MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[CARIIS]

Driver charged:

The definition of depraved-heart murder per Black's Law Dictionary is "unintentional murder (18c) 1. A killing for which malice is implied because the person acted with intent to cause serious physical injury or knew that the conduct was substantially certain to cause death or serious physical injury. In some jurisdictions, this term is applied generally to several grades of killings without express intent. Also termed unintended murder."

and upon rereading she actually stated what happened:

"Following transport from Baker Street, Mr. Gray suffered a severe and critical neck injury as a result of being handcuffed, shackled by his feet and unrestrained inside of the BPD wagon," Mosby said.

....she referred to the Baltimore City Sheriff's Office. Now that's been a very, very debatable issue in terms of the jurisdiction that the sheriff has coinciding with the Police Department, so it's very interesting that she reached out to the Sheriff's Office of Baltimore City, who is elected and independent of the Police Department and independent of the mayor, and whatever investigative tools that she used, it appears that she did a very comprehensive investigation."

http://www.wbaltv.com/news/baltimore-prosecutor-to-hold-press-conference/32684036

 

[popsicle]

rivero@wusa9 ‏@rjrivero 20m20 minutes ago
NEW: Court records show 6 @BaltimorePolice Officers charged in death of Freddie Gray made bail & will be in court May 27, 1:30pm.

 

[SStarr33]

Here is the Hannity interview with the cop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqNldpeLSYU

 

[SStarr33]

So the cop in the Hannity interview is saying that Donta Allen was in the back of the van.

 

[popsicle]

[h=1]Across Country, Police Scrutinized After Baltimore Arrests[/h]
Former law enforcement officials, prosecutors and defense attorneys say the intense scrutiny being cast on the behavior of police departments nationwide — especially regarding their treatment of minorities — could lead to a temptation to stop pursuing certain crimes and suspects rather than risk accusations of
misconduct.

"The biggest danger is that the police officer will not properly perform his duties," said Robert Leight, a former detective in Pennsylvania who has worked for the FBI and as a federal prosecutor and defense attorney. "It puts him at risk, it puts the other officers around him at risk, and it puts the public at risk. ... A police officer must react instinctively as he has been trained. If a police officer first thinks about what liabilities he will be facing, it's too late."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/country-police-scrutinized-baltimore-arrests-30751981

 

[abstr]

http://www.citypaper.com/blogs/the-news-hole/bcp-blog-22003-20140620,0,7096131.story

This is an older story on Ms. Bledsoe but I found it interesting because in it then candidate Mosby talks about the need for a special prosecutor, something she is against now.
"Why wouldn't Gregg Bernstein bring in a special prosecutor for this case? Why would he dismiss the attorney leading the investigation into Quick days before reaching a decision? He is a personal friend and former attorney for Captain Quick who looked the other way when his buddy got caught stealing from the City," said Marilyn Mosby, former prosecutor and candidate for Baltimore City State's Attorney.

 

[ANonyMs]

Hoping some of you here who are experienced at breaking things down can apply a little legal analysis here for me. I realize this is an opinion piece but I thought it was interesting. The author believes overcharging can help aid in pressuring defendants in to talking.

Wouldn't overcharging also leave room for negotiating plea agreements? I guess I always assumed as much.

http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/05/baltimore-police-vs-freddie-gray/

 

[BirdycatNY]

Bay News 9 ‏@BN9 10m10 minutes ago
Thousands expected to march in Baltimore today for what's now being called a "victory rally." http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2015/5/2/baltimore_rallies.html …

I saw a tweet this morning that PSP are sending police to help out in Blt.

Whoever is initiating these peaceful protests better not mislead or give false hope to people. It will be absolutely crushing to people who do not know better, if the facts and evidence show these officers did nothing wrong and are acquitted. This seems awfully premature and irresponsible to me to have "victory" protest and sounds a little bit like propaganda, but I don't know may be the protestors fully understand the judicial process and that acquittal is possible. Maybe the protest is just for "victory" of police answering in court, idk.

