Found Deceased MD - Rachel Morin, 37, left for walk on Ma & Pa Trail 6pm, car found at Williams St entrance, Bel Air, 5 Aug 2023 #3 *Arrest*

[nhmemorymaker]

Just start a thread! Maybe put it under Missing Persons Resources.

wanna be more specific...
Because (in the back of my head) I feel like I want to find ways
to get more funding to these organizations.
And all that is too messy for one thread...

 

[steeltowngirl]

wanna be more specific...
Because (in the back of my head) I feel like I want to find ways
to get more funding to these organizations.
And all that is too messy for one thread...

Ooohh. I see. I was thinking just a thread to discuss the use of GG for cases. Sorry for misunderstanding!

 

[Dotta]

"How Police Finally Tracked Down Alleged Killer of Rachel Morin, ​

Mom of 5 ​

Who Vanished While Out on a Run."​

How Police Finally Tracked Down Alleged Killer of Rachel Morin, Mom of 5 Who Vanished While Out on a Run

Victor Martinez-Hernandez was arrested on June 14 in connection with the August 2023 death of Rachel Morin.

people.com

 

[nhmemorymaker]

"How Police Finally Tracked Down Alleged Killer of Rachel Morin, ​

Mom of 5 ​

Who Vanished While Out on a Run."​

View attachment 513196

How Police Finally Tracked Down Alleged Killer of Rachel Morin, Mom of 5 Who Vanished While Out on a Run

Victor Martinez-Hernandez was arrested on June 14 in connection with the August 2023 death of Rachel Morin.

people.com

<modsnip>
The only tidbit, if true, is the statement of DIRECT CONNECTION to the relatives in MD.
But how. Is this what Othram found through through their Gg. If not, this is just more confusing information

 

[Cedars]

<modsnip>
The only tidbit, if true, is the statement of DIRECT CONNECTION to the relatives in MD.
But how. Is this what Othram found through through their Gg. If not, this is just more confusing information

I agree, the dots do not precisely connect up in that story.

However, this paragraph from the People article is interesting:
"Police then conducted further DNA tests that came up with results of a possible relative of the unknown person. After an “investigation into the family lineage,” police were able to identify Martinez-Hernandez as the suspect."

To begin with, we heard very early on that he was linked to the LA case.

So, they may have already been looking for him with the DNA from that case.

Either way, I think that when they put his DNA into CODIS, they found a match with a close relative: say, a cousin or some such, who had been sentenced in the past. This 'cousin' or whoever, was from El Salvador.

If it turned out that way, I think LE (FBI) used a strategy of interviewing the family members about the family tree - in the US and then in El Salvador - and collecting DNA samples. Then they finally matched to a direct relative in El Salvador (parent or sibling), and learned which members of that family were living in the US, and with which relatives. At that point, they collected actual DNA from his hosts, and they'd got him.

Though, to be sure, once they located him, they'd need to collect a sample directly from him to be sure.

JMO

ETA, on second thought, I wonder whether they were collecting voluntary DNA from relatives, or just collecting it, since surely word would get back to him.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I agree, the dots do not precisely connect up in that story.

However, this paragraph from the People article is interesting:
"Police then conducted further DNA tests that came up with results of a possible relative of the unknown person. After an “investigation into the family lineage,” police were able to identify Martinez-Hernandez as the suspect."

To begin with, we heard very early on that he was linked to the LA case.

So, they may have already been looking for him with the DNA from that case.

Either way, I think that when they put his DNA into CODIS, they found a match with a close relative: say, a cousin or some such, who had been sentenced in the past. This 'cousin' or whoever, was from El Salvador.

If it turned out that way, I think LE (FBI) used a strategy of interviewing the family members about the family tree - in the US and then in El Salvador - and collecting DNA samples. Then they finally matched to a direct relative in El Salvador (parent or sibling), and learned which members of that family were living in the US, and with which relatives. At that point, they collected actual DNA from his hosts, and they'd got him.

Though, to be sure, once they located him, they'd need to collect a sample directly from him to be sure.

JMO

ETA, on second thought, I wonder whether they were collecting voluntary DNA from relatives, or just collecting it, since surely word would get back to him.

This is a very good point:
"Either way, I think that when they put his DNA into CODIS, they found a match with a close relative: say, a cousin or some such, who had been sentenced in the past. This 'cousin' or whoever, was from El Salvador."

At first I thought data was not actually entered into Codis until a conviction has been made... so that threw me off for a while.

 

[Joe Friday]

I agree, the dots do not precisely connect up in that story.

