MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[ShadyLady]

So do I. And so does the SA. And FG is the VICTIM here and the posts lauding the heroic police are frankly, inappropriate.

We get it. Some of you will always think the cops are right. But it doesn't belong in Freddy's thread.

Are you new to WS? Some of us think we should wait for more evidence before saying any LE is guilty of a crime. This thread is exactly where we can discuss it.

BTY, if anyone has been arrested for political reasons, left to dry and docked pay, I say they can be a victim, too. For now I think Cray was a victim of his environment, but jury is still out on if he was a victim of these 6 police officers.

 

[Curious Guy]

How can one claim there was a pattern of illegal police stops without investigating first? Maybe there is and maybe there isn't but to make the claim is leading to a premature judgement.

I hope if the investigation is carried forward and we hear about complaints from witnesses that we also hear the officers side of the story. There is two sides to every story, I didn't hear that in the Ferguson investigation.

How you ask? Haven't you heard? The new standard is presume that LE violate criminals "civil rights " every day all across the nation. I imagine this will be a highly publicized and politicized "investigation". They will probably uncover years old incidents of racists joke being told by some LE. Then a press conference will be held and an entire department will be demeaned and victory and justice for all will be declared.

Unless the officer/s are innocent. No press conference to apologize for rushing to judgement will be held.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

All very much JMO

 

[DebinGA]

Mayor R-B said today police would be wearing body cams by the end of the year. Here are her thoughts about them last Feb.:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-body-camera-report-20150218-story.html

 

[Curious Guy]

Are you new to WS? Some of us think we should wait for more evidence before saying any LE is guilty of a crime. This thread is exactly where we can discuss it.

BTY, if anyone has been arrested for political reasons, left to dry and docked pay, I say they can be a victim, too. For now I think Cray was a victim of his environment, but jury is still out on if he was a victim of these 6 police officers.

Very well said Shady

 

[krimekat]

Nah, I'm not over-dramatic. I'm just tired of people conveniently overlooking the fact that a human can't crush their own voicebox and sever their own spine while in handcuffs. Someone did that to him, but we want to focus on his little pointy knife. JMO.

Because officers are expected to protect us, even if we're in custody for breaking the law. Protect and serve. So when they are or may be responsible for the violent death of a subject, it's highly disturbing. More disturbing than 2 criminals battling it out.

To deny the facts would be illogical - Spock

I want to be privy to as many "facts" before making a determination on vilifying 6 officers of the law -- they were doing their jobs. FG was a known drug dealer to them. Also, I want to know if the knife is illegal or legal which IMHO nullifies some charges. More information is necessary IMHO & I also believe SA overcharged & charges will be dropped & Baltimore will burn.

FG death is tragic. Just because it happened in LE custody doesn't mean LE murdered him. I have seen some people truly hurt themselves in handcuffs especially while on drugs (and note FG had some issues stemming from lead). Waiting for AT LEAST the autopsy to be given to the masses.

need to see fact of a severed spine & crushed larynx -- lawyers lie all the time & get paid for it

 

[krimekat]

Maybe that Freddy would still be alive but for his time in custody?

I was thinking that FG would be alive today if he was earlier incarcerated based on all the charges he accumulated

 

[DebinGA]

The Baltimore medical examiner ruled FG's death a homicide. I doubt that means a crime was necessarily committed or was the result of an intentional act, but that someone/s actions led to the death of someone else. Right/Wrong? Does "homicide" automatically indicate wrongdoing occurred?

Ofc. Goodson is charged with second degree murder with a "depraved heart" (depraved indifference). Which I've seen described by a prosecutor as: "the defendant caused loss of life intentionally and while showing a shocking indifference to human life."

Whoa. Is there enough evidence to support that? I seriously doubt it, and there's no excuse for Mosby charging anyone with anything she knows she can't prove imo.

 

[katydid23]

OT: We have lost another officer in the line of duty.

This happened in the same town in Idaho where Shasta and Dylan Greone lived.

He had been on the police force for 16 years.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2015/may/05/cda-police-officer-dies-shooting/

Here is the thread for that brave fallen officer:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...e-officer-shot-killed&p=11751953#post11751953

:rose: :star: :rose:

 

[krimekat]

Wow -- talking head lawyers are really tearing into M Mosby's charging documents, probable cause statement & the fact that innocent people were charged (the 2 non-LE with similar names)

Sounds like the Police Union attorneys totally have their ducks in a row unlike the State . . . I cannot imagine how this is going to play out! I mean, Law is the Law regardless what one wants to believe is true or "right" -- I'd HATE to be the Judge on this bench.