 

[CARIIS]

Whoever is initiating these peaceful protests better not mislead or give false hope to people. It will be absolutely crushing to people who do not know better, if the facts and evidence show these officers did nothing wrong and are acquitted. This seems awfully premature and irresponsible to me to have "victory" protest and sounds a little bit like propaganda, but I don't know may be the protestors fully understand the judicial process and that acquittal is possible. Maybe the protest is just for "victory" of police answering in court, idk.

6]Whoever is initiating these peaceful protests better not mislead or give false hope to people. It will be absolutely crushing to people who do not know better, if the facts and evidence show these officers did nothing wrong and are acquitted. This seems awfully premature and irresponsible to me to have "victory" protest and sounds a little bit like propaganda, but I don't know may be the protestors fully understand the judicial process and that acquittal is possible. Maybe the protest is just for "victory" of police answering in court, idk.[/QUOTE]

I worked with this population. Their experiences with the white system are totally different. They are typically charged, arrested,plea and placed in a jail cell. They do not have the resources to dance with system.

On the other hand , the more fortunate, think we have a system about guilt or innocence. We have nothing of the sort. It is about, even when innocent (why we are seeing so many people being exonerated years later) plea bargaining away the threat of possible jail time. That is all it is - noone looks at anything but the charge,(actual statue) previous criminal history, and bank account which indicates what caliber lawyer the accused can purchase. Perry Mason is long gone.

A colleague of mine husband is a prominent judge. I dined with them often. Here is how it really works, over cocktails, or extended vacations. They all know each personally judges, prosecutors, defense attorneys, and often their kids all know each other. Think locker room with a scoreboard and you are on the correct track!

each judge, each prosecutor, each defense attorney has their own proclivities. Some are real LE oriented, some are real civil rights oriented, some had a family member killed by a drunk driver, or a rape somewhere etc. Each one of them fully know how one others leans, thinks, feels and sentences.

If we took identical twins, commit the identical crime, and they had different prosecutor, judge, defense attorney they would each have completely different outcomes.

In the same vein everyone else knows which defense attorneys will really take some thing to trial or not. So its all, from the start got nothing to do with guilt innocence. Its a crap shoot, focused on clearing the docket, scoring a point for the prosecutor and clearing the desk of the defense attorney for a new retainer opening.

Here is how it really works:

Peter Prosecutor (ha), Donny defense attorney, and John judge, and a couple of others meet for happy hour. Lot of justice is done on holidays (boating is popular!) After the first drink doing the my wife is shopping so much, sports, how much a car costs, last vacation memories justice begins when the second round is ordered.

the defendant last name is smith

peter prose says to Donny def lawyer - "Ill give you 18 months probation and 100 hours of community services on Smith".

Everyone at the tables chuckles a dash, throws their head back in a nod like fashion, takes a sip of their cocktail. Think buying a car - everyone knows the first "offer" is B?

A small dramatic pause, Donny the def lawyer smiles and tells peter -" I just don’t not know what I is going to do with you peter" and says "you know damn well I am not taking that on smith, I ll give you 75 hours community services on smith"

the tables chuckles, heads lean back, another sip of the cocktail , and another small pause for dramatic flair

frank ( everyone friend, a defence attorney,) at the table chimes in with , "you guys are sitting in front of John, you know he is not going to go for that "

another chuckle, heads back, sip of cocktail and now justice begans

Pl note there has been NO discussion of the case, what happened, etc etc --none

Peter the prosecutor, reminds Donny the defense attorney that johnny the judge is going to want at least 60 days jail time

a more somber chuckle, another round of drinks is ordered

peter counter offers - lets see if johnny the judge will take 30 days jail time, and half a year of probation.

pause for sip of cocktail

Donny the defense attorney says " OK ill take it to my client and get back to you"

In addition some defense attorneys bug some judges, vice versa, there are lots of histories between one another on past cases (think locker room again) all which play out in each case.

In reality it is about clearing the judges docket, the proscetor wants victory, and the defense attorney is looking to increase his hourly fees,

next cocktail and case...............................