However, this paragraph from the People article is interesting:
"Police then conducted further DNA tests that came up with results of a possible relative of the unknown person. After an “investigation into the family lineage,” police were able to identify Martinez-Hernandez as the suspect."

To begin with, we heard very early on that he was linked to the LA case.

So, they may have already been looking for him with the DNA from that case.

Either way, I think that when they put his DNA into CODIS, they found a match with a close relative: say, a cousin or some such, who had been sentenced in the past. This 'cousin' or whoever, was from El Salvador.

If it turned out that way, I think LE (FBI) used a strategy of interviewing the family members about the family tree - in the US and then in El Salvador - and collecting DNA samples. Then they finally matched to a direct relative in El Salvador (parent or sibling), and learned which members of that family were living in the US, and with which relatives. At that point, they collected actual DNA from his hosts, and they'd got him.

Though, to be sure, once they located him, they'd need to collect a sample directly from him to be sure.

JMO

ETA, on second thought, I wonder whether they were collecting voluntary DNA from relatives, or just collecting it, since surely word would get back to him.

I doubt CODIS looks for matches with a close relatives. That is what the genealogy matching labs do.

The most likely scenario is, DNA found on Rachel was matched to a relative in Maryland who had submitted DNA to one of the genealogy databases. LE went and talked with that relative, who said that Victor was staying with them. LE obtained some of Victors clothing that was left behind at this relative house, which they used to obtain a positive match to the DNA found on Rachel. LE then knew Victor was the perpetrator.

 

[Quill]

I doubt CODIS looks for matches with a close relatives. That is what the genealogy matching labs do.

The most likely scenario is, DNA found on Rachel was matched to a relative in Maryland who had submitted DNA to one of the genealogy databases. LE went and talked with that relative, who said that Victor was staying with them. LE obtained some of Victors clothing that was left behind at this relative house, which they used to obtain a positive match to the DNA found on Rachel. LE then knew Victor was the perpetrator.

My understanding is that Codis can be used in that way in certain states, but not all. Someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong. There was a case in my state that caused the family to campaign to change the laws to allow this. I don't think they ever made that happen, but the horrific murders were solved and the killer caught through familial dna.

 

[Cedars]

I doubt CODIS looks for matches with a close relatives. That is what the genealogy matching labs do.

The most likely scenario is, DNA found on Rachel was matched to a relative in Maryland who had submitted DNA to one of the genealogy databases. LE went and talked with that relative, who said that Victor was staying with them. LE obtained some of Victors clothing that was left behind at this relative house, which they used to obtain a positive match to the DNA found on Rachel. LE then knew Victor was the perpetrator.

However, that ignores the clear, repeated statement that LE traced the family lineage in El Salvador.

"FBI Special Agent in Charge William DelBagno of the Baltimore field office said DNA was used to trace potential relatives of Martinez-Hernandez in El Salvador. That helped identify and find him."

Suspect arrested in Rachel Morin murder case, Harford County sheriff says

A man was arrested in Oklahoma and charged in the murder of Rachel Morin, a Bel Air mother whose body was found on the side of a hiking trail in August.

www.baltimoresun.com

JMO

ETA link

 

[Joe Friday]

However, that ignores the clear, repeated statement that LE traced the family lineage in El Salvador.

JMO

Perhaps the relative in Maryland told LE that they and Victor were from El Salvador. When a background check was done in El Salvador it was learned Victor was wanted for murder there. Likely interviewed his family members in El Salvador as well.

The statement doesn't mean the whole process of comparing DNA and finding a match to a relative started in El Salvador and that is how the relatives in the USA became known.

JMO

 

[Cedars]

Perhaps the relative in Maryland told LE that they and Victor were from El Salvador. When a background check was done in El Salvador it was learned Victor was wanted for murder there. Likely interviewed his family members in El Salvador as well.

The statement doesn't mean the whole process of comparing DNA and finding a match to a relative started in El Salvador and that is how the relatives in the USA became known.

JMO

Wouldn't it be great, LE put someone's DNA in a database and presto magico, even if they're an illegal immigrant and gang member sheltering in a family who are probably also recent immigrants, this database tells police their name and who exactly they're staying with.

JMO

 

[Yemelyan]

My understanding is that Codis can be used in that way in certain states, but not all. Someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong. There was a case in my state that caused the family to campaign to change the laws to allow this. I don't think they ever made that happen, but the horrific murders were solved and the killer caught through familial dna.

