Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #11

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The ID show was so-so IMO... but if I were watching it and had no prior knowledge of the case - I would not convict AK or RS. It was clear there was nothing in MK's room to implicate them, and overwhelming evidence to implicate RG... Still, I had wished the show would have focused more on this, and had done a detailed analysis..

Something I did not know was that AK was interrogated all night long - till sometime past 5 in the morning, and that was after long day and waiting around all the while RS was being interrogated!
The only reason it appeared they let her leave was because she finally gave them what they wanted her to say.... PL"s name...

Then that lie was used against her, as reason to say she was guilty!
 
The ID show was so-so IMO... but if were watching it and had no prior knowledge of the case - I would not convict AK or RS.
Something I did not know was that AK was interrogated all night long - till sometime past 5 in the morning, and that was after long day and waiting around all the while RS was being interrogated!
The only reason it appeared they let her leave was because she finally gave them what they wanted her to say.... PL"s name...

Then that lie was used against her, as reason to say she was guilty!
thanks for this info, so it WAS true about being interrogated all those hours---Otto kept saying only 2. Of course it makes sense, she wanted to leave.....
 
Something else I had not thought about or realized till I saw the show -
though MK's bra was removed, she still was wearing her street cloths from her waist up - so what kind of sexual game play, or orgy takes place where a gal leaves her top on, and goes bottomless first and has her bra ripped off?
It was a violent attack from the start. MK had defensive wounds on her. She put up a fight.
The show should have pointed out that common sense would have had everyone who could have had contact or lived close to MK have their bodies checked for marks and bruises.
 
Something else I had not thought about or realized till I saw the show -
though MK's bra was removed, she still was wearing her street cloths from her waist up - so what kind of sexual game play, or orgy takes place where a gal leaves her top on, and goes bottomless first and has her bra ripped off?
It was a violent attack from the start. MK had defensive wounds on her. She put up a fight.
The show should have pointed out that common sense would have had everyone who could have had contact or lived close to MK have their bodies checked for marks and bruises.
Excellent point---you are correct, it sounds as though a lone male attacked her. And Guede left his evidence all over----I think it was a mistake for Mignini, once Guede was in the picture, to continue on this ridiculous idea of AK and RS in a sex game. The power of suggestion has now convinced millions of people. How horrible. Yes, where were Amanda's bruises?
 
Know what is truly sad? Is when the defense does a video, throws a rock through the window from down below to try and recreate how he would of done it, the rock actually lands quite close to where the original landed, then people take ONE picture of that test and state many things like he could not climb up it, what a stupid defense etc., when in fact this person did climb through that window. Yes it was presented at trial. Then the judge dismisses the expert, the BALLISTICS one as he merely studies the shooting of bullets not rocks

Shakes head


My understanding is that the defense did a video as well as took pictures which all were presented in court and yes he did get through the window


Just to clarify as well, it was the DNA experts that the court would not accept unless they were from Italy. Thus they are consulting/advising the Italian DNA experts and working with them.

The ballistics expert was Italian. The judge though dismissed his presentation of the breakin as he was not an expert in ROCK THROWING

He did a presentation that consisted of a video tape of how it was possible as well as photos ie to show where the rock landed.

Somehow that one picture went viral and it was then stated that even the person used in this could not get through the window just to name a few things that have been said but this was all presented at the trial.

So you're saying this person did climb through the window, but the only photo that was leaked/released/whatever was the one where he wasn't actually climbing through the window?? :waitasec: I wonder why I find that difficult to believe (not indicating you're lying Allusonz, but what you're stating I just can't swallow).
 
The show brought out the point that in Italy one has to prove their innocence once accused...

AK was believed by LE according to the show to have coaxed and encouraged RG and RS in the attack on MK...
 
The show brought out the point that in Italy one has to prove their innocence once accused...

AK was believed by LE according to the show to have coaxed and encouraged RG and RS in the attack on MK...
Well, it is possible, but where is the firm evidence to back it up? There isn't any. If there were, then yes, I could believe that such an event might take place. But without the evidence.....well, the burden of proof is supposedly on the prosecution here, but I think many accused people here are also guilty until proven innocent.
 








