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I am quite certain that Elizabeths kidnapper has had his DNA entered in CODIS. If not, I am sure that will be rectified soon. The LE agencies would love to pin additional crimes on him. Personally, I don't think there is any possibility that he was involved in JonBenets murder whatsoever. In fact I think it is more likely a MAAM, which tells everyone that knows me here, how sure I truly am.
 
starburst said:
What is a MAMM? new here. Thank you for your thoughts.
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Sorry Starburst, a member has a theory that the killer was a middle aged Asian male. I disagree with his theory.

Welcome to Websleuths and JonBenets forum!
 
I’ve been reading here recently, trying to catch up. I believe one of the parents, (likely Patsy) killed JonBenet. The Holidays are always a busy and stressful time, especially for parents of young children. Patsy, being the perfectionist, socialite and totally concerned with how things looked had high expectations over all things, began losing total control, especially over JonBenet.
I imagine tension building up between JB & Patsy for some time, JonBenet increasingly having a mind of her own. Not wanting to go along with her mother all the time. The red turtleneck issue may have been the impetus for Patsy’s increasing irritation. Not big things, but a lot of little things beginning to mount up and push her over the edge, when the final confrontation happened. I am not certain how the sequence of events unfolded after they got home on Christmas night, One theory is that John went in to her room, or they were already in the basement, with the flashlight, so as to not alert anyone, Patsy showed up, grabbed the flashlight, hitting her daughter instead of her husband, and the cover-up began.
I don’t think either parent ever went to bed that night. Patsy started working on the “ransom note” and John on the staging. The package of larger undies was near at hand to be wrapped, and after trying to clean her up, he grabbed one of those, then gathered other items close at hand, including the blanket and nightgown from the dryer. All of this behavior convinced me it never could have been an “intruder”. No real pedophile or kidnapper goes to the length they did to cover the killing up. They don’t care what impression is left. And a real kidnapper would just have taken her.
 
I watched my Christmas home video from when I was 6. I definitely had a little attitude problem. When my dad asked what my doll's name was, I replied, "Samantha. What do you think her name is?" and "Santa doesn't wrap the gifts. The elves do!" I can definitely see JonBenet getting sassy with Patsy about the My Twinn doll and the outfits. Also, I was able to read a few sentences on my Cabbage Patch doll's box so I'm finding it even more disturbing that JonBenet wasn't able to read the names on gifts which would have been "JonBenet" "Burke" "Mom" and "Dad". I was in 1st grade at 6 when JBR was in kindergarten, so that would might have played a part.
 
If it was an intruder I think it was someone in cahoots with a person who had access to the house and a key. Someone who was in the home on more than one occasion when the Ramsey's were away. The intruder is probably sadistic and a pedophile. They weren't that intelligent so the ransom note looks phony, but the writer was very jealous of the family money and disliked John. Maybe this person was also there when Patsy was not and was the one who sexually abused JonBenet, but also convinced her that he knew Santa Clause. Another older child, also abused by this person, could have been acting out with JonBenet as well. If these people needed money yet also wanted to quiet JonBenet, she may have purposely been murdered in a sadistic way (due to some sick sexual fantasy) with the plan to place her in the wine room. There's experts saying that JonBenet had previously been sexually abused, the bed wetting resuming the past year, infections, and change in behavior that month plus thinking that Santa was coming back after xmas have to indicate something. All that combined with over kill and making sure she would not live, plus the hatred and sadistic tone of the note surely indicates someone who wanted JonBenet silenced either to cover up previous sexual abuse or to finally commit a horrible fantasy during the murder.
 