Cannot wait to discuss the case (if it gets that far) but the damage is done to the 6 officers -- their careers are over & I foresee Baltimore being bankrupt & unable to pay out HUGE sums of $$$$$$$

I cannot believe this is America

 

[dandy]

paige crenshaw? was interviewed by cnn . . . let me see if the video's up yet

 

[krimekat]

paige crenshaw? was interviewed by cnn . . . let me see if the video's up yet

OMG - the media/CNN is recycling through the initial Ferguson liars?

 

[dandy]

OMG - the media/CNN is recycling through the initial Ferguson liars?

lol - no! maybe i got the name wrong - the former atty who wrote editorial in yesterday's baltimore sun.

can't find the interview yet - but heard her voice on radio - i think it was brooke baldwin who interviewed her

edit - got 1/2 right/wrong . . . Page Croyder

 

[DebinGA]

Mayor R-B promised today that BPD officers will be wearing body cams by the end of the year. Back in Feb. she expressed concern for residents' privacy and suggested a remedy would be having officers remind residents they encounter that the camera is "on" and having officers turn camera "off" when asked.

 

[vanlutz]

I am speculating, because no one knows what actually happened. But, I do think it's been stated the only injury Gray sustained was the spinal fracture. That injury coincides with a bolt in the van. The crushed wind pipe that's been reported is not true.

Again, this is SPECULATION.

 

[DebinGA]

I imagine across America a mass spike in LE disability retirements citing PTSD from the last year's episodes alone. I bet the current LE standards will have to be reviewed and changed to fill the many vacant spots. When I lived in NC a few years ago, LE new hires had to have a college degree. I bet that will change now.

 

[jjenny]

I was thinking that FG would be alive today if he was earlier incarcerated based on all the charges he accumulated

Most of the charges didn't stick.

 

[DebinGA]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/22/us/baltimore-freddie-gray-what-we-know/

This article gives a general idea of FG's arrest history. He seems to belong on the lower rung of criminal miscreants ... at least in Baltimore. No one was forced to buy what he was selling.

 

[KMouse]

I would like to hear the radio communication audio if there is any.

 

[bettybaby00]

The Baltimore medical examiner ruled FG's death a homicide. I doubt that means a crime was necessarily committed or was the result of an intentional act, but that someone/s actions led to the death of someone else. Right/Wrong? Does "homicide" automatically indicate wrongdoing occurred?

Ofc. Goodson is charged with second degree murder with a "depraved heart" (depraved indifference). Which I've seen described by a prosecutor as: "the defendant caused loss of life intentionally and while showing a shocking indifference to human life."

Whoa. Is there enough evidence to support that? I seriously doubt it, and there's no excuse for Mosby charging anyone with anything she knows she can't prove imo.

No homicide does not equal murder. I can't google Atm but there is definitely a difference and Mosby's statement "the ME has ruled his death a homicide" is misleading to many. Again, IMO this was
Purposeful.

And the Mayors comments last fall re: body cameras was ludicrous

MOOOO

 

[Minette]

I LOVED Mosby's speech. I truly thought it was brilliant. She and her staff took the time to charge each person appropriately with what can be argued given the absolute letter of the law. If the speed limit is 25 and the guy did 30 he's guilty of something. Or is he?

Her speech and the subsequent charges squashed the rioting.

Some of these officers are absolutely guilty of some of the charges. Not seat belting him proves that. But, is it manslaughter or murder? In order to prove that, it has to be shown that the officers knew that it was likely Freddie would die. Unfortunately, that can be shown otherwise, because everyone screams about "rough rides". Out of the thousands that have been in paddy wagons how many have died from rough rides? That's not proving "likely" that's more or less proving the opposite. Supposedly the van has a black box of sorts, so we'll have to see.

The officers will have at their defense Freddie's actions. His screaming, dragging his feet, then his quietness and standing before being put in the wagon. His having to be restrained. The possibility of his having drugs in his system.

She stopped the rioting for now. But, if that knife turns out to be illegal, and the two officers whose crimes were illegal arrest and unlawful imprisonment have the charges are dropped, what happens then?

It's a brilliant speech if she wins 100%. That ain't happening.

Respectfully BBM. If the DA in the Michael Brown had thrown the book at Darren Wilson for murder or assault it might have stopped the rioting, too. But those charges, as shown by the subsequent St. Louis & DOJ investigations would have been bogus. I have not made up my mind in the Freddie Gray case as to whether any of the officers have been charged inappropriately, but if the only way to stop rioting and violence is to wrongly or over-charge officers then those doing the rioting are not in any way concerned with getting 'justice.' And to pander to violence ultimately perverts justice for everyone. IMO.