Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #11

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Gotta say, the only thing that still makes any sense is the simplest theory - RG was surprised to see MK come home and took advantage of her in a brutal attack and rape. All credible evidence found in MK's room supports this, nothing else.
 
Thinking of this scenario, I can imagine RG saying that they were there to water the plants or something, and that would tip MK off as she knew only she had been asked to do so and only she had been given the key. One thing, why would Guede go upstairs again, if the 3 of them were there to steal the plants? Because he heard MK come home? Why not just stay quiet?
 
Gotta say, the only thing that still makes any sense is the simplest theory - RG was surprised to see MK come home and took advantage of her in a brutal attack and rape.
You are so right. All other scenarios are complicated, convoluted, and raise tons of questions. The lone wolf robber covers all the bases ----except WHY did AK and RS so arouse suspicion that 3 1/2 years later they are where they are? I want to believe it was something more than Mignini's craziness, but its hard.....
 
You are so right. All other scenarios are complicated, convoluted, and raise tons of questions. The lone wolf robber covers all the bases ----except WHY did AK and RS so arouse suspicion that 3 1/2 years later they are where they are? I want to believe it was something more than Mignini's craziness, but its hard.....

Because of AK's complete lack of understanding and not caring about legal implications, the feelings/customs of Italy, etc.. she did just about everything wrong a person could do in staying out of legal/media trouble.

How naive (dumb?) was she to go along with RS for his questioning.... in the evening no less after a long day, and then sitting around waiting all the while he was there, and then letting herself be grilled till after 5 in morning with no lawyer, no video taping....

The beauty of that is once you make a false accusation, then you are forever more a liar in the eyes of the law!
 
Because of AK's complete lack of understanding and not caring about legal implications, the feelings/customs of Italy, etc.. she did just about everything wrong a person could do in staying out of legal/media trouble.

How naive (dumb?) was she to go along with RS for his questioning.... in the evening no less after a long day, and then sitting around waiting all the while he was there, and then letting herself be grilled till after 5 in morning with no lawyer, no video taping....

The beauty of that is once you make a false accusation, then you are forever more a liar in the eyes of the law!
Exactly. I had forgotten, she actually tagged along with Raffaele, and did not need to be there at all. If only she had been told by her mother or someone, to not go, and to secure a lawyer. But as she had the consciousness of innocence, she had no idea what was awaiting her. Her life is ruined, as is Raffaele's, and the whole thing is so ugly if you stop and ponder it. I believe all interrogations should be required to be video taped, in this era of technology.
 
As I recall her mother was trying to convince her to return to US. Had she done so, it is probably very unlikely she would have ended up in Italian prison.
 
As I recall her mother was trying to convince her to return to US. Had she done so, it is probably very unlikely she would have ended up in Italian prison.
You recall correctly and her not listening to her mother was a
"Sliding Doors" moment if ever there was one!

Sliding Doors - reference to the movie http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120148/plotsummary whereby doing one thing different in one's life changes the path one's life takes from that point on....
 
Thinking of this scenario, I can imagine RG saying that they were there to water the plants or something, and that would tip MK off as she knew only she had been asked to do so and only she had been given the key. One thing, why would Guede go upstairs again, if the 3 of them were there to steal the plants? Because he heard MK come home? Why not just stay quiet?

You know it's not my theory, right? It was just an interesting one that some guilters were talking about on another board. I'm having problems making it fit and oldsteve certainly has a point. It's just time to explore AK and RS guilt scenerios because some here believe they did it.

I don't know how ot make the scenerio work perfectly. In the question you asked, I was saying maybe he was in the bathroom upstairs BEFORE AK and RS found the downstairs keys. Once the keys were found, RS and AK called to RG, who was still in the bathroom, and said to meet them downstairs when he was done.

Or how about this.

AK encountered RG in the square and they somehow hatched this plan to get the plants. RG might have wanted to sell them. AK might have just wanted to get high. She tells RS to meet her at the house.

Her and RG go in the house, and he goes to the bathroom as she looks for the keys. She finds keys and RG remains in bathroom until he has done his business, but AK heads on downstairs. MK returns homse and RG is there. There is no car in the driveway, she thinks it's a robbery. They fight. RS arrives to meet AK. he enters the house and sees the confrontation as RG described. RG runs out of the house and AK is outside. She goes in to see RS tending to MK. They cover MK decide to stage the scene because---What?