I have a couple theories and I jump back and forth on them depending on what I re read and the times I feel too sympathetic towards the R's. My mind has changed many times over the years. When I take the emotion out of and think about totally logically, I think something happened with BR and Jonbonet. Im trying to be careful what I say because it seems wrong to point the finger at a person who was a child at the time so you can put the details of that together any way you want to. anyway, something happened with JB and BR in the basement, they played there other times and this probably wasnt the first incident. JBR may have gotten up after wetting the bed, went to BRs room and they got up, ate pineapple, whatever. Im not clear on how she was actually murdered in the basement (probably some sort of accident, I dont think the other child intended to kill her)but anyway, I think the parents felt they had no choice but to after the fact cover it up. For a long time I thought that PR might have done something and JR truly didnt know and didnt really confront her, not wanting to believe it. But, when I re read the interviews its JR's that seem more odd to me than PR. I think whatever happened, they finished the job that needed to be done and simply closed that chapter that morning. Thats why PR can be so adamant that there is a killer, she re wrote history in her head and moved forward to protect her family and her son. If it was an intruder that killed their daughter, niece , sister..why wouldnt they still be getting their faces out there. If someone really came in to my house and killed my child, I would be a basket case for years, but at some point I would get up and dedicate my life to finding the person. JR doesnt do that, BR is old enough, he could be out there too. I dont think the parents could have done this and NO ONE ever said anything.secrets come out and BR would have questioned it.I think if BR wasnt involved, he would as an adult be trying to get to the truth or cooperating with the police. To me this explains the things I find the weirdest about the case, such as 1. The RN--just too weird for words 2. Practice note in the house (could be explained I guess, but still weird...shows the person had alot of time--like all night)3. the attitude in the morning..hurry up and call the cops..the RN said dont call the cops, but they didnt even consider that. 4. BR--they sent the kid out with friends..if someone killed one of my kids in my house, the other would never leave my side again. Although I do question if they worried that Burke might say something, but it could be they were so disgusted and distraught they just needed him out of there for a while. Obviously they werent worried he would say "Hey my parents killed my sister". I think thats huge really. 5. JR finding JB so quickly in the basement., weird weird weird. 6. Pointing the fingers at everyone and anyone..I think they felt that everyone else would be cleared anyway, so just point the finger and get the heat off the family. 7. No evidence of marks or tracks in the snow..how did the Intruder get in? They must have come through the front door, which is possible I guess..but I dont think they would have stayed that long or left JBR's body in the basement. This is the thoery that makes the most sense to me because if one of the parents did it and the other helped cover it up, I think time would be their enemy and someone would have cracked, or they would have divorced or something. JBR was too precious for PR to cover for JR, and I just dont think JR was dedicated enough to cover for his wife if she killed their daughter. I dont see them willing to go through all the scrutiny and accusations for each other. Its just the only think that makes logical sense to me. I also think thats why PR can be so adamant about some things in her interviews, she really doesnt know when JBR ate the pineapple, she probably put the pieces together after the fact, but I think she gets some satisfaction out of the bits of truth she tells in her interviews. She really doesn't know the details like that and doesn't have an explanation. I also think that if BR wasnt involved he would be talking to friends and such and we would hear about it. Do you really think kids (drinking boys) go to college and drink and dont ask Burke ..wrong..I dont believe that. I have 3 college aged boys and they are not perfect. This is an in between age when the parents arent always your best friends (even if your paying the bills), obviously its a subject off limits. I just think something would have slipped out if BR suspected or knew his parents did it. As younger boys my kids got in too such fights I worried they would accidentally kill each other..they dont know their strength as kids and dont understand how rough they are being. Anyway, thats off the subject but this is my main theory. I really do like reading everyone's theories.. It's mind boggling. wish I could have met Patsy. I did read their book and for a long time afterward (until I came here and started thinking about it logically), I really thought they were innocent and so what--there is no explanation. They are sympathetic people to me.
 
Reading through these comments I'm just stunned at the depravity I have seen stated. My god what is wrong with people who think that to cover up an accident a parent would sexually assault their dead child and garrote their neck?

If any member of the family had "accidentally" killed JB the simplest thing to do would be to toss her down a flight of stairs and say she fell. Why in the world would a parent do this to their child's body?


