CONVICTION OVERTURNED MD - Hae Min Lee, 17, Baltimore, 13 Jan 1999

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IMO the humanity talk Jay spit out ,came straight out SK and Adnan's conversation.

He lied and did hear the podcast to see what Adnan had to say and then he spit it right out back at this reporter who did not know any better. SAD.
 
I can't believe how many people are willing to believe Jay over Adnan. Because what it really comes down to is who you believe, since there's no actual evidence. Not only does Jay lie, he changes his story 5 times in the course of events before the trial and now his new interview makes 6. So if he's telling "the truth" now since he's all grown up and not scared anymore, what does it mean that the sequence of events he's giving now completely blows up all the cell tower evidence the state made their case on?

I'm honestly actually scared that people can be fooled by someone like Jay so easily. There's not enough evidence to say either of them did this but why is it automatically believed that Jay knew all he knew just because he was an accomplice and it's out of the question he had all the info because he was the one who actually did it?

There's NO EVIDENCE!! I'm not yelling at anyone here but after all the reading I've done I cannot believe how many people are absolutely convinced Adnan is guilty simply because Jay says so. Truly scary.

I'm sorry, but again, the statement that there was no evidence is completely false. There was plenty of evidence presented besides Jays testimony.

Now, you might not be convinced by the evidence, but that's not at all the same as saying there was none.



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I'm honestly actually scared that people can be fooled by someone like Jay so easily. There's not enough evidence to say either of them did this but why is it automatically believed that Jay knew all he knew just because he was an accomplice and it's out of the question he had all the info because he was the one who actually did it?

Wanted to address this portion.

We can turn this around quite easily and say, "I can't believe anyone is fooled by someone like Adnan so easily. He talks and talks and talks and says not much of anything at all. Frankly, the idea that, as he claims, adnan remembers nothing at all about that day is such BS that again, I can't believe anyone falls for it."

I think we need to move along from insinuations that people with views opposite our own are scary stupid or foolish.


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Y
Wanted to address this portion.

We can turn this around quite easily and say, "I can't believe anyone is fooled by someone like Adnan so easily. He talks and talks and talks and says not much of anything at all. Frankly, the idea that, as he claims, adnan remembers nothing at all about that day is such BS that again, I can't believe anyone falls for it."

I think we need to move along from insinuations that people with views opposite our own are scary stupid or foolish.


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I apologize for the rude tone of my post. I don't think that people with opinions that don't agree with mine are stupid or scary. To add context, much of my frustration comes from r.e.d.d.i.t posts I've been reading where they seem to have no critical thinking abilities. I'm used to a websleuths crowd where the discussions are much more intelligent and based on evidence.

This is so different because essentially people's opinions are being formed on which person one chooses to believe. What surprises me is the amount of people willing to believe Jay even after its been proven that he lies, he was a drug dealer, and he admits to helping cover up a murder and bury a body. Yet the argument is that Adnan doesn't remember things from that day so he must have killed her. He was stoned for at least part of the day, and I'm assuming he was often stoned in the days before and after her disappearance, making his recall less than reliable. It's not unreasonable that he doesn't remember that day.

Six weeks ago today was Nov 19. I can look at my calendar and see I went to work, but I don't know for sure what time I went in. I would have left by 1 because my kids would have needed to be picked up by 1:30. Looking at old texts reminds me my sister and I were planning to go to Hobby Lobby but changed our plan due to an event my sister forgot. Which probably means I was home all evening with my kids. My bank records might help a little.

A day with a significant event happened for me back in August when my aunt passed away, and I remember even less of that day than Nov 19th. And I wasn't even stoned for any of the time :)

If I was being accused of a crime, I might not remember enough to say with certainty what happened on days so long ago. I sure hope I couldn't be convicted for not remembering just because a known liar says I did it.
 
I think that Adnan asked - or paid - Jay to either murder Hae, or abduct her and help him to murder her. Afterwards, I believe Jay reflected upon the events and realized that Adnan had alibis (track practice and mosque) that could leave Jay to take the fall. I think Jay was behind the anonymous call that implicated Adnan, and owned up to just enough culpability that Adnan couldn't refute it without implicating himself in the crime.
JMO
 
I feel for Jay, he'll be boxing at shadows for years over this all coming back up.
 
I don't feel sorry for Jay. I feel sorry for the girl he buried in the cold.
 
