Members' Theories

[UKGuy]

You know, Schiller called his book "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town". Just because the R's got away with it, doesn't make it a "perfect" murder. If they weren't wealthy or this happened in another state, both the pineapple and the bloomies would have been there undoing. Along with the RN of course.

Limaes,
They may have got away with it to date, but who knows what the future holds. I guess part of the popularity of this case lies in the possibility that JonBenet's killer is currently enjoying an extremely affluent style of living, and that some people think they know this persons identity.

So assuming JonBenet's killer is alive and well, who thinks this person will have lost their preference for abuse, and could this person lose control and abuse again? This is one of two events that could occur, in the near future, which will offer a clue to this persons identity.

Its hardly a Perfect Murder when there is a complete absence of intruder evidence, and nearly everyone and their dog thinks they know who did it?


.

 

[Limaes]

Limaes,
They may have got away with it to date, but who knows what the future holds. I guess part of the popularity of this case lies in the possibility that JonBenet's killer is currently enjoying an extremely affluent style of living, and that some people think they know this persons identity.

So assuming JonBenet's killer is alive and well, who thinks this person will have lost their preference for abuse, and could this person lose control and abuse again? This is one of two events that could occur, in the near future, which will offer a clue to this persons identity.

Its hardly a Perfect Murder when there is a complete absence of intruder evidence, and nearly everyone and their dog thinks they know who did it?


.

I wonder if PR had survived her illness would the BPD had taken some action against her after they got the case back?

 

[Limaes]

I've been following this case for many years now, and have accummulated a lot of info as well as a long thought out (and changed many times) theory. But have lost it ALL when my OS died ...argh! now I have to start collecting again.

Anyways, like many other RDIs, I believe that BR was quickly exited from the house that morning so as to spare him from seeing his sister's body when it was "found" (as well as so he couldn't be questioned). I also feel that them "finding" her body just prior to the older R children arriving no coincidence either. They had some serious inside help for sure.

What I don't get is why? What was in it for those who helped them?

 

[Cliff McDonald]

Intruder seems most likely. What about SBTC has anybody solved that?

 

[DeeDee249]

I've been following this case for many years now, and have accummulated a lot of info as well as a long thought out (and changed many times) theory. But have lost it ALL when my OS died ...argh! now I have to start collecting again.

Anyways, like many other RDIs, I believe that BR was quickly exited from the house that morning so as to spare him from seeing his sister's body when it was "found" (as well as so he couldn't be questioned). I also feel that them "finding" her body just prior to the older R children arriving no coincidence either. They had some serious inside help for sure.

What I don't get is why? What was in it for those who helped them?

There didn't have to be anything "in it" if the help they got was because of his Lockheed connections or his lawyers' connections with the governor. Avoiding this awful scandal would have been all that was wanted.
As far as the friends they called over- at that time, they may not have known the truth. Obviously some of them (FW) figured it out pretty quickly. And it was a simple matter to keep him quiet. They just had to hint around that he (FW) had something to do with it. It worked. FW has not, to this day, come forward with details of what really happened as he followed JR into the wineceller where they "found" JB.

 

[UKGuy]

I've been following this case for many years now, and have accummulated a lot of info as well as a long thought out (and changed many times) theory. But have lost it ALL when my OS died ...argh! now I have to start collecting again.

Anyways, like many other RDIs, I believe that BR was quickly exited from the house that morning so as to spare him from seeing his sister's body when it was "found" (as well as so he couldn't be questioned). I also feel that them "finding" her body just prior to the older R children arriving no coincidence either. They had some serious inside help for sure.

What I don't get is why? What was in it for those who helped them?

Limaes,

What I don't get is why? What was in it for those who helped them?

Favors banked for future use, This is how it works, JR might be required to make a substantial donation to a particular foundation, or sign off on a lucrative contract, or he just becomes a corporate fixer, someone who will sort out those issues, e.g. hiring private invetigators, asking advice from attorneys.

They had some serious inside help for sure.