I don't think the family did it. Someone once said something I thought rang true, it was the investigator hired by the Ramsey's I think. He said someone who would do something like this to a child's body doesn't just suddenly turn into a person who could do this. If it was PR it would have shown up a long long time ago in one way or another.

This obviously was an intruder. I just can't get over the comments in this thread. :(
 
Chewy said:
Reading through these comments I'm just stunned at the depravity I have seen stated. My god what is wrong with people who think that to cover up an accident a parent would sexually assault their dead child and garrote their neck?

If any member of the family had "accidentally" killed JB the simplest thing to do would be to toss her down a flight of stairs and say she fell. Why in the world would a parent do this to their child's body?


I don't think the family did it. Someone once said something I thought rang true, it was the investigator hired by the Ramsey's I think. He said someone who would do something like this to a child's body doesn't just suddenly turn into a person who could do this. If it was PR it would have shown up a long long time ago in one way or another.

This obviously was an intruder. I just can't get over the comments in this thread. :(
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Hospital workers would be extremely suspicious of a child with a massive skull fracture, who according to their parents, had fell down the stairs. They would definitely not believe it was a complete accident and the authorities would be called in to investigate.
 
eileenhawkeye said:
Hospital workers would be extremely suspicious of a child with a massive skull fracture, who according to their parents, had fell down the stairs. They would definitely not believe it was a complete accident and the authorities would be called in to investigate.
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Oh that makes so much sense.

I can see why they'd choose to stage a kidnapping and sexually mutilate their child in the basement of their own home. That would raise much less of an eyebrow.

? I mean seriously now.
 
Chewy said:
Oh that makes so much sense.

I can see why they'd choose to stage a kidnapping and sexually mutilate their child in the basement of their own home. That would raise much less of an eyebrow.

? I mean seriously now.
Click to expand...

Well, considering that they're not in jail and there are plenty of people out there who don't think the Ramseys are guilty, then I would say that staging an accident to make it look like murder would raise much less suspicion than claiming your child with a massive head fracture fell down the stairs.
 
Any coroner can tell whether a child has died from a fall down the stairs. There are always massive bruising- not just a fractured skull, which a coroner can also tell came from blunt force trauma (bludgeoned as opposed to hitting stairs. This was a depressed fracture- a piece of the skull punched out.
There have been cases where parents have killed a child and brought them to the hospital saying they fell down the stairs. In the absence of the bruising expected in a real tumble down the stairs, yes, hospital doctors would be suspicious and make LE aware of it.
If they try to toss her dead body down the stairs? Dead bodies don't bruise the same way live bodies do. Nor do they bleed, so there was not likely postmortem sexual violation unless there was sexual violation that occurred before she died. Blood was found in her vagina, and evidence of blood that had been wiped from her outer vaginal area and thighs was also found. None of these were postmortem.
 
Chewy said:
Reading through these comments I'm just stunned at the depravity I have seen stated. My god what is wrong with people who think that to cover up an accident a parent would sexually assault their dead child and garrote their neck?

If any member of the family had "accidentally" killed JB the simplest thing to do would be to toss her down a flight of stairs and say she fell. Why in the world would a parent do this to their child's body?


I don't think the family did it. Someone once said something I thought rang true, it was the investigator hired by the Ramsey's I think. He said someone who would do something like this to a child's body doesn't just suddenly turn into a person who could do this. If it was PR it would have shown up a long long time ago in one way or another.

This obviously was an intruder. I just can't get over the comments in this thread. :(
Click to expand...

You have fallen into the position of projecting your OWN feelings into what you think SHOULD have happened rather than examining the story in detail.

Sure, after reading the facts you may reach the same conclusion, but your current reasoning is a bit too emotional.

As far as suggesting a shove down the stairs would conceal the truth behind the bash on the head....well....that's a bit like thinking that by stabbing someone and lighting their house on fire that the fire will conceal the stab wounds. Doesn't really work that way.
 
Chewy said:
Oh that makes so much sense.

I can see why they'd choose to stage a kidnapping and sexually mutilate their child in the basement of their own home. That would raise much less of an eyebrow.

