Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox Conviction Overturned #22

[Clearly Confused]

I have been lurking in the background for most of this case but I have to say someone posted a link for a site PMF. All I have to say is WOW!hwow: I knew I was in the wrong place when a paragraph started like this:

If we are to square the conviction (and by we they mean the posters).

Back to hiding in the background.

 

[SMK]

Amanda Knox 'could donate book and TV deal money to Meredith Kercher'

Amanda Knox will consider donating some of the proceeds of her expected book and television deal to Meredith Kercher's family, her relatives have suggested.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ok-and-TV-deal-money-to-Meredith-Kercher.html

Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito to reunited before Christmas

Amanda Knox will be visited by her former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito in Seattle before Christmas.

The Knox family have invited Mr Sollecito to stay in Seattle.
Mr Maori said his client would take up the offer but was currently "shaken and afraid to go out."
He said Mr Sollecito "needs to get back on his feet and resume a normal life" before travelling.

Mr Knox said that his daughter and Mr Sollecito had been able to speak together once after they were cleared.
He said: "The only time they really got to talk was after the verdict, when they were getting ready to be whisked away in the cars.
"They actually went back to the prison in the same car. They hold something in common that very, very few people have ever had to deal with."
Mr Knox earlier said his daughter has "an extraordinarily large number of journals" and indicated they would stack up to 3ft high and were brought back from Italy in a suitcase. He added that she has a habit of occasionally slipping back into Italian, a language in which she is now fluent

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...e-Sollecito-to-reunited-before-Christmas.html

 

[SMK]

All along I maintained the suspicion of Knox did not stem from antiAmericanism, and now Hellman just said he thinks it does::furious:

Hellmann said: "I cannot affirm that Rudy Guede is the only one who knows what happened that night." But he added: "He certainly knows and hasn't said. Perhaps the two [other] accused, Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, also know."

Commenting on protests outside the court in Perugia after the verdict was announced, the judge observed that many Italians had already decided on Knox's guilt. "I think it stems from [her] American nationality," he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/06/amanda-knox-judge-responsible?newsfeed=true

 

[Madeleine74]

I'm glad AK and RS have been able to speak, at least a bit, since being acquitted. I think what they both went through will bond them for life and only they can (I believe) provide a certain type of emotional support in that each totally understands how horrific the last 4 yrs were for them.

I truly hope they do get to reunite and get to spend some quality time together...I think of it as good therapy for each, and something that can be healing for each of them.

I applaud the Mellas' for extending that offer to RS and his family; it is what I would have hoped for.

Also, it warms my heart that the Knox/Mellas family continues to think of Meredith and look for ways to honor her memory.

Though the Kercher family was terribly mislead by the prosecutor in the case, I hope they come to understand that AK and RS are not their daughter's enemy and each family has suffered for the actions of one Rudy Guede and the Italian law enforcement system. The kercher family needs to understand that the perpetrator of this murder *is* behind bars...for not long enough...but at least there.

 

[SMK]

I'm glad AK and RS have been able to speak, at least a bit, since being acquitted. I think what they both went through will bond them for life and only they can (I believe) provide a certain type of emotional support in that each totally understands how horrific the last 4 yrs were for them.

I truly hope they do get to reunite and get to spend some quality time together...I think of it as good therapy for each, and something that can be healing for each of them.

I applaud the Mellas' for extending that offer to RS and his family; it is what I would have hoped for.

Also, it warms my heart that the Knox/Mellas family continues to think of Meredith and look for ways to honor her memory.

Though the Kercher family was terribly mislead by the prosecutor in the case, I hope they come to understand that AK and RS are not their daughter's enemy and each family has suffered for the actions of one Rudy Guede and the Italian law enforcement system. The kercher family needs to understand that the perpetrator of this murder *is* behind bars...for not long enough...but at least there.

I hope they can come to understand, also - but if they continue to listen to the 2 major sites which supposedly supported them, they will be encouraged to believe that Hellman has made a grave error, and let 2 killers walk free. I think they are smarter than that, though...

 

[believe09]

It is completely and totally inappropriate to call out other posters on positions they have taken in the past. The verdict is what it is. Deal with each other's points of view respectfully please. Discuss the post, not the poster.

 

[MrsWendy]

All along I maintained the suspicion of Knox did not stem from antiAmericanism, and now Hellman just said he thinks it does::furious:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/06/amanda-knox-judge-responsible?newsfeed=true

It's possible that anti-Americanism could have had a slight affect on people's opinions. But I suspect that the larger reason is due to the barrage of salacious and unflattering details about AK that were leaked to the press shortly after the murder. Not to mention the release of many incriminating facts against her, even though they ultimately did not hold up to scrutiny.

The police and prosector did a thorough job of shaping initial public opinion. It's an unfortunate fact that for many people their initial opinion usually trumps subsequent facts.

 

[flourish]

<modsnip> may have been released, but she's still a liar.