I do feel bad for Jay, because if he did not murder Hae (and I don't believe for a second that he did), and he tried to make it right by testifying (admittedly while still trying to protect himself, his fam and friends) and has indeed put crime behind him (and I'm guessing he has, by his description of his children, his "typical suburban" wife, etc), then from his point of view, all of this is coming back up solely to help a murderer who is where he belongs. It doesn't help Hae, it doesn't help Hae's family, and in fact it actively harms them, as well as Jay and as well his wife and children (the latter of whom are completely innocent and removed from this tragedy).


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Y

I apologize for the rude tone of my post. I don't think that people with opinions that don't agree with mine are stupid or scary. To add context, much of my frustration comes from r.e.d.d.i.t posts I've been reading where they seem to have no critical thinking abilities. I'm used to a websleuths crowd where the discussions are much more intelligent and based on evidence.

This is so different because essentially people's opinions are being formed on which person one chooses to believe. What surprises me is the amount of people willing to believe Jay even after its been proven that he lies, he was a drug dealer, and he admits to helping cover up a murder and bury a body. Yet the argument is that Adnan doesn't remember things from that day so he must have killed her. He was stoned for at least part of the day, and I'm assuming he was often stoned in the days before and after her disappearance, making his recall less than reliable. It's not unreasonable that he doesn't remember that day.

Six weeks ago today was Nov 19. I can look at my calendar and see I went to work, but I don't know for sure what time I went in. I would have left by 1 because my kids would have needed to be picked up by 1:30. Looking at old texts reminds me my sister and I were planning to go to Hobby Lobby but changed our plan due to an event my sister forgot. Which probably means I was home all evening with my kids. My bank records might help a little.

A day with a significant event happened for me back in August when my aunt passed away, and I remember even less of that day than Nov 19th. And I wasn't even stoned for any of the time :)

If I was being accused of a crime, I might not remember enough to say with certainty what happened on days so long ago. I sure hope I couldn't be convicted for not remembering just because a known liar says I did it.

I don't think anyone thinks that adnans memory loss means he murdered Hae. Rather, that convenient lack of memory, plus all the other circumstantial evidence, looks mighty suspicious.

I will agree with you that the posts on reddit are approach YouTube and Yahoo levels of stupid - on both sides. A lot of the pro-Adnan crowd is downright ugly towards Jay, which is scary because he has a wife and children who do not deserve to live in fear because some groupies have decided that he is free game. Some of the Adnan is guilty crowd is meanwhile focusing on tearing down rabia to the point of making misogynistic and quasi-racist/anti-Muslim comments. It's quite ugly all around.


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The court transcripts are a must read.

Debbie places Adnan in the school at 245. Which I somehow missed. page 338. In case anyone wants to check that out. Also the jury question on 339 in interesting, However this is the first trial so that doesnt matter but I see why CG might have thought it was not going well ,when actualy it looks as if it is going pretty well for Adnan at this point.
 
"BALTIMORE (CN) - Exonerated after 10 years in prison for murder, a man sued Baltimore and its Police Department for what he calls "one of the most shameful episodes of police misconduct" in city history."]BALTIMORE (CN) - Exonerated after 10 years in prison for murder, a man sued Baltimore and its Police Department for what he calls "one of the most shameful episodes of police misconduct" in city history.
http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/03/05/55427.htm

Detective Ritz is named in this shameful episode. Which makes this case more disturbing.

Also it seems Sarah K. really could have dug and found out alot more information than she did.

Funny how this Podcast really makes these real people seem not as real...even though I know they are. I follow cases all the time,they all feel like real people ,but this podcast has given this case a TV mini series type feeling.
 
Are they online? If so where?

I would really like to read them
 
Are they online? If so where?

I would really like to read them

You mean the series transcripts? Go to http://www.***********/r/serialpodcast/ (ETA ugh WS bleeps the reddit website, but it's reddit dot com) and look in the links on the left column for episode transcript links. These links go to the This American Life transcript section which hasn't got Serial episodes separated from TAL episodes. (If you haven't listened or read TAL, though, please do!)

Look for this part:
y9ftUG6.png
 
I think Rosie_lee was referring to the appellate documents which gives the name of Mr. S. Thank you though for those links. I need to read them!
You mean the series transcripts? Go to http://www.***********/r/serialpodcast/ (ETA ugh WS bleeps the reddit website, but it's reddit dot com) and look in the links on the left column for episode transcript links. These links go to the This American Life transcript section which hasn't got Serial episodes separated from TAL episodes. (If you haven't listened or read TAL, though, please do!)

Look for this part:
y9ftUG6.png
 
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