Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox Conviction Overturned #22

[SMK]

Is she? I certainly wouldn't jump to that conclusion. NG certainly has weighed in drawing direct parallels between Casey Anthony, who many believe got away with murder, and Knox, who also appears to have gotten away with murder. Did both courts get the verdicts wrong? Both right?

It is clear that Hellman surpasses Grace. No contest there.:great:
I think Anthony jury got confused, and ought to have at least charged with manslaughter of a child. Hellman got it exactly right, all the way, and I expect his motivational report to be highly critical of Massei's logic.

 

[otto]

I think that Dr Sollecito certainly has the right idea about how to help his son. Sollecito is at home; not on some getaway with his family, he was not propped in front of TV cameras immediately after arriving home, he is protected from intrusion by the gated community, his father says that he is having it calm and he is readjusting to life. He is not being treated like some celebrity with offers from *advertiser censored* companies, or entertaining ways to profit from the murder of Meredith Kercher.

RAFFAELE SOLLECITO A BISCEGLIE, ECCO LE DICHIARAZIONI DEL PADRE - YouTube

 

[otto]

otto,

"but I want to make very clear that these events seem more unreal to me that what I said before, that I stayed at Raffaele's house."

In the passage I quoted, the portion beginning with the word "but" begins the second clause (and I chose the word clause over the word phrase to make that clearer). This passage was part of what she wrote on 6 November. I am bewildered why you are bringing her trial testimony into it; that was not part of my argument.

The term "phrase" should not require clarification. We all know about Knox claiming, immediately upon arriving in Seattle, that it did not seem real. That is the exact wording she used when she described the events on the night of the murder ... also "not real". Both events were real. I see no relevance in Knox's claims that the murder of Meredith did not seem real.

I don't know what "argument" you are referring to. Someone posted Knox's voluntary statement asking for clarification regarding of how this connected Knox to the murder.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

With Knox, there is mixed DNA, luminol revealed foot prints, lies implicating an innocent man, no alibi, staged break-in, very questionable behavior after the murder, very crass statements after the murder, a guilty verdict, four years in jail and an appeal that overturned the verdict because there was some question about "beyond a reasonable doubt". The appeal was based on a technicality of questioning whether contamination could have occurred during DNA analysis - a defense tactic that is used every day, but which usually is given no credit.

otto,

Mixed DNA is common in DNA forensics, and it does not signify mixed blood. Luminol is a presumptive test for blood, not a confirmatory test, Amanda and Raffaele are each other's alibis, and there is undisputed computer usage at 9:08, about the time Meredith was attacked. Do you think that DNA contamination (not tampering) never happens? Try telling Gregory Turner, Profile N in New Zealand, or Ms. P and Farah Jama in Australia that and see what they tell you. In this case the number of contributors to the DNA on the bra clasp is too large to be accounted for by primary transfer, IMO. Thus we are left with either secondary transfer or contamination as more reasonable possibilities. Even if the other profiles were not there, the collection techniques were so poor as to raise the serious possibility of contamination on their own.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

The term "phrase" should not require clarification. We all know about Knox claiming, immediately upon arriving in Seattle, that it did not seem real. That is the exact wording she used when she described the events on the night of the murder ... also "not real". Both events were real. I see no relevance in Knox's claims that the murder of Meredith did not seem real.

otto,

Now you have lost me. Knox described Patrick at the girls' flat. Surely we are all agree that this never happened.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

I think that Dr Sollecito certainly has the right idea about how to help his son. Sollecito is at home; not on some getaway with his family, he was not propped in front of TV cameras immediately after arriving home, he is protected from intrusion by the gated community, his father says that he is having it calm and he is readjusting to life. He is not being treated like some celebrity with offers from *advertiser censored* companies, or entertaining ways to profit from the murder of Meredith Kercher.

RAFFAELE SOLLECITO A BISCEGLIE, ECCO LE DICHIARAZIONI DEL PADRE - YouTube

otto,

The last I heard, Amanda wanted to go to a park and feel the grass under her feet.

 

[otto]

A comparison between the two cases is not valid. The Cooper case did not have a crime scene containing forensic evidence that pointed to someone other than the Brad Cooper. The crime scene in the Kercher case contained DNA and forensic evidence from the victim and from the person who is currently in jail for her murder. There was no credible forensic evidence pointing to AK or her boyfriend.

Brad most likely murdered his wife in her home, same as Meredith Kercher's murder. There was no blood in Nancy's home, no forensic evidence indicating that there had been a murder. In Meredith's home, there were bloody footprints and DNA connecting all three suspects to the murder.

