Members' Theories

[BBB167893]

If the coroner had held her longer, perhaps the question of whether those "abrasions" were made by a stun gun would have been answered. It's too late now. It seems like they were in a real hurry to get JB buried. With so many unanswered questions about suspected sexual assault, stun gun use, and what may have caused the abrasions, etc. it might have helped the investigation.

Agreed. Besides, I have strong doubts about that "held the body for ransom" story.

 

[BBB167893]

Still, as you know there are people on this forum (and probably elsewhere) who believe they were treated 'too kindly'.

You bet.

Some even think they should have both instantly been thrown in jail until one or both of them confessed! Unbelievable!!!

Not instantly, but yes. And there's nothing "unbelievable" about it. It's a STANDARD police tactic that the greenest rookie on a beat would know. Look up the Steinberg case if you don't believe me.

 

[MurriFlower]

You bet.



Not instantly, but yes. And there's nothing "unbelievable" about it. It's a STANDARD police tactic that the greenest rookie on a beat would know. Look up the Steinberg case if you don't believe me.

So says you!

 

[DeeDee249]

Funeral 12/31.

Will you cite approximate location where that info is available, ie., not wanting more testing? TY

Sure. It's available right inside my cute little head. Obviously the Rs and above mentioned people would not have actually SAID it. Of course, JR was asked about exhuming her for further testing (was it with Larry King or Oprah?) and said they felt she should remain "at peace".

 

[WHITEFANG]

Sure. It's available right inside my cute little head. Obviously the Rs and above mentioned people would not have actually SAID it. Of course, JR was asked about exhuming her for further testing (was it with Larry King or Oprah?) and said they felt she should remain "at peace".

A wee difference from resisting more time with the coroner.

 

[DeeDee249]

A wee difference from resisting more time with the coroner.

Well, it was the DA who resisted that. Yet, I have never read any statements by LE or the family or the DA's office requesting more time to check the injuries further. We have PMPT portraying Eller as calling the coroner to ask if he didn't want to keep her longer because "maybe you missed something" but we really don't know what his exact conversation was.
But it doesn't seem like any one was bothered that the cause of those strange round abrasions was not found (or even suggested). If it were my child, I'd want them to at least try.

 

[WHITEFANG]

The thing is that the R's did NOT want they body held for further testing. They (and their lawyers and the complicit DA's office) wanted JB to be buries as soon as possible. They did not want her looked at TOO closely.

Well, it was the DA who resisted that. Yet, I have never read any statements by LE or the family or the DA's office requesting more time to check the injuries further.

DeeDee249, am I reading these two statements in conjunction with the same little item we were discussing just now? Just curious.

 

[DeeDee249]

DeeDee249, am I reading these two statements in conjunction with the same little item we were discussing just now? Just curious.

Yes, if we are discussing the possible stun gun marks. Those suspicious-looking marks just don't appear on a dead body. Something had to make them and I don't feel any effort was made to try to find out what it was.
Even the police dropped the ball on it. Eller may have asked the coroner to keep her longer, but as far as I have read, no mention was made of the marks specifically until after she was buried, when an exhumation was needed and refused.
To me, they look like either stun gun marks or cigarette burns just from the photos, yet Mayer should certainly have noted if they were burns. He described them as abrasions. A stun gun would also make a burn, but a different kind of burn than one from a cigarette and a coroner should be able to recognize that too.
Here is where I feel Boulder police were wrong in refusing outside help. Boulder didn't see too many crimes like this, and larger cities (like Denver, whose offer of help was refused) would have had more experience. The FBI should certainly have had the ability to determine what made the marks.

 

[WHITEFANG]

No. I meant the R's alleged resistance to having the coroner take additional time with his examination of the corpse.

 

[WHITEFANG]

On December 27, The Rocky Mountain News quoted an Assistant District Attorney as saying, "It was very unusual for a kidnap victim's body to be found at home — it's not adding up." According to Charlie Brennan, the journalist who wrote the story, the police had also indicated to him that they held a strong belief that the parents were responsible. Julie Hayden, a television reporter for Denver's Channel 7, also covered the story on the same day and drew the same conclusion. She later explained that from her first exposure to the case, the police had made it very clear that they were not scouring the area looking for "some mad kidnapper," but instead, concentrating their efforts on John and Patsy Ramsey.

The cops did a hell of a job on this case, didn't they? And the press ate it up. The R's were way too nice. They should have pursued their causes of actions until these guys went out of business. They had more legitimate claims, too. They got practically nothing compared to what they deserved.

I bet they spent at least $10 million on legal fees and investigators, the whole nine yards.

 

[DeeDee249]

No. I meant the R's alleged resistance to having the coroner take additional time with his examination of the corpse.