My understanding is the same as yours. I think we need to distinguish in our conversation here between two different types of DNA analysis:

1. familial DNA searches - this is the type of analysis where authorities use DNA databases of convicted or arrested persons to look for samples that show high levels of genetic relatedness to their sample, with the goal of uncovering a person whose identity is known who is closely related to the unknown sample - this is the process that uncovered the identity of the Grim Sleeper serial killer in CA. It is prohibited in Maryland; and

2. investigative genetic genealogy - this is when investigators take an unknown perpetrator DNA sample and build out family trees using commercially available DNA databases like GEDMatch or their own proprietary databases, where people have voluntarily submitted their DNA, which hopefully reveals a lead that traces back to the perp's family of origin. This is how the EARONS/Golden State killer was identified in CA.

These two different types of analysis should not be conflated as there are only a few states that allow #1 (NY and CA being among them) while most states allow #2, some with more restrictions than others. Maryland has one of the strictest laws on the books with regard to how genetic information can be used.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...9b5a3c-c7a2-11eb-a11b-6c6191ccd599_story.html

 

[Cedars]

My understanding is the same as yours. I think we need to distinguish in our conversation here between two different types of DNA analysis:

1. familial DNA searches - this is the type of analysis where authorities use DNA databases of convicted or arrested persons to look for samples that show high levels of genetic relatedness to their sample, with the goal of uncovering a person whose identity is known who is closely related to the unknown sample - this is the process that uncovered the identity of the Grim Sleeper serial killer in CA. It is prohibited in Maryland; and

2. investigative genetic genealogy - this is when investigators take an unknown perpetrator DNA sample and build out family trees using commercially available DNA databases like GEDMatch or their own proprietary databases, where people have voluntarily submitted their DNA, which hopefully reveals a lead that traces back to the perp's family of origin. This is how the EARONS/Golden State killer was identified in CA.

These two different types of analysis should not be conflated as there are only a few states that allow #1 (NY and CA being among them) while most states allow #2, some with more restrictions than others. Maryland has one of the strictest laws on the books with regard to how genetic information can be used.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...9b5a3c-c7a2-11eb-a11b-6c6191ccd599_story.html

I agree, for the most the most part. Being quite familiar with genealogy research, I can say it's not as easy as your point 2.

However, as you mention, California allows a familial search of offenders in CODIS. If people recall, the crime in California was committed first, so:
1. SA crime by unknown suspect committed in LA
2. DNA collected by LA police.
3. LA police would have searched CODIS for a match, no direct match found for this suspect
4. LA police would havr uploaded suspect's DNA to the national database used to match unknown offenders.
5. Thus, police in Maryland identified the same unknown suspect as having committed Rachel's murder

So then:
6. A search of DNA databases for a familial match, lead to a relative.

I suggest this was done by California police, doing a familial match in CODIS. I think this is much more likely to have lead to a result than a search of a mainstream genealogy databases. The nature of the suspect - an illegal immigrant gang member - makes it seem unlikely to me he has middle class relatives in the US, who would be interested in searching out their genealogical ancestry. (People may have noticed, almost all the criminals tracked via a commercial genealogy site are white, with a middle class background).

At any rate:
6. Research traced the family lineage from this relative to the perp. These family trees are not all nicely laid out in a database, even if they matched to, say (very rare) an uncle. They have to find all of that uncle's nephews. That involves 1. tracing all that uncle's siblings and then, ideally, testing all those siblings to determine which has the suspect's parental DNA then 2. tracing all the male children of that sibling and testing their DNA. But that's an ideal, out of this world easy example, actual cases are far more difficult.

JMO

 

[Yemelyan]

I agree, for the most the most part. Being quite familiar with genealogy research, I can say it's not as easy as your point 2.

However, as you mention, California allows a familial search of offenders in CODIS. If people recall, the crime in California was committed first, so:
1. SA crime by unknown suspect committed in LA
2. DNA collected by LA police.
3. LA police would have searched CODIS for a match, no direct match found for this suspect
4. Suspect's DNA uploaded to national database used to match unknown offenders.
5. Thus, police in Maryland identified the same unknown suspect as having committed Rachel's murder

So then:
6. A search of DNA databases for a familial match, lead to a relative.

I suggest this was done by California police, doing a familial match in CODIS. I think this is much more likely to have lead to a result than a search of a mainstream genealogy database. The nature of the suspect - an illegal immigrant gang member - makes it seem unlikely to me he has middle class relatives in the US, who would be interested in searching out their genealogical ancestry. (People may have noticed, almost all the criminals tracked via a commercial genealogy site are white, with a middle class background).