Regarding credible evidence, it has been discussed for the last four years. To step in after fours years and make a blanket statement that there was no evidence surprises me. The debates on this forum have covered all of the evidence against Knox and Sollecito. IMO, there is ample evidence, but each piece of evidence has been argued in isolation to attempt to discredit it.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Spotlight on Sollecito's ever changing story about the night of the murder:

http://willsavive.blogspot.com/2011/10/spotlight-on-raffaele-sollecitos.html

Will Savive quotes a discredited old newspaper article, but he fails to mention that Raffaele backed up Amanda's alibi in front of Judge Matteini. He has never said anything other than that since.

 

[otto]

It is clear that Hellman surpasses Grace. No contest there.:great:
I think Anthony jury got confused, and ought to have at least charged with manslaughter of a child. Hellman got it exactly right, all the way, and I expect his motivational report to be highly critical of Massei's logic.

Selectively choosing which jury and which court got it right is certainly one way to decide if justice was done. The Anthony jury got it wrong, the OJ jury got it wrong, the Knox jury got it wrong and then they got it right ... and so it goes. Personally, I don't view the judge as getting things right or wrong, I see it as the court getting it right or wrong. Many people on both sides of the pond are outraged that the verdict was overturned on appeal and, given the controversy, Knox should be as careful as Anthony and OJ regarding how much she wants to put herself in the spotlight. The *advertiser censored* company offer should be enough for Knox to realize that celebrity status may not be an easy ride - even if the money seems appealing.

 

[SMK]

John Kercher:

Sometimes he likes to think she is still alive, studying abroad, enjoying her life.

‘I still find it difficult to believe she’s gone. I still think she’s out there in Italy,’ he says. ‘It’s not denial, it’s just a nice feeling to think she’s still there and that I just haven’t spoken to her for a while.’ [...]
‘There is still no explanation as to how or why Meredith died because no one has confessed,’ says John. ‘There were more than 40 wounds on her body. The intimation was that she was held down. Why? It’s not like it was a random attack in the street.
‘That’s the part I just can’t understand. Everybody who knew Meredith adored her. She was the most loving, caring person. She was always prepared to help people. She would never turn a deaf ear to anyone who needed her help or advice.
‘One of her teachers told me that she never, ever saw Meredith fall out with anybody. So who could do that to her? There is no reason. What was the purpose of it?
‘If it had been just one person, Meredith would have fought back, but there were no defensive injuries on her body. She may have looked slight, but she was a very strong, tough person. She was on her third belt in karate. She could look after herself.’
‘I grieve all the time for Meredith. I am still in a state of devastation. We don’t know exactly what happened to her because no one has admitted to killing her. There is no point in talking about forgiveness. Even if I did know who did this to Meredith, I don’t think I could ever forgive it." http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ys-wrong-capitalise-murder.html#ixzz1a8b0aTB8

 

[otto]

otto,

The last I heard, Amanda wanted to go to a park and feel the grass under her feet.

"He said it was the best day of his life to have his daughter back on US soil. He also confirmed that she had not yet signed a big money interview deal, and no counselling has been lined up. "She's a strong person," he said.

Mr Knox added: "You won't find her."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...Perugia-after-Meredith-Kercher-acquittal.html

He said his daughter was staying indoors to keep her location secret. He said: “At this stage of the game it’s a different version of jail.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ok-and-TV-deal-money-to-Meredith-Kercher.html

 

[Malkmus]

I think that Dr Sollecito certainly has the right idea about how to help his son. Sollecito is at home; not on some getaway with his family, he was not propped in front of TV cameras immediately after arriving home, he is protected from intrusion by the gated community, his father says that he is having it calm and he is readjusting to life. He is not being treated like some celebrity with offers from *advertiser censored* companies, or entertaining ways to profit from the murder of Meredith Kercher.

RAFFAELE SOLLECITO A BISCEGLIE, ECCO LE DICHIARAZIONI DEL PADRE - YouTube

<modsnip> unless Amanda was the one who called a *advertiser censored* company for work I don't see the reason for repeatedly holding this against her.

 

[SMK]

otto,

The last I heard, Amanda wanted to go to a park and feel the grass under her feet.

Curt Knox said in an interview that she did go lay down in the grass; it just was not in their backyard, he said.:waitasec:

 

[Malkmus]

"He said it was the best day of his life to have his daughter back on US soil. He also confirmed that she had not yet signed a big money interview deal, and no counselling has been lined up. "She's a strong person," he said.

Mr Knox added: "You won't find her."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...Perugia-after-Meredith-Kercher-acquittal.html

He said his daughter was staying indoors to keep her location secret. He said: “At this stage of the game it’s a different version of jail.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ok-and-TV-deal-money-to-Meredith-Kercher.html

Sounds like she's trying to keep a low profile.

 

[Malkmus]

Brad most likely murdered his wife in her home, same as Meredith Kercher's murder. There was no blood in Nancy's home, no forensic evidence indicating that there had been a murder. In Meredith's home, there were bloody footprints and DNA connecting all three suspects to the murder.