Any discussions the Rs had with their lawyers, the DA or coroner's office, if any, on the matter of additional examination of JB's body has not been made public, if indeed there was any. The Rs claimed not to have read the autopsy report or looked at the photos. They were questioned about owning a stun gun and it would be assumed they knew there were marks on JB that looked like they could have come from a stun gun, yet I don't recall seeing that they ever wished to find out for sure.
When JR was questioned about this matter (and I believe it was on a TV show) he said that they did not want JB exhumed for this, preferring to let her "rest in peace".
So to clarify- the Rs made no resistance (as far as I know) to JB being retained in the morgue for further testing. But the DA's office did.

 

[WHITEFANG]

Any discussions the Rs had with their lawyers, the DA or coroner's office, if any, on the matter of additional examination of JB's body has not been made public, if indeed there was any. The Rs claimed not to have read the autopsy report or looked at the photos. They were questioned about owning a stun gun and it would be assumed they knew there were marks on JB that looked like they could have come from a stun gun, yet I don't recall seeing that they ever wished to find out for sure.
When JR was questioned about this matter (and I believe it was on a TV show) he said that they did not want JB exhumed for this, preferring to let her "rest in peace".
So to clarify- the Rs made no resistance (as far as I know) to JB being retained in the morgue for further testing. But the DA's office did.

The thing is that the R's did NOT want they body held for further testing. They (and their lawyers and the complicit DA's office) wanted JB to be buries as soon as possible. They did not want her looked at TOO closely. DeeDee249

I am trying to make sure I understand what you are saying. In retrospect, you believe the Rs were not resisting the coroner's intention to conduct additional testing during the autopsy?

 

[DeeDee249]

I am saying the coroner did not MAKE any requests to keep the body longer for additional testing. It was the BPD who called Mayer and asked him to keep the body a while longer "in case you missed something". Mayer refused. And the DA's office put the "they want to hold the body till her parents talk to them" spin on it. But after JB was buried and the question of stun gun use came up, JR said they did not want the body exhumed for further testing.
I maintain that for a death like this, a child's murder, the body was buried in a hurry. It seemed like it was a rush job with so many unanswered questions.

 

[BBB167893]

So says you!

And I've got a lot of company.

 

[WHITEFANG]

And I've got a lot of company.

True, the wrong kind.

 

[MurriFlower]

And I've got a lot of company.

Real or imagined?

 

[WHITEFANG]

Accused of Lying

LINDA WILCOX: An example, when John Ramsey says to the camera, I didn't know she wet the bed, or not very much. I happen to know myself, he walked upstairs, she had wet her bed, I came in on a Monday morning and he said, "could you change her bed? She's wet it again." The thing that strikes me as odd, I knew her between 2 1/2 and 4. During that time, she did wet the bed but it wasn't chronic. It was every now and then. Early on, I mean 2 1/2 year olds always do, I mean it seems like they always have accidents. But, it got progressively worse. I would think that a 6 year old would wet the bed less than a 4 year old or a 2 year old. It actually got worse,

Wilcox worked for them until Joni was 4.
She accused J of lying about her bed wetting problems.
She said this based on her knowledge of J's knowledge that she wet the bed when she was 2 and 1/2 to 4 years of age. Even then "it wasn't chronic." And she admits at 2 and 1/2 it isn't unusual.
"But it got progressively worse." 6 year old kids should have fewer problems than 4 year old kids. How did she know the severity of her bed wetting problems when she hadn't been there in 2 years? This lovely lady tells all who will listen that J is a liar.
How were the R's supposed to counter this endless assault on their integrity?

 

[DeeDee249]

Linda Wilcox probably got this information about the bedwetting from the same place we did- she read about it. It WAS true, actually. While some children do still wet the bed at age 6, these are children who have never been dry through the night. With JB, her toilet training progressed normally, with her becoming dry most nights and in control of bladder and bowels during the day. Then, she began to regress, both wetting and soiling herself (the latter is most unusual for a child that age) and wetting the bed most nights. Nedra said JB had regressed when Patsy went through her cancer treatments, and as she said, that might not be unusual, especially as JB was only 3 at the time and not far past being in diapers. But for this to resurface three years later, with Patsy long recovered from her treatments, would be cause for concern.

 

[BBB167893]

True, the wrong kind.

All wrong for you! Among them are the NYPD and the FBI. A few years ago, an FBI agent (female) was talking about another case with a similar set up. She confirmed that the standard tactic is to separate and jail the two suspects, let them stew a while (preferably with a scary inmate who may be an informant), then ask each one "who wants a get-out-of-jail-free card?"

Just what did you mean by that "wrong kind" crack, anyway.

 

[BBB167893]

Real or imagined?

VERY real.