At any rate:
6. Research traced the family lineage from this relative to the perp. These family trees ate not all nicely laid out in a database, even if they matched to, say (very rare) an uncle. They have to find all of that uncle's nephews. That involves 1. tracing all that uncle's siblings and then, ideally, testing all those siblings to determine which has parental DNA then 2. tracing all the male children of that sibling and testing their DNA. But that's an ideal, out of this world easy example, actual cases are far more difficult.

JMO

I agree with your points, except I didn't mean to imply that anything about IGG was easy. Perhaps I wrote something there that could be easily misconstrued. I am not trying to say that the family trees are just sitting out there waiting for hits, I am aware that it requires a lot of investigative effort to "build out" the trees, but with IGG it all starts from DNA info that was volunteered by someone who opted in. My post was only trying to distinguish that from familial DNA analysis, which is by definition analyzing genetic material at CODIS markers from convicted and, perhaps, arrested people (depending on the jurisdiction). Some people (not implying you, @Cedars) see "familial" in the type of analysis and they think it's from family opting into ancestry research, or that both types of analysis are happening. I was trying to point out to people who aren't aware that some states allow this and many do not.

 

[Rikissa]

However, that ignores the clear, repeated statement that LE traced the family lineage in El Salvador.

"FBI Special Agent in Charge William DelBagno of the Baltimore field office said DNA was used to trace potential relatives of Martinez-Hernandez in El Salvador. That helped identify and find him."

Suspect arrested in Rachel Morin murder case, Harford County sheriff says

A man was arrested in Oklahoma and charged in the murder of Rachel Morin, a Bel Air mother whose body was found on the side of a hiking trail in August.

www.baltimoresun.com

JMO

ETA link

I wonder if the connection to El Salvador has to do with the suspect having some indigenous DNA that is specific for tribes in El Salvador.

What it means to have “Native American DNA”*

23andMe Ancestry Product Scientist Samantha Esselmann explains what it means and doesn't mean to have Native American DNA.

blog.23andme.com

 

[Cedars]

I agree with your points, except I didn't mean to imply that anything about IGG was easy. Perhaps I wrote something there that could be easily misconstrued. I am not trying to say that the family trees are just sitting out there waiting for hits, I am aware that it requires a lot of investigative effort to "build out" the trees, but with IGG it all starts from DNA info that was volunteered by someone who opted in. My post was only trying to distinguish that from familial DNA analysis, which is by definition analyzing genetic material at CODIS markers from convicted and, perhaps, arrested people (depending on the jurisdiction). Some people (not implying you, @Cedars) see "familial" in the type of analysis and they think it's from family opting into ancestry research, or that both types of analysis are happening. I was trying to point out to people who aren't aware that some states allow this and many do not.

Great, I have just been trying to make that point all along, of what a demanding and creative investigation this must have been, combined with freakishly good luck. I have never seen an arrest based on genealogical research for any other random stranger murder by a Hispanic offender.

JMO

 

[Cedars]

I wonder if the connection to El Salvador has to do with the suspect having some indigenous DNA that is specific for tribes in El Salvador.

What it means to have “Native American DNA”*

23andMe Ancestry Product Scientist Samantha Esselmann explains what it means and doesn't mean to have Native American DNA.

blog.23andme.com

I'm not sure. My thoughts are, if researchers are collecting DNA from isolated communities for some project, I'm not sure how or why those research results would end up in a commercial genealogy database, or be made available to forensic DNA analysts.

For example, I recently came across a cool story about a project that used the DNA of villagers living around the famous ruin Chichen Itza, to prove they are mostly direct descendents of the people who lived in Chichen Itza during its heyday, 3k or more years ago. But I doubt the DNA submitted for that specific, local project, would be made available, or used by, the big DNA collectors.

Personally, I think there's been some general population studies, by country, that enable commercial genealogical sites to identify DNA as, say, German, or Mexican, but they can't get closer than that (plus, there's nothing to say your germanic dna didn't come from someone in the Roman Legion who was part of the army that invaded ancient England, or whatever.) The turmoil of population movements isn't new.

JMO

 

[Gizmo3]

Apologies if this has already been discusssd, but in addition to tracing his movements in the US for potential other crimes, I hope they do the same for his border crossings in Mexico. Based on the multiple dates he attempted to cross the border, he was in Mexico for at least a month. I hope investigators look into any assaults or disappearances of any Mexican women and children during that period .