AK: "I did not kill. I did not rape. I did not steal."

This is a flat out lie and I have proof, because Amanda has stolen my heart like a thief in the night.

I wonder how the <modsnip> will answer this.

What or who is an "<modsnip>"?????

 

[believe09]

You are making the mods very tired, me in particular.

Address the post and not the poster.

Here are the rules for those who need a refresher:

Dealing with your fellow poster.

 

[otto]

This verdict is as controversial as that of Anthony. There was an uproar on the streets when the appeal verdict was announced, and now this:

"Amanda Knox has been bombarded with hate mail since being released from prison after her conviction for murdering Meredith Kercher was overturned on appeal.

Since Knox was released from an Italian prison, where she served four years for Kercher&#8217;s brutal murder, she and her Seattle based family have received "disgusting" letters containing "things you would not want to have said about your daughter," her father Curt told The Sun.

&#8220;There have also been phone calls,&#8221; the company finance director added.

...

*advertiser censored* company Vivid Entertainment even offered her a job as a spokeswoman."

http://www.tntmagazine.com/tnt-today/archive/2011/10/07/amanda-knox-bombarded-with-hate-mail.aspx

 

[nursebeeme]

You are making the mods very tired, me in particular.

Address the post and not the poster.

Here are the rules for those who need a refresher:

Dealing with your fellow poster.

-----------------------------------> what she said! :rocker:

 

[otto]

otto,

Ms. Knox wrote, "And I stand by my statements that I made last night about events that could have taken place in my home with Patrik, but I want to make very clear that these events seem more unreal to me that what I said before, that I stayed at Raffaele's house." The second clause contradicts the first, and I suspect that is the point that Malkmus was making.

I'm a little surprised that there is so much confusion regarding the difference between a "phase" and a "sentence". I was pointing out the most significant phrase in the voluntary statement provided by Knox where she implicated herself in the murder. That phrase referenced two previous statements that were not admissable in court, but which gave more detailed information about Knox's participation in the murder. In her original statements, she included that fact that she heard Meredith scream, a scream that was so horrible she put her fingers in her ears to block the sound. That scream was heard by a neighbour.

The fact that Knox, during trial testimony, tried to white wash her statements by claiming that she was having confused imaginings and difficulty distinguishing between dream and reality does not, in my opinion, elliminate the significance of the phrase claiming that she stands behind her remarks regarding Patrick.

 

[otto]

Nancy Grace weighs in, finally:

"Nancy Grace, HLN host and ... told Access Hollywood that she was &#8220;very disturbed, because I think it is a huge miscarriage of justice,&#8221; when asked about the release of Amanda Knox.

Grace said, &#8220;I believe that while Amanda Knox did not wield the knife herself, I think that she was there, with her boyfriend, and that he did the deed, and that she egged him on. That&#8217;s what I think happened.

...

[People] want to believe [that Amanda Knox is innocent] and I don&#8217;t blame them,&#8221; she explained. &#8220;I&#8217;d like to believe it too, I just happen to know the facts.&#8221;

http://www.thirdage.com/news/nancy-...x-release-a-miscarriage-of-justice_10-07-2011


"If Grace's crisp verdict on the matter sounds familiar, that's because her reaction to another massive case starring another young woman was even more fierce. Grace famously didn't hold back when it came to her opinions on the trial of Casey Anthony, who was acquitted of murdering her young daughter, Caylee. Said Grace at the time: "The devil is dancing tonight."

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20534097,00.html

 

[Madeleine74]

Statements, without scientific evidence to corroborate, when there is ample physical evidence, are useless. The physical evidence shows no unimpeached link between the defendents (AK / RS) and the crime scene. It does, however, show a definitive link between Rudy Guede, the crime scene, and the victim (along with the bathroom).

The scientific evidence can be examined. The verbal statements are nothing but hearsay since there is no recording. The written statement is not a confession or admission of any culpability.

Without the physical evidence link, there is nada.

ETA: And Nancy Grace is a histrionic ninny trying desperately to keep the ratings up. Controversy sells. Simple truth is much more mundane. She can "believe" all she wants, but there is no evidence to back up her "beliefs."

 

[otto]

Statements, without scientific evidence to corroborate, when there is ample physical evidence, are useless. The physical evidence shows no unimpeached link between the defendents (AK / RS) and the crime scene. It does, however, show a definitive link between Rudy Guede, the crime scene, and the victim (along with the bathroom).

The scientific evidence can be examined. The verbal statements are nothing but hearsay since there is no recording. The written statement is not a confession or admission of any culpability.

Without the physical evidence link, there is nada.

ETA: And Nancy Grace is a histrionic ninny trying desperately to keep the ratings up. Controversy sells. Simple truth is much more mundane. She can "believe" all she wants, but there is no evidence to back up her "beliefs."