So you're saying this person did climb through the window, but the only photo that was leaked/released/whatever was the one where he wasn't actually climbing through the window?? :waitasec: I wonder why I find that difficult to believe (not indicating you're lying Allusonz, but what you're stating I just can't swallow).

I must ask does no one on the pro guilt side ever look anything up? This was presented at trial, is in fact part of the Motivational Report that everyone states they read.

I have been accused many times this week of not doing my research and I must admit I am becoming cranky

I hope these are enough cites


The reconstruction

He made a reconstruction throwing a rock of the same weight on a window of which the left part had the same measures than the original one.
The reconstruction confirmed what always seemed obvious, that the glass falls inside but also on the external part of the sill, as it happened in the actual event.

The conclusion is again that the rock can have been thrown only from the outside. Exactly from the angle of the garden in front of the window. With the thrower standing outside the fence and throwing the rock with one hand.
To support this hypothesis the Marshall filmed his reconstruction with a window set on a room with inside a bed and a desk of the same dimensions.

The film showed three throws to the left side of the window from a distance equal to the presumed original (3 meters) and they all resulted a similar distribution of the glass on the floor and on the internal and external sill, as in the actual case. They also resulted fragments of glass stick into the fibers of the wood, as in the actual case The conclusion is again that the rock can have been thrown only from the outside. Exactly from the angle of the garden in front of the window. With the thrower standing outside the fence and throwing the rock with one hand.

To support this hypothesis the Marshall filmed his reconstruction with a window set on a room with inside a bed and a desk of the same dimensions.

The film showed three throws to the left side of the window from a distance equal to the presumed original (3 meters) and they all resulted a similar distribution of the glass on the floor and on the internal and external sill, as in the actual case. They also resulted fragments of glass stick into the fibers of the wood, as in the actual case

http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009/07/carabiniere-to-save-raffaele-sollecito.html

The window broken at the “house of horrors” on the night Meredith Kercher was murdered in Perugia, Italy, doesn’t present the climbing challenge of the Eiger’s North Face. No agile person need fear that brick wall. Even the Man in the Gray Flannel Suit, wearing slippery street shoes of fine Italian leather, could scale it. We still await proof that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito broke it, to make the homicide look like a botched robbery attempt, allegedly to frame Rudy Guede, already sentenced to 30 years for murder and sexual assault.

Defense expert Francesco Pasquali shattered that popular climbing myth in the trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito this weekend. The retired forensics officer Pasquali used a video to demonstrate that a burglar could have thrown a 4 kg. rock through the window from the outside, not from the inside as the prosecution maintains.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2009/07/

A consultant for the defense in the trial of U.S. student Amanda Knox used a video presentation today to show the court in Perugia, Italy, that Knox and co-defendant Raffaele Sollecito had not faked a break-in at the murder scene of her British roommate, as prosecutors allege Francesco Pasquali, a retired forensic police officer hired as a consultant by Sollecito's defense, presented a video in court that included three different scenarios showing how the rock could have been thrown from the outside to break the window, located 13 feet off the ground.

According to Pasquali, the rock was thrown from a terrace across from the window, making the glass "explode" on the inside and spreading glass fragments everywhere on the inside and the outside of the windowsill

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=7995762


But retired police forensic officer Vincenzo Pasquali will use a video and ballistic measurements to tell the court the window was smashed from the outside and was not simulated.

Pasquali will also tell the court how it was possible for someone to enter the house through the broken window, which was 13 feet above ground

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529951,00.html

But retired police forensic officer Vincenzo Pasquali will use a video and ballistic measurements to tell the court the window was smashed from the outside and was not simulated.

Mr Pasquali will also tell the court how it was possible for someone to enter the house through the broken window, which was four metres (13ft) above ground.

The court has already heard how 21-year-old Guede, a small-time drug dealer, was known to carry a knife.

It was also told he carried out a series of break-ins in the weeks leading up to the murder in November 2007.

Among these was a burglary at a lawyer's office, in which he climbed through a window four and a half metres (15ft) above ground - higher than that smashed at the murder scene

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...-To-Divert-Detectives/Article/200907115328274
 
Why? They saw how AK behaved first hand, they heard the lies, they saw the fake break-in. AK was the only roommate in town with a key. What do you know about the frictions between MK and AK? How can you say those were normal? How can you say it was extreme if you weren't even there? I can understand the roommates were suspicious. The investigation only confirmed their worst fears. JMO.