But it was a good shot at trying to make them guilty without the absurb sex game thing, where RS and AK hold MK down for RG's benefit. I just dont understand that logic, for real. Unless AK and RS like being---well, I don't know if i can say the word on here, but--cuckhold.
 
As I recall her mother was trying to convince her to return to US. Had she done so, it is probably very unlikely she would have ended up in Italian prison.

and that's really what I don't understand about it. She keeps says she didn't WANT to return home. and she said she also had to stay for the investigation. I personally don't think a murderer would react that way. I'd assume she welcome the chance to get out of the country.
 
You know it's not my theory, right? It was just an interesting one that some guilters were talking about on another board. I'm having problems making it fit and oldsteve certainly has a point. It's just time to explore AK and RS guilt scenerios because some here believe they did it.

I don't know how ot make the scenerio work perfectly. In the question you asked, I was saying maybe he was in the bathroom upstairs BEFORE AK and RS found the downstairs keys. Once the keys were found, RS and AK called to RG, who was still in the bathroom, and said to meet them downstairs when he was done.

Or how about this.

AK encountered RG in the square and they somehow hatched this plan to get the plants. RG might have wanted to sell them. AK might have just wanted to get high. She tells RS to meet her at the house.

Her and RG go in the house, and he goes to the bathroom as she looks for the keys. She finds keys and RG remains in bathroom until he has done his business, but AK heads on downstairs. MK returns homse and RG is there. There is no car in the driveway, she thinks it's a robbery. They fight. RS arrives to meet AK. he enters the house and sees the confrontation as RG described. RG runs out of the house and AK is outside. She goes in to see RS tending to MK. They cover MK decide to stage the scene because---What?

But it was a good shot at trying to make them guilty without the absurb sex game thing, where RS and AK hold MK down for RG's benefit. I just dont understand that logic, for real. Unless AK and RS like being---well, I don't know if i can say the word on here, but--cuckhold.
Oh, I am perfectly aware that you saw the theory on PMF - I have seen some odd theories out there, and I like to explore them for one reason: I would rather think AK and RS are in the position they are in due to their own bad behavior, than that Mignini was able to put 2 innocent youth away. Of course, I am never convinced they were involved, and always come back to viewing them as innocent, but I sure try. I suppose if RG decided to knife and rape MK (MUCH more believable if he was a lone wolf robber) AK (with or w/o RS) might not call police if they were there to rob downstairs. But they were robbing something illegal in the first place, so even MK would not have called the police. As Old Steve says, to make them seem guilty, you have to jump thru some crazy hoops....
 
and that's really what I don't understand about it. She keeps says she didn't WANT to return home. and she said she also had to stay for the investigation. I personally don't think a murderer would react that way. I'd assume she welcome the chance to get out of the country.
Riiight! Consciousness of innocence!
 
Sniped this one line:
She goes in to see RS tending to MK.

I know you're just pondering scenarios.... so I am not criticizing you...
No evidence of RS in the MK's room - with all the blood, he would have left prints, disturbed the blood splatter, etc.... if he tried to clean it up, that would show too, and no way for him to just remove his presence and leave RG's...

One simple scenario I think of and actually believe might be true is of RS and AK being so stoned they are in a stupor and actually see RG brutally attack and murder MK and being so high they don't do anything to stop RG... in their trace-like state, either RS or AK locks MK's door to put the bad dream behind them...
I wonder if Otto would agree with me on this one.. speaking of whom, where is he? Nova too?
 
Sniped this one line:


I know you're just pondering scenarios.... so I am not criticizing you...
No evidence of RS in the MK's room - with all the blood, he would have left prints, disturbed the blood splatter, etc.... if he tried to clean it up, that would show too, and no way for him to just remove his presence and leave RG's...

One simple scenario I think of and actually believe might be true is of RS and AK being so stoned they are in a stupor and actually see RG brutally attack and murder MK and being so high they don't do anything to stop RG... in their trace-like state, either RS or AK locks MK's door to put the bad dream behind them...
I wonder if Otto would agree with me on this one.. speaking of whom, where is he? Nova too?