Things were too well prepared that morning for them not to have recieved advice prior to the 911 call.


.

 

[UKGuy]

I wonder if PR had survived her illness would the BPD had taken some action against her after they got the case back?

Limaes,
Probably not since the DA was not disposed to act against the Ramsey's. What is intriguing, is if its PDI, then Burke Ramsey knows who killed JonBenet, similarly if its JDI, but if its BDI, then when John passes on I reckon we will be in new territory. Due to particular legal issues, if its BDI, we will find out!

So whilst there may never be any legal resolution of the case, I reckon we will find out who killed JonBenet.


.

 

[Flatlander]

This topic has been discussed SO much here. Yes, if course police interviewed the "man who played Santa". Many times. He also gave police hair, saliva and fingerprints. NOTHING matched and there was absolutely no evidence ever linking that man to the crime. He's been dead for several years. His name has been around for years also.

For the past several days I have been asking myself about the fiber evidence and PR sweater. I do not recall when the sweater was turned over but do recall that PR walked out of the house with it on 12/26/96. So to me she could have purchased another one simuliar but not exact as the one she actually wore.

I also have often wondered about the comment JBR made to a friend that Santa specifically stated to her that he was going to surprise her with a special visit "after Christmas". There was a Santa Suit recovered from the basement. Simply wondering how much of that suit was involved, if at all?

Link of the heart on JBR hand to the heart drawn on the Santa bear on JBR other twin bed???? Mention of twin bed, twin doll. The American Doll (if I recall correctly) that had a cord wrapped around it's neck. The black duck tape found on JBR placed after death identical match to the piece found on the picture over the dresser next to JBR bed. I don't believe in coincidence. Everything happens for a reason whether we understand it or not.

Anyone have a take on this? How about you SuperDave?

 

[Flatlander]

No.

JAR was in Atlanta. And has solid alibis.

And JR had 2 planes to exit the city in.

 

[Flatlander]

No.

JAR was in Atlanta. And has solid alibis.

JR also had 2 airplanes to exit very quickly to the left if needed.

 

[Flatlander]

No need, Ami- it wasn't meant as a criticism. Your thoughts (and theories) belong right here. What was meant is that this thread is not supposed to be for discussion. Yet, we get carried away sometimes (me, especially) and it turns into a regular discussion thread. We are only supposed to post our THEORIES here and then repeat it on an appropriate thread.

I'm guilty of this as well. It is hard not to ask questions when it comes to theories. I do not mean to step out of bounds. I haven't actually came up with a who actually done it because the evidence locker seems to be locked for good but if I was to take a gander I would have to say it was all in the family (RDI).

Just for note ST went to the Fernies and was told the following: Some friends of Patsy's were concerned about how JBR was being groomed for pagents with the heavy makeup, the elaborate costumes, and the recent addition of platinum-dyed hair. It was creating a "mega-JonBenet thing," and some friends had planned to talk about it with Patsy after Christmas. JonBenet inside the Ramsey Muder Investigation pg. 65

This reminds me of the show toddlers and tiarra's. No wonder JonBenet had an attitude and acted out. There is a tremedous unnatural pressure put on these babies and they know no different from what they are taught (right verses wrong behavior). Even sexual abuse. They know how it makes them feel but they are not equipped with the knowledge of right verses wrong.

And last but not least I truly believe that JBR was tired of the whole miss and was about to speak her mind. Which could change the entire scenario from accidental to a rage induced death of this precious Angel. I hope and pray for Justice for JBR; this is why I am here.

 

[Limaes]

Things were too well prepared that morning for them not to have recieved advice prior to the 911 call.


.

Oh lordy yes! Lawyers & BDA included. :furious:

So many people in this case that should have been charged.

 

[DeeDee249]

For the past several days I have been asking myself about the fiber evidence and PR sweater. I do not recall when the sweater was turned over but do recall that PR walked out of the house with it on 12/26/96. So to me she could have purchased another one simuliar but not exact as the one she actually wore.