It is not a Justice system it is legal system --- there is, IMO, a world of difference.......

 

[SugarQueen]

She said Gray was carrying a folding knife, which is legal in Maryland.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...e07e7a-efe6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html

After the first stop, Gray “suffered a severe and critical neck injury as a result of being handcuffed, shackled by his feet and unrestrained” by a seat belt, she said.

bbm

She said Gray suffered a critical neck injury after the van left Baker Street.

bbm

The van eventually arrived at the Western District police station, where officers left the ailing Gray in the van while the other prisoner was processed, Mosby said. By the time White and two other officers, who were not charged, went to remove Gray from the van, he had suffered cardiac arrest and “was no longer breathing at all.”

bbm

For clarification :
A spring assist knife IS a folding knife. Here is BALTIMORE'S law on " switchblades, along with the description in question.

59-22. Switch-blade knives.
(a) Possession or sale, etc., prohibited.
It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, carry, or possess any knife with an automatic spring or
other device for opening and/or closing the blade, commonly known as a switch-blade knife
ftp://law.resource.org/pub/us/code/m...article.19.pdf
We will have to wait and see if we get more information on the knife he was carrying before we know if it is legal or not.

 

[Elley Mae]

Nero and Miller find a knife clipped to the inside of Gray's pants pocket. (Mosby says the knife was not a switchblade, but was "folded in," which is legal under Maryland law.)

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ba...r-marilyn-mosby-lays-out-chain-events-n352096

He is first placed on the sidewalk, then ordered back down on his stomach. He begins flailing his legs and screams. The officers put him in a restraining technique known as a leg lace and hold him "against his will" until a police wagon arrives. The incident is witnessed by bystanders and caught on cellphone video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FErwbC09ZsI


http://www.knifeup.com/maryland-knife-laws/

Maryland’s knife laws are somewhat archaic and cryptic.

bbm, (ii) “Weapon” does not include: 1. a handgun; or 2. a penknife without a switchblade.

 

[SugarQueen]

I think there is some difference between the descriptions on Marylands knife law vs Baltimores knife law?? I posted the info, and link for baltimore, anyone have the same info for Maryland ? ( I'm looking for the actual, complete law). Thanks

**i guess my question is shouldn't we be looking at Baltimore's actual knife law?

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I think there is some difference between the descriptions on Marylands knife law vs Baltimores knife law?? I posted the info, and link for baltimore, anyone have the same info for Maryland ? ( I'm looking for the actual, complete law). Thanks

**i guess my question is shouldn't we be looking at Baltimore's actual knife law?

We have looked up MD knife laws & they are purposefully written to be ambiguous...there's interpretations based on concealed knives, pen knives, names of various knives that ok or not ok,
And there's regs based on what county you live in MD as well.
So it's more complicated than what we would like it to be.
No fault of ours.

 

[Woodland]

[h=1]Across Country, Police Scrutinized After Baltimore Arrests[/h]
Former law enforcement officials, prosecutors and defense attorneys say the intense scrutiny being cast on the behavior of police departments nationwide — especially regarding their treatment of minorities — could lead to a temptation to stop pursuing certain crimes and suspects rather than risk accusations of
misconduct.

"The biggest danger is that the police officer will not properly perform his duties," said Robert Leight, a former detective in Pennsylvania who has worked for the FBI and as a federal prosecutor and defense attorney. "It puts him at risk, it puts the other officers around him at risk, and it puts the public at risk. ... A police officer must react instinctively as he has been trained. If a police officer first thinks about what liabilities he will be facing, it's too late."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/country-police-scrutinized-baltimore-arrests-30751981

Can't help but read an underlying threat from LE in this article. No solutions available? No compromise anywhere?

 

[Sonya610]

Whoever is initiating these peaceful protests better not mislead or give false hope to people. It will be absolutely crushing to people who do not know better, if the facts and evidence show these officers did nothing wrong and are acquitted.

I think the prosecutor should be blamed for misleading the masses, not the ralley organizers.