Yes, that could be a theory which is somewhat easy enough to believe. Or that they did not do anything, and then sobered up, and covered her and locked the door. I too wonder where Otto is, Nova was around last p.m. One thing which confused me: I was looking at a couple of old articles last night with Laura and other friends' testimony and statements, and it was said twice, that Knox had been talking on a cellphone, telling people back home, "Meredith was found wrapped in a blanket, in the closet/wardrobe, with one foot hanging out." Of course, we know MK was on the floor in front of the wardrobe, covered, with one foot showing. Wouldn't this seem to point to Amanda NOT being the one who covered her and locked the door? Or was she cleverly telling it wrongly???:waitasec:
 
Oh, I am perfectly aware that you saw the theory on PMF - I have seen some odd theories out there, and I like to explore them for one reason: I would rather think AK and RS are in the position they are in due to their own bad behavior, than that Mignini was able to put 2 innocent youth away. Of course, I am never convinced they were involved, and always come back to viewing them as innocent, but I sure try. I suppose if RG decided to knife and rape MK (MUCH more believable if he was a lone wolf robber) AK (with or w/o RS) might not call police if they were there to rob downstairs. But they were robbing something illegal in the first place, so even MK would not have called the police. As Old Steve says, to make them seem guilty, you have to jump thru some crazy hoops....

Yeah I agree with you. The only thing I can expound upon about the MK calling or not calling the police thing is to say that RG was the wild card. IF this scenerio had been true, and it had been just RS and Ak, then MK would have survived because they all just would have argued, probably. But RG, not knowing what to do with MK upon her finding him, tried to subdue her. AK and RS wouldn't have to do that. So that's how I see that scenerio, but I cannot see how that scenerio would devolve into rape or sexual assault.

They had another CRAZY theory on some website, it might have been PMF, but I can't remember. It was about the trio locking MK downstairs and then going outside and then coming back and taking her back upstairs. I think it was the same theory, now that I remember. They were saying the trio wanted the drugs and somehow locked up MK and then came back after they figured out what to do with her. All that was really insane. If I can find it again, I can post it, so you can see, but the only part of the theory that made any kind of sense was maybe the trio could have teamed up to steal the drugs.
 
Sniped this one line:


I know you're just pondering scenarios.... so I am not criticizing you...
No evidence of RS in the MK's room - with all the blood, he would have left prints, disturbed the blood splatter, etc.... if he tried to clean it up, that would show too, and no way for him to just remove his presence and leave RG's...

One simple scenario I think of and actually believe might be true is of RS and AK being so stoned they are in a stupor and actually see RG brutally attack and murder MK and being so high they don't do anything to stop RG... in their trace-like state, either RS or AK locks MK's door to put the bad dream behind them...
I wonder if Otto would agree with me on this one.. speaking of whom, where is he? Nova too?

I understand, but under the actual REAL scenerio, there is nothing in that room to indicate RS's presence yet he sits in jail for the murder. I was linking him to being in there as a way to figure out how he could have touched the bra clasp (in my mind, probably didn't type that part out, so sorry about that.)

I haven't seen Otto in about a week. Nova, I think popped in last night.
 
Yes, that could be a theory which is somewhat easy enough to believe. Or that they did not do anything, and then sobered up, and covered her and locked the door. I too wonder where Otto is, Nova was around last p.m. One thing which confused me: I was looking at a couple of old articles last night with Laura and other friends' testimony and statements, and it was said twice, that Knox had been talking on a cellphone, telling people back home, "Meredith was found wrapped in a blanket, in the closet/wardrobe, with one foot hanging out." Of course, we know MK was on the floor in front of the wardrobe, covered, with one foot showing. Wouldn't this seem to point to Amanda NOT being the one who covered her and locked the door? Or was she cleverly telling it wrongly???:waitasec:

I know where this came from. AK explains it in her testimony from PMF:

GM: From what Frost, Meredith's friend, said, and the others, we heard that you,
or Sollecito, claimed to have seen the body in the closet, covered with a
sheet, and nothing could be seen but a foot. Now if you hadn't seen the room,
and Raffaele hadn't seen it either, how could you make this observation?
How could you -- I'm asking another question -- and how could this closet
contain Meredith's body? You know the closet, right? I have a black and
white photo of it here. Here. This closet.

AK: All right. Firstly, I think Frost made a little mistake, because I never
said that I saw Meredith's body in the closet. I said that I had heard people
around me saying that there was a body in the closet, that was covered, with a
foot sticking out. I too was confused by this, but that's what I heard.
But when people kept on asking me what happened, what they had found, I
answered what I had heard.

GM: Or what Raffaele told you.

AK: Raffaele, or the people he was asking for me.