I also have often wondered about the comment JBR made to a friend that Santa specifically stated to her that he was going to surprise her with a special visit "after Christmas". There was a Santa Suit recovered from the basement. Simply wondering how much of that suit was involved, if at all?

Link of the heart on JBR hand to the heart drawn on the Santa bear on JBR other twin bed???? Mention of twin bed, twin doll. The American Doll (if I recall correctly) that had a cord wrapped around it's neck. The black duck tape found on JBR placed after death identical match to the piece found on the picture over the dresser next to JBR bed. I don't believe in coincidence. Everything happens for a reason whether we understand it or not.

Anyone have a take on this? How about you SuperDave?

When LE received the clothing the family wore that day/night, it took a long time to get it. The Rs were already in Atlanta, and the BPD said that some of the clothing looked new- and the rest looked laundered. The family should have been made to turn over that clothing before any of them left the house- and that included BR, who left very early that morning, before JB was found. With Patsy, she was wearing the same clothes from the White's party the day before. When she left that night, a female police officer should have watched her undress, and taken the clothing into custody. Even the outfit JB wore to the White's should have been taken. The white shirt was on the body, so LE had that, but I don't believe the black velvet pants and vest were taken.
Patsy was shown a photo by the police that showed a pair of child's black pants on the floor (either JB's room or bathroom, I forget which) and there were fecal stains in them. Patsy denied they were the same velvet pants that JB wore that day, saying they were "play pants", but frankly, from a photo it is impossible to tell whether they were velvet or cotton or corduroy or whatever. If they WERE the black velvet pants, and JB soiled them at the White's or shortly after returning home, it may have been the trigger for the events of the night. The Rs said that JB remained in the car as they made a few stops on the way home to deliver gifts. They claimed she was asleep, but JR made a comment to police that they decided not to deliver the last gift in the car (I believe it was a gift for the Stines?) because JR said that the kids would want to go in and play with their friends, so it was thought better not to stop and to deliver the gift after they got back from the trip.
But maybe JB stayed in the car because she pooped her pants.

 

[Flatlander]

DeeDee249 thank you so much for your up to dates. I have been studying this case honestly sense it happened. But mostly for the past 10 years or so. I drew a picture on 12/26/1993 of a kite and titled it Rain on my Parade. My BD is 12/26 and I thought it was for me but since JB I have always thought of her. She and I have a lot in common in upbringing.

I would love nothing more than for Justice to be served for JBR (I doubt that it ever will be except in heaven (money talks and let the guilty walk). I am of the opinion they knew who did it from the get go. I honestly believe that phone calls were placed as soon as the head injury occured and the RDI were lead through procedure of what and what not to do. As well as the locker room full of evidence just lying there with nobody looking in to further investigate.

As for JBR being asleep accoring to BR pg 355 from ST book: He said his sister fell asleep in the car on the way home but awakened to help carry presents into the house of a friend. When they got home, JonBenet walked in slowly and went up the spiral stairs to bed, just ahead of Patsy. This sounds about right to me. I have said that I use to work at a job that had those type of stairs and they are really hard to maneuver as you can see by looking at them. You have to stay close to the outside of them and hold on. There is no room to place your feet against the pole in order to move up or down them.

I also wonder if BR didn't bring home DS to take along on the trip to Michigan as Patsy was having problems with BR and JBR and wanted to keep them seperated. I have read so much all these years sometimes it is hard to find the facts. This would explain the absence of Patsy's new bicycle for Christmas that year and the tread marks in the light dusting of snow leading from the side of the house to the street. DS lived just 6 blocks away. Somebody just recently asked why did they stay with the Stines when DP (Patsy's father) had a home there? I think this is a very good question!