BBM

Could I have a cite for this please
 
The show brought out the point that in Italy one has to prove their innocence once accused...

AK was believed by LE according to the show to have coaxed and encouraged RG and RS in the attack on MK...

Thanks for the info on this I was not able to watch the show thus appreciate the run down you have given so far :)
 
I didn't make any decisions on this part. The roommates and friends know much better the exact details about the frictions than me. Besides I believe the point was that the roommates did something bad by mentioning the friction? They are called to testify and shouldn't tell the truth about the accused? Whatever.

The friends remarks are considered hearsay. As well the versions with respect to the friction changes from their first statements to the trial
 
The friends remarks are considered hearsay. As well the versions with respect to the friction changes from their first statements to the trial
What were the changes? I really somehow missed these. thanks
 
This is how I'll do it

"I like to thank everyone who found my posts helpful, and those who certainly did NOT. I'd like to thank Salem, cause he gave us much latitude. But especially, I want to thank Flourish, who got me to listen to what my poo was telling me."

Oh I am dying of laughter here :giggle:

Very nicely done :)
 
What were the changes? I really somehow missed these. thanks

This was more evident in the UK friends that were all flew in to give testimony. (IIRC especially Ms. Butterworth's statement versus what was testified to)
 
This was more evident in the UK friends that were all flew in to give testimony. (IIRC especially Ms. Butterworth's statement versus what was testified to)
Oh, I know she testified about AK cuddling RS at the police station, and seeming unmoved, and saying MK had bled to death. But how is this different from her original statement?
 
I must ask does no one on the pro guilt side ever look anything up? This was presented at trial, is in fact part of the Motivational Report that everyone states they read.

I have been accused many times this week of not doing my research and I must admit I am becoming cranky

I hope these are enough cites


The reconstruction

He made a reconstruction throwing a rock of the same weight on a window of which the left part had the same measures than the original one.
The reconstruction confirmed what always seemed obvious, that the glass falls inside but also on the external part of the sill, as it happened in the actual event.

The conclusion is again that the rock can have been thrown only from the outside. Exactly from the angle of the garden in front of the window. With the thrower standing outside the fence and throwing the rock with one hand.
To support this hypothesis the Marshall filmed his reconstruction with a window set on a room with inside a bed and a desk of the same dimensions.

The film showed three throws to the left side of the window from a distance equal to the presumed original (3 meters) and they all resulted a similar distribution of the glass on the floor and on the internal and external sill, as in the actual case. They also resulted fragments of glass stick into the fibers of the wood, as in the actual case The conclusion is again that the rock can have been thrown only from the outside. Exactly from the angle of the garden in front of the window. With the thrower standing outside the fence and throwing the rock with one hand.

To support this hypothesis the Marshall filmed his reconstruction with a window set on a room with inside a bed and a desk of the same dimensions.

The film showed three throws to the left side of the window from a distance equal to the presumed original (3 meters) and they all resulted a similar distribution of the glass on the floor and on the internal and external sill, as in the actual case. They also resulted fragments of glass stick into the fibers of the wood, as in the actual case

http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009/07/carabiniere-to-save-raffaele-sollecito.html

The window broken at the “house of horrors” on the night Meredith Kercher was murdered in Perugia, Italy, doesn’t present the climbing challenge of the Eiger’s North Face. No agile person need fear that brick wall. Even the Man in the Gray Flannel Suit, wearing slippery street shoes of fine Italian leather, could scale it. We still await proof that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito broke it, to make the homicide look like a botched robbery attempt, allegedly to frame Rudy Guede, already sentenced to 30 years for murder and sexual assault.

Defense expert Francesco Pasquali shattered that popular climbing myth in the trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito this weekend. The retired forensics officer Pasquali used a video to demonstrate that a burglar could have thrown a 4 kg. rock through the window from the outside, not from the inside as the prosecution maintains.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2009/07/

A consultant for the defense in the trial of U.S. student Amanda Knox used a video presentation today to show the court in Perugia, Italy, that Knox and co-defendant Raffaele Sollecito had not faked a break-in at the murder scene of her British roommate, as prosecutors allege Francesco Pasquali, a retired forensic police officer hired as a consultant by Sollecito's defense, presented a video in court that included three different scenarios showing how the rock could have been thrown from the outside to break the window, located 13 feet off the ground.