? I mean seriously now.
Click to expand...



People really need to be informed before they make comments like this, thats what I find sad.
 
Chewy said:
Reading through these comments I'm just stunned at the depravity I have seen stated. My god what is wrong with people who think that to cover up an accident a parent would sexually assault their dead child and garrote their neck?

If any member of the family had "accidentally" killed JB the simplest thing to do would be to toss her down a flight of stairs and say she fell. Why in the world would a parent do this to their child's body?


I don't think the family did it. Someone once said something I thought rang true, it was the investigator hired by the Ramsey's I think. He said someone who would do something like this to a child's body doesn't just suddenly turn into a person who could do this. If it was PR it would have shown up a long long time ago in one way or another.

This obviously was an intruder. I just can't get over the comments in this thread. :(
Click to expand...

Chewy said:
Oh that makes so much sense.

I can see why they'd choose to stage a kidnapping and sexually mutilate their child in the basement of their own home. That would raise much less of an eyebrow.

? I mean seriously now.
Click to expand...

Seriously, you are correct. Sadly you'll probably not create any converts.

It was very likely someone who actually speaks/writes just like the ransom note. While it is presumptively presented that the author modified or disguised their writing or grammar when writing the ransom note, its not a known that this is the case. Nobody can show that the ransom note is not an exact copy of someone's handwriting, grammar, and style.

Another poster had links to a linguistic study of the ransom note. In the words of the linguist, the ransom note was plenty long enough to produce a unique style that belongs to one person. PR was ruled to be incapable of creating the note because she never demonstrated most of the unique style-markers that are present in the ransom note.
 
By Chewy: "Reading through these comments I'm just stunned at the depravity I have seen stated. My god what is wrong with people who think that to cover up an accident a parent would sexually assault their dead child and garrote their neck?"

Chewy, what about the mother Julie Scheneker who just shot her two children because they were 'mouthy'? Shot her daughter in the face after shooting her son while he saw her raise the gun to him. Premeditated murder with notes before and after, including the comment that she would have to 'delay her massacre' on her own children due to the 5-day waiting period to get the gun.... what kind of depravity is that?

What about the couple who kept the girl locked in the bathroom for 6 years - the lady's own granddaughter....with a litter box and a towel on the floor, barricaded in there so she could not come out most of the time? What kind of depravity is that?

What about Andrea Yates who murdered her children one by one and laid them on the beds afterward? Susan Smith? Possibly Casey Anthony?

What about the case of 4-yr old. Emma Thompson, mother let her boyfriend get away with raping, brutalizing, giving an STD, and finally murdering her little girl.

Just because you cannot conceive of the depravity that a parent or grandparent, or someone in charge of caring for a child could possibly cause, does not mean that it did not happen. It happens every day, all the time.
 
And it keeps getting better: Three adopted children who allegedly suffered burns and were forced to eat pet food lived in "inhumane conditions" and might never fully recover, an Oklahoma sheriff said Thursday:
http://http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/02/24/oklahoma.abuse.case/index.html?iref=NS1#

Some of the things these adoptive parents did: confined the 15-year-old boy to a plastic dog carrier for two months and deprived him of food; all three had their tongues burned with a hot spoon for lying; choking them and locking them in the storm shelter behind the residence for long periods of time with only chairs to sit in and plastic buckets for bathroom use. It was also alleged that the Kluths deprived the children of meals for punishment and fed them cat food and dog food. One of the children was told by Sonja Kluth that he should commit suicide....

And there's Zahra Baker: evidence shown she was sexually abused, physically abused, tortured by stepmother, crime included ransom note, covering up evidence, false police reports, and dismemberment of the body. Stepmother charged.

Someone also bludgeoned, assaulted, strangled, and murdered JonBenet Ramsey. Whether her parents or family are involved or not, I don't know. But one cannot discount their involvement just because one thinks they could not be capable, or one personally would never do such a thing themselves.
 
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