 

[Noodles]

When LE received the clothing the family wore that day/night, it took a long time to get it. The Rs were already in Atlanta, and the BPD said that some of the clothing looked new- and the rest looked laundered. The family should have been made to turn over that clothing before any of them left the house- and that included BR, who left very early that morning, before JB was found. With Patsy, she was wearing the same clothes from the White's party the day before. When she left that night, a female police officer should have watched her undress, and taken the clothing into custody. Even the outfit JB wore to the White's should have been taken. The white shirt was on the body, so LE had that, but I don't believe the black velvet pants and vest were taken.
Patsy was shown a photo by the police that showed a pair of child's black pants on the floor (either JB's room or bathroom, I forget which) and there were fecal stains in them. Patsy denied they were the same velvet pants that JB wore that day, saying they were "play pants", but frankly, from a photo it is impossible to tell whether they were velvet or cotton or corduroy or whatever. If they WERE the black velvet pants, and JB soiled them at the White's or shortly after returning home, it may have been the trigger for the events of the night. The Rs said that JB remained in the car as they made a few stops on the way home to deliver gifts. They claimed she was asleep, but JR made a comment to police that they decided not to deliver the last gift in the car (I believe it was a gift for the Stines?) because JR said that the kids would want to go in and play with their friends, so it was thought better not to stop and to deliver the gift after they got back from the trip.
But maybe JB stayed in the car because she pooped her pants.

(my bold)

I have read so much on this case my head is spinning...

A poster here commented that Patsy decided to quit with the diapers for whatever reason, and just launder her sheets everyday. But I remember a picture from somewhere of an area close to JB's bedroom, maybe right out from it. You could plainly see a bag of diapers with one sticking out of the package; perhaps like someone had reached for one, had gotten two, and shoved one back in. I always wondered if that happened the night of the murder.

I had always thought that after JB went to bed she had gotten up because she had an accident again. I want to say that Patsy got up to attend to her but there really is no indication her side of the bed had been slept in IIRC. And John was never given the opportunity to answer the question whether he woke up and was she in the bed or not. I think maybe she stayed up to do some packing for all these trips. JB got up to go to the bathroom and Patsy hit the roof. I think she was pissed the whole night really. She didnt want to go on this Michigan trip. And JB didnt want to wear the matching outfits, IIRC from the ST book. I always felt like something happened in that area of the house first. I believe Thomas went thru the house much later (when it was empty) and tried to envision these various scenarios, to no avail. I figured the head trauma could have been from hitting the side of the tub or maybe the tub faucet but I think that was proven to not be probable.

I know some people think that its impossible for parents to do this to their child but I disagree. It happens all the time. I think it was an accident that escalated into murder. You posters here are very knowledgeable on the case, particularily with the DNA. I also remember thinking that Patsy, in her anger, could have somewhat violently rubbed JB off with a towel or whatever was handy, leaving some of the fiber evidence. Until I read Wecht's claims, I didnt think about a sex game gone bad. But I see that seems to be a popular opinion. I do think Patsy was quite capable of after-the-fact damage control and would not hestiate to do whatever it takes to make this appear IDI.

One more comment, I was looking at pics yesterday of the crime scene, family, etc. I came upone one of Patsy at JB's grave. She had knelt down on one knee and had her hands up around her neck. It really looked staged to me, feigning grief. How odd her hands were both in a "strangle" position. JMO

 

[DeeDee249]

Patsy stopped using the pull-ups, but that doesn't mean there weren't any in the house. I am sure she still had the package.
The police also wondered why a child of JB's age was still in diapers.
Although wetting the bed is not all that unusual and can with children even older than JB, it is different because bedwetters usually have NEVER been dry at night and wetting/soiling in the waking hours does not occur. And soiling the bed with fecal matter does not usually occur. It does, however, often happen when a child is being sexually abused.
It is also unusual for a child to REVERT to wetting and soiling after they have already been dry for YEARS. JB was dry for three years.

 

[Noodles]

Patsy stopped using the pull-ups, but that doesn't mean there weren't any in the house. I am sure she still had the package.
The police also wondered why a child of JB's age was still in diapers.
Although wetting the bed is not all that unusual and can with children even older than JB, it is different because bedwetters usually have NEVER been dry at night and wetting/soiling in the waking hours does not occur. And soiling the bed with fecal matter does not usually occur. It does, however, often happen when a child is being sexually abused.
It is also unusual for a child to REVERT to wetting and soiling after they have already been dry for YEARS. JB was dry for three years.