Starr posted this video with Alan Dershowitz yesterday and it is worth a watch. Dershowitz says that it appears the officers were WAY over charged in an attempt to pander to the mob. In addition he said based on the evidence that is available all of the officers will likely walk and that will cause more riots in the future.

https://youtu.be/I0Ek17aXyx8

 

[CARIIS]

Here is the Hannity interview with the cop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqNldpeLSYU

It was interesting but glosses over some signfigant facts. Effecting an arrest "without incident" where that is indivicual is now deceased just does not seem all that honest to me. We know for a fact that at least 1/6 of the LE folks involved knew about the second stop, attempted to keep it a secret - if all is aboveboard there is no reason to have attempted, except for something nefarious, to lie about what happened. It is that simple. All behavrior has meaning.

I do not know, but I would doubt that transporting someone to jail does not typically include 4 stops (exclude the pickup of the other one) which clearly indicates that something from the get go was aray. That is just logical. In light of the fact that from the beginning excruciating pain is heard, in light of the fact that he is now dead, it would seem prudent to conclude that his multiple requests for medical assistance were clearly valid.

They lied about him being inpossession of an illigal knife, the hid information, they ignored pleas for help, and I am guessing here that the medical examiner concluded that his injuries were not self inflicted, the only conclusion one can come up with, IMO, is that from the first takedown on the street, to pulling into the station , to never regain consciousness again - seems pretty strighforward.

ALthough his voice was disgusied his hatred for the folks who struggle in that neighborhood to live is clearly expressed. What LE does not get is "those people" his inferance not mine, are people, humans, his disdain is congruent with ignoring screams of pain, tossing a human in the back of van like a box of sneakers, hearing noises, and instead of going back there and fastening his seat belt they install more things which further restrict an obviously destressed human being thrown around and possibly hurting self.

So what now, as humans if some human being , in some circumstnace, is trying to self harm, we just say the heck with it -- they were doing it themsleves. They are talking like , Freddie did it to himslef, and if that true (dont buy it) it is acceptable to just ignore it and do nothing to intervene to prevent further self harm.

That is naussating, and folks who endorse those notions and or beliefs should not be it LE- they should be driving a semi truck or bulldozer wherein those beleifs do not impact another homosapian.

on the lied about mystery shop and humane person would have put on approriate gear for some salavia and put the kid in a seat belt - that is why they were there. Peroid

 

[Sonya610]

On a side note one of the stories featuring hte burned out CVS pharmacy mentioned that the city had worked hard to try and get larger stores (like grocery stores) to move into that neighborhood.

CVS is not likely to rebuild, and you can be sure no other large chains are going to open stores there any time soon. When the neighborhoods end up with only liquor stores and overpriced tiny corner stores, when they can't buy groceries or medications without traveling for miles, who are they gonna blame? Surely not themselves.

The "good" citizens of that community will suffer along with the bad, but then again the good citizens could have stood up and prevented some of the looting if they wanted to but they didn't, so I don't feel all that sorry for them.

 

[DebinGA]

Can't help but read an underlying threat from LE in this article. No solutions available? No compromise anywhere?

Just sounds like common sense to me.

 

[CARIIS]

Can't help but read an underlying threat from LE in this article. No solutions available? No compromise anywhere?

"The biggest danger is that the police officer will not properly perform his duties just like in any employee/employer sitution - if they start doing that terminate em- simple -

and as far as the war on drugs goes, "stop pursuing certain crimes and suspects (africian american) might not be all that bad thing

 

[CARIIS]

I think there is some difference between the descriptions on Marylands knife law vs Baltimores knife law?? I posted the info, and link for baltimore, anyone have the same info for Maryland ? ( I'm looking for the actual, complete law). Thanks

**i guess my question is shouldn't we be looking at Baltimore's actual knife law?

the way I understand this neigborhood its a tough one......maybe police should be chasing people who are clearly doing something --the way LE describes the neighborhood, one would think there is "enough" to do without chasing after some guy, who has a rap sheet, not wanting to go chit and chat with LE!