According to Pasquali, the rock was thrown from a terrace across from the window, making the glass "explode" on the inside and spreading glass fragments everywhere on the inside and the outside of the windowsill

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=7995762


But retired police forensic officer Vincenzo Pasquali will use a video and ballistic measurements to tell the court the window was smashed from the outside and was not simulated.

Pasquali will also tell the court how it was possible for someone to enter the house through the broken window, which was 13 feet above ground

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529951,00.html

But retired police forensic officer Vincenzo Pasquali will use a video and ballistic measurements to tell the court the window was smashed from the outside and was not simulated.

Mr Pasquali will also tell the court how it was possible for someone to enter the house through the broken window, which was four metres (13ft) above ground.

The court has already heard how 21-year-old Guede, a small-time drug dealer, was known to carry a knife.

It was also told he carried out a series of break-ins in the weeks leading up to the murder in November 2007.

Among these was a burglary at a lawyer's office, in which he climbed through a window four and a half metres (15ft) above ground - higher than that smashed at the murder scene

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wo...-To-Divert-Detectives/Article/200907115328274

You mean you're not my personal researcher??? Dang it, that's one bottle of wine I'm taking out of the stash labeled "Allusonz." :)
It's not that I am not willing to go look for it, I just figured with all the hubbub and the posting of the picture of the ATTEMPT at climbing the window, that surely someone would know where the other pictures were posted and would post them.
On a break at work, will read the rest of your post later. And, uh, I have done some of my own research, geez, please don't lump me with everyone else...I'm super unique! :)

eta: you should know from my poo posts that I'm not afraid to get dirty;) LOL
Also, can you find any quote from me saying I've read the motivation report? Cuz...I'll openly admit I've only read parts of it. Go ahead and attack me for that, misinformed crazy girl that I am;)
 
Excellent point---you are correct, it sounds as though a lone male attacked her. And Guede left his evidence all over----I think it was a mistake for Mignini, once Guede was in the picture, to continue on this ridiculous idea of AK and RS in a sex game. The power of suggestion has now convinced millions of people. How horrible. Yes, where were Amanda's bruises?

The fact that MK had defensive wounds doesn't necessarily indicate she was able to inflict physical damage on her attacker or attackers. Defensive wounds is just that-defensive. If she put up her hands while she was defending herself that would leave defensive wounds on her.
If she were actually able to scratch someone they should have been able to get skin cells from under her fingernails.
 
The fact that MK had defensive wounds doesn't necessarily indicate she was able to inflict physical damage on her attacker or attackers. Defensive wounds is just that-defensive. If she put up her hands while she was defending herself that would leave defensive wounds on her.
If she were actually able to scratch someone they should have been able to get skin cells from under her fingernails.
Right - I understand that defensive wounds simply mean one holds one's hands up, to ward off blows or protect face, neck----does not mean you bit, scratched, kicked, etc. I still believe this could have been at the hands of Guede soley, and there is nothing in her wounds which show more than one attacker. In the Massei Report, an explanation is given of why it had to be more than one attacker, and it seems like just speculation, and unconvincing.
 
The fact that MK had defensive wounds doesn't necessarily indicate she was able to inflict physical damage on her attacker or attackers. Defensive wounds is just that-defensive. If she put up her hands while she was defending herself that would leave defensive wounds on her.
If she were actually able to scratch someone they should have been able to get skin cells from under her fingernails.

One way to find out is to check all individuals who might have been involved, and that did not seem to have been done. If it was it wasn't made public...

If what I read that MK studied self-defense, she might have gotten some good kicks in (which I really hope she did!!)
 
One way to find out is to check all individuals who might have been involved, and that did not seem to have been done. If it was it wasn't made public...

If what I read that MK studied self-defense, she might have gotten some good kicks in (which I really hope she did!!)
Right---it says right in the Massei Report that Kercher's family said she was athletic, trained in karate, strong willed and serious, and would not have taken kindly to any attack. So it is odd they did not check for bruises. And Rudy was arrested weeks later, so may have been too late for him.
 
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