Didnt know JB was dry for three years, hmmmmm. Also I recall the maid (or whatever they called her) saying at one time she saw a "grapefruit" size piece of fecal matter in her bed. That was in the Thomas book I believe. I dont mean to sound gross, but I did wonder just exactly what she meant by that.

To use the term "grapefruit" IMO would indicate one big piece. But I have had idscussions with others who thought it was just a pile in her bed. Would someone use the term grapefruit to describe a pile? I dunno, that always had me wondering. My gosh, could JB even pass something that large?

 

[DeeDee249]

Didnt know JB was dry for three years, hmmmmm. Also I recall the maid (or whatever they called her) saying at one time she saw a "grapefruit" size piece of fecal matter in her bed. That was in the Thomas book I believe. I dont mean to sound gross, but I did wonder just exactly what she meant by that.

To use the term "grapefruit" IMO would indicate one big piece. But I have had idscussions with others who thought it was just a pile in her bed. Would someone use the term grapefruit to describe a pile? I dunno, that always had me wondering. My gosh, could JB even pass something that large?

I'd say it was a grapefruit-sized PILE, not a huge solid piece. I a sure it was just LHP's way of describing such a large amount.
That type of soiling the bed is common in abuse victims. It is a subconscious way of making the bed and themselves distasteful to the abuser. Abuse frequently, but not always, takes place when the abuser (commonly a family member or caregiver) comes into the child's bedroom at night.

 

[Noodles]

I'm sure you guys have seen this website before but its fairly new to me. It goes into great detail about all the possible suspects, even giving exculpatory evidence references. It also mentions different internet posters and their own theories (via posts) about who did it.

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/page/11682454/Burke Ramsey

I've always wondered about the phone call records. That was something never uncovered IIRC. That is like one of the FIRST things you look at in a case like this. A poster called Spade claims to have a friend who worked in intelligence for over 30 years. Apparently this person tried to get the phone records from 1996, was unsuccessful, and was also told to "leave this case alone." Hmmmm. Of course I dont take it all to heart but its an interesting comment. Since that would explain SO much.

I still think Patsy did it. The whole ransom note thing was laughable IMO. The note said dont call anyone and what do they do? Allegedly call everyone. Why would you do that if you were scared for your child? Just like sending Burke back to school after a few weeks. Wouldnt you be scared he could be kidnapped by these same people? J & P worked too much on staging JB and forgot about the surroundings. And this site also reminded me about the 991 call when (thru some sort of enhancement), authorities hear Burke speaking in the background (Pats thought the phone was hung up) when J & P clearly stated numerous times Burke was alseep.

 

[BBB167893]

For the past several days I have been asking myself about the fiber evidence and PR sweater. I do not recall when the sweater was turned over but do recall that PR walked out of the house with it on 12/26/96. So to me she could have purchased another one similiar but not exact as the one she actually wore.

I also have often wondered about the comment JBR made to a friend that Santa specifically stated to her that he was going to surprise her with a special visit "after Christmas". There was a Santa Suit recovered from the basement. Simply wondering how much of that suit was involved, if at all?

Link of the heart on JBR hand to the heart drawn on the Santa bear on JBR other twin bed???? Mention of twin bed, twin doll. The American Doll (if I recall correctly) that had a cord wrapped around it's neck. The black duct tape found on JBR placed after death identical match to the piece found on the picture over the dresser next to JBR bed. I don't believe in coincidence. Everything happens for a reason whether we understand it or not.

Anyone have a take on this? How about you SuperDave?

You call my name, and I appear!

I don't believe in coincidences either. Depending on how strong you think his command of English is, Henry Lee seemed to hint that the duct tape on her mouth was used; that is to say, it was taken off of something else. That would explain a few things, not the least of which being that it didn't really stick to JB's face.

As for the heart, it's the source of one of my favorite Patsy inconsistencies.