If you compare it to the Brad Cooper trial, there was no physical or forensic DNA evidence connecting Brad, who lived in the house with the victim, to the murder. There was no evidence on the victim connecting her to her husband. There was no film clip of the murder, there was contradictory information regarding the time of death, there were investigative blunders like wiping the victim's cell phone and there was lots of "let's imagine" regarding rigged phone calls. Still, he was found guilty. There is ample circumstantial evidence connecting Knox to the murder of Meredith and if she had been tried in the same court as Brad Cooper, she would be on death row.

With Knox, there is mixed DNA, luminol revealed foot prints, lies implicating an innocent man, no alibi, staged break-in, very questionable behavior after the murder, very crass statements after the murder, a guilty verdict, four years in jail and an appeal that overturned the verdict because there was some question about "beyond a reasonable doubt". The appeal was based on a technicality of questioning whether contamination could have occurred during DNA analysis - a defense tactic that is used every day, but which usually is given no credit.

 

[SMK]

Nancy Grace weighs in, finally:

"Nancy Grace, HLN host and ... told Access Hollywood that she was &#8220;very disturbed, because I think it is a huge miscarriage of justice,&#8221; when asked about the release of Amanda Knox.

Grace said, &#8220;I believe that while Amanda Knox did not wield the knife herself, I think that she was there, with her boyfriend, and that he did the deed, and that she egged him on. That&#8217;s what I think happened.

...

[People] want to believe [that Amanda Knox is innocent] and I don&#8217;t blame them,&#8221; she explained. &#8220;I&#8217;d like to believe it too, I just happen to know the facts.&#8221;

http://www.thirdage.com/news/nancy-...x-release-a-miscarriage-of-justice_10-07-2011


"If Grace's crisp verdict on the matter sounds familiar, that's because her reaction to another massive case starring another young woman was even more fierce. Grace famously didn't hold back when it came to her opinions on the trial of Casey Anthony, who was acquitted of murdering her young daughter, Caylee. Said Grace at the time: "The devil is dancing tonight."

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20534097,00.html

So Nancy Grace is more in command of the facts than Judge Hellman?:waitasec:

 

[otto]

Spotlight on Sollecito's ever changing story about the night of the murder:

http://willsavive.blogspot.com/2011/10/spotlight-on-raffaele-sollecitos.html

 

[otto]

So Nancy Grace is more in command of the facts that Judge Hellman?:waitasec:

Is she? I certainly wouldn't jump to that conclusion. NG certainly has weighed in drawing direct parallels between Casey Anthony, who many believe got away with murder, and Knox, who also appears to have gotten away with murder. Did both courts get the verdicts wrong? Both right?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

I'm a little surprised that there is so much confusion regarding the difference between a "phase" and a "sentence". I was pointing out the most significant phrase in the voluntary statement provided by Knox where she implicated herself in the murder. That phrase referenced two previous statements that were not admissable in court, but which gave more detailed information about Knox's participation in the murder. In her original statements, she included that fact that she heard Meredith scream, a scream that was so horrible she put her fingers in her ears to block the sound. That scream was heard by a neighbour.

The fact that Knox, during trial testimony, tried to white wash her statements by claiming that she was having confused imaginings and difficulty distinguishing between dream and reality does not, in my opinion, elliminate the significance of the phrase claiming that she stands behind her remarks regarding Patrick.

otto,

"but I want to make very clear that these events seem more unreal to me that what I said before, that I stayed at Raffaele's house."

In the passage I quoted, the portion beginning with the word "but" begins the second clause (and I chose the word clause over the word phrase to make that clearer). This passage was part of what she wrote on 6 November. I am bewildered why you are bringing her trial testimony into it; that was not part of my argument.

 

[MrsWendy]

If you compare it to the Brad Cooper trial, there was no physical or forensic DNA evidence connecting Brad, who lived in the house with the victim, to the murder. There was no evidence on the victim connecting her to her husband. There was no film clip of the murder, there was contradictory information regarding the time of death, there were investigative blunders like wiping the victim's cell phone and there was lots of "let's imagine" regarding rigged phone calls. Still, he was found guilty. There is ample circumstantial evidence connecting Knox to the murder of Meredith and if she had been tried in the same court as Brad Cooper, she would be on death row.

With Knox, there is mixed DNA, luminol revealed foot prints, lies implicating an innocent man, no alibi, staged break-in, very questionable behavior after the murder, very crass statements after the murder, a guilty verdict, four years in jail and an appeal that overturned the verdict because there was some question about "beyond a reasonable doubt". The appeal was based on a technicality of questioning whether contamination could have occurred during DNA analysis - a defense tactic that is used every day, but which usually is given no credit.

A comparison between the two cases is not valid. The Cooper case did not have a crime scene containing forensic evidence that pointed to someone other than the Brad Cooper. The crime scene in the Kercher case contained DNA and forensic evidence from the victim and from the person who is currently in jail for her murder. There was no credible forensic evidence pointing to AK or her boyfriend.