GM: Why do you say, or rather, it's the lawyer who says, he was speaking for
you right then: "She confirmed that Raffaele heard from other people that
maybe this was the version." Page 78 of my... Do you remember this?
And also page 79.

AK: Do I remember that interrogation?

GM: Yes.

AK: I remember the fact that Raffaele was asking the people around us what they
had seen.

GM: Look, on page 79 you say: "I understand, I understand. He said precisely:
'Apparently there's a girl, there's the body of a girl in the closet, but
the only thing you can see is her foot.' " You say that Raffaele said this.

AK: Yes.

GM: You confirm it.

AK: I confirm that as we understood from the people around us, there was this
fact about the closet, a body in the closet.

GM: But it's Raffaele who said it to you, not the people around.

AK: But--

GM: You said that the people around you told it to him.

AK: Raffaele was the person who was helping me to understand what they were
saying. He spoke to me, explaining everything that was happening, because in
the end, I was in shock and also I didn't understand.

GM: So, who were these people who said this to Raffaele?

AK: We were all asking each other, because there was Filomena's friend, who had
maybe obviously heard it from the police, but it's not like a followed
exactly where the information was coming from. Everyone was talking.
Everyone was giving explanations and versions and information, and I kept
turning to Raffaele because at least he understood the language. I didn't
even understand...

GM: Raffaele didn't tell you who told him?

AK: No, but he was explaining to me above all what I asked him: what happened,
what was in the room, those things.


If you need more, go to this link and click: edit, find on this page, and then type in "foot."

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=165
 
Have you read this steve moore's evaluation of Ak's declaration?

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/FBI7.html

Thanks!

Sniped from what he says:
"What took place bore more resemblance to the Inquisition than to an interrogation." !!!

For 8 hours! OMG! Overnight. Without food or water. In a police station. In a foreign country. In a foreign language. By a dozen different officers. Without being allowed a lawyer.
 
I know where this came from. AK explains it in her testimony from PMF:

GM: From what Frost, Meredith's friend, said, and the others, we heard that you,
or Sollecito, claimed to have seen the body in the closet, covered with a
sheet, and nothing could be seen but a foot. Now if you hadn't seen the room,
and Raffaele hadn't seen it either, how could you make this observation?
How could you -- I'm asking another question -- and how could this closet
contain Meredith's body? You know the closet, right? I have a black and
white photo of it here. Here. This closet.

AK: All right. Firstly, I think Frost made a little mistake, because I never
said that I saw Meredith's body in the closet. I said that I had heard people
around me saying that there was a body in the closet, that was covered, with a
foot sticking out. I too was confused by this, but that's what I heard.
But when people kept on asking me what happened, what they had found, I
answered what I had heard.

GM: Or what Raffaele told you.

AK: Raffaele, or the people he was asking for me.

GM: Why do you say, or rather, it's the lawyer who says, he was speaking for
you right then: "She confirmed that Raffaele heard from other people that
maybe this was the version." Page 78 of my... Do you remember this?
And also page 79.

AK: Do I remember that interrogation?

GM: Yes.

AK: I remember the fact that Raffaele was asking the people around us what they
had seen.

GM: Look, on page 79 you say: "I understand, I understand. He said precisely:
'Apparently there's a girl, there's the body of a girl in the closet, but
the only thing you can see is her foot.' " You say that Raffaele said this.

AK: Yes.

GM: You confirm it.

AK: I confirm that as we understood from the people around us, there was this
fact about the closet, a body in the closet.

GM: But it's Raffaele who said it to you, not the people around.

AK: But--

GM: You said that the people around you told it to him.

AK: Raffaele was the person who was helping me to understand what they were
saying. He spoke to me, explaining everything that was happening, because in
the end, I was in shock and also I didn't understand.

GM: So, who were these people who said this to Raffaele?

AK: We were all asking each other, because there was Filomena's friend, who had
maybe obviously heard it from the police, but it's not like a followed
exactly where the information was coming from. Everyone was talking.
Everyone was giving explanations and versions and information, and I kept
turning to Raffaele because at least he understood the language. I didn't
even understand...

GM: Raffaele didn't tell you who told him?

AK: No, but he was explaining to me above all what I asked him: what happened,
what was in the room, those things.


If you need more, go to this link and click: edit, find on this page, and then type in "foot."

http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=165

Thanks so much for this - well, she seems genuinely to have been hearing what others said.
 
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