Regarding credible evidence, it has been discussed for the last four years. To step in after fours years and make a blanket statement that there was no evidence surprises me. The debates on this forum have covered all of the evidence against Knox and Sollecito. IMO, there is ample evidence, but each piece of evidence has been argued in isolation to attempt to discredit it.

Criticism of the forensics in this case did not just appear after 4 years, and had Massei allowed independent review of it as was requested, the court would have verified the defense's claims years ago.

 

[Madeleine74]

If you compare it to the Brad Cooper trial, there was no physical or forensic DNA evidence connecting Brad, who lived in the house with the victim, to the murder. There was no evidence on the victim connecting her to her husband. There was no film clip of the murder, there was contradictory information regarding the time of death, there were investigative blunders like wiping the victim's cell phone and there was lots of "let's imagine" regarding rigged phone calls. Still, he was found guilty. There is ample circumstantial evidence connecting Knox to the murder of Meredith and if she had been tried in the same court as Brad Cooper, she would be on death row.

With Knox, there is mixed DNA, luminol revealed foot prints, lies implicating an innocent man, no alibi, staged break-in, very questionable behavior after the murder, very crass statements after the murder, a guilty verdict, four years in jail and an appeal that overturned the verdict because there was some question about "beyond a reasonable doubt". The appeal was based on a technicality of questioning whether contamination could have occurred during DNA analysis - a defense tactic that is used every day, but which usually is given no credit.

LOL I knew you were going to bring up the BC case. In the BC case there was no physical evidence to tie anyone to the crime, but there was other evidence--namely digital/computer evidence that tied him to the dump site along with his recorded lies (video tape) and access and possession of equipment that blew his alibi. Also there was a clear motive. Apples & Oranges.

In the Kercher case you have a very bloody crime scene in a contained area (the BR). You have zero evidence tying AK or RS to that room. You have zero motive. AK and MK only knew each other for 6 weeks. AK and RS knew each other for 1 week. RG's DNA was found all over the apt and inside the victim. He admitted he was there, but we already knew that because of his DNA. You have verbal statements not recorded. You have language differences. And, you have a scientific panel who found the crime scene processing and testing problematic to the point where the only 2 items allegedly tied to these defendants were thrown out.

<modsnip>.

 

[otto]

Otto, unless Amanda was the one who called a *advertiser censored* company for work I don't see the reason for repeatedly holding this against her.

Similar to Casey Anthony, as soon as an unexpected verdict was delivered the *advertiser censored* companies stepped forward trying to cash in on the celebrity headline of female murderer that avoided prison. I don't think anyone is holding Knox or Anthony responsible for the *advertiser censored* offers.

 

[otto]

Curt Knox said in an interview that she did go lay down in the grass; it just was not in their backyard, he said.:waitasec:

That's my point. In court, Knox said that she just wanted to go home. Dr Sollecito has recognized the importance of taking his son home to familiar surroundings and experiences. The Knox family first propped Knox in front of the media and then whisked her off to their "secet" location. I think that Sollecito will recover better and faster under the care of Dr Sollecito, who is providing a familiar home environment to his son rather than keeping him away from home.

 

[otto]

LOL I knew you were going to bring up the BC case. In the BC case there was no physical evidence to tie anyone to the crime, but there was other evidence--namely digital/computer evidence that tied him to the dump site along with his recorded lies (video tape) and access and possession of equipment that blew his alibi. Also there was a clear motive. Apples & Oranges.

In the Kercher case you have a very bloody crime scene in a contained area (the BR). You have zero evidence tying AK or RS to that room. You have zero motive. AK and MK only knew each other for 6 weeks. AK and RS knew each other for 1 week. RG's DNA was found all over the apt and inside the victim. He admitted he was there, but we already knew that because of his DNA. You have verbal statements not recorded. You have language differences. And, you have a scientific panel who found the crime scene processing and testing problematic to the point where the only 2 items allegedly tied to these defendants were thrown out.

<modsnip>.

I'd like to see how the Marriott PR machine could manipulate the verdict in the Michelle Young murder. I doubt it would take much to convince the public and the media that he is being framed by the police.

 

[SMK]

I was going to say with the John Kercher piece, although I have complete and total sympathy for his loss, it does not make sense to me that he cannot imagine who Meredith could have fallen out with. To me, the idea of a burglar wanting to leave no witness makes more sense than a falling out. He mentions 40 wounds still; I thought this had been reduced to 21 or 23?

I also feel being trained in martial arts would not preclude being passive if a burglar held a knife to one's throat, and was taller and stronger than she. I do sympathize with his loss: I know first hand that grief is not a wound that can ever fully heal. Nor is it a problem with a fix.