Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox Conviction Overturned #22

[SMK]

@Sherlock:

See "Angel Face: The True Story of Student Killer Amanda Knox" by Barbie L Nadeau; copyright 2010, Beast Books:

p. 158, first paragraph:

". . . Mignini and Comodi clashed over whether to include the sexual violence against Meredith. Mignini also wanted to reintroduce the theory of a Satanic ritual. Comodi blocked both impulses."

 

[emyr]

If you keep insisting the bedroom must have been cleaned then that is up to you. I don't agree. The bathroom was visibly cleaned as their should have been more blood on the floor if you look at the bathmat. The door and sink were visibly cleaned as the traces of blood found seemed to have been part of a larger trace. Especially the trace on the side of the door is rather telling.

I did not even criticize the C&V report. I pointed out that the experts did not agree. Experts for the prosecution are neutral as well. There were several experts arguing on very specific technical details of the investigation. How are the judges supposed to choose sides on that? This is the only reason why I understand and can accept the courts decision.

You got a fair response from me, but apparently you don't appreciate it and throw name calling like "guilters" at me so I am going to shut up now

That's interesting, I never thought of the bathroom as beiing cleaned. Do you have a picture of some of these areas that suggest that so I can form an opinion as well? The tap didn't seem cleaned to me and that's the only original picture I've seen.

 

[sherlockh]

Check court transcripts from Oct. 18, 2008. Check also Nadeau, Kercher, Follain, Micheli, et al. Mignini did indeed describe Raffaele's vampire material as "satanic". He did make highly suggestive remarks about rituals and Halloween. And you know the defense attorney would have been sued for defamation if he misspoke about Mignini. :innocent:

Why in the world would a defense lawyer be sued for using hyperbole like the word 'satanic'? You still have no proof of anything but are now changing the topic to rituals and manga comics which is a lot closer to the truth. Mignini never said the murder was inspired by Satan or that it was a 'satanic ritual' or that there was any sect. Nowhere in the Micheli report the word satan is even mentioned as was claimed earlier. So we are left with a whole bunch of false claims about Mignini. The truth is that Mignini claimed a ritualistic element inspired by Halloween and RS's manga comics. This then is overloaded with hyperbole such as 'satanic' and 'satanism' which he never said.

Now lets go back to the point of this discussion in the first place. The point of ridiculing the prosecutor was to make it look like the 2 should have never been prosecuted. I don't agree with that and think that any other prosecutor would have done the same job (and maybe even better) as Mignini. What is easily forgotten is that Mignini was not the only prosecutor and it was Comodi who had a leading role in the appeal. Then judge Hellmann made it clear that there was enough evidence to prosecute them and he would have done the same thing had he been a prosecutor.

 

[Madeleine74]

Seems like when they refer to someone as an "Angel" face there must be a reason that infers the opposite. Inferred would then be "Devil" behavior.

There is no way, no how I can trust anything Mignini does or says. He lost whatever credibility he started with. Now he is the convicted Mignini. Monster of Florence, indeed!

 

[sherlockh]

@Sherlock:

See "Angel Face: The True Story of Student Killer Amanda Knox" by Barbie L Nadeau; copyright 2010, Beast Books:

p. 158, first paragraph:

". . . Mignini and Comodi clashed over whether to include the sexual violence against Meredith. Mignini also wanted to reintroduce the theory of a Satanic ritual. Comodi blocked both impulses."

Reporters love to use these kind of hyperbole in their stories. I think I have explained enough by now and shown exactly where this hyperbole came from. It is not in the Micheli report because Mignini never said it. It is as simple as that.

 

[SkewedView]

Why in the world would a defense lawyer be sued for using hyperbole like the word 'satanic'? You still have no proof of anything but are now changing the topic to rituals and manga comics which is a lot closer to the truth. Mignini never said the murder was inspired by Satan or that it was a 'satanic ritual' or that there was any sect. Nowhere in the Micheli report the word satan is even mentioned as was claimed earlier. So we are left with a whole bunch of false claims about Mignini. The truth is that Mignini claimed a ritualistic element inspired by Halloween and RS's manga comics. This then is overloaded with hyperbole such as 'satanic' and 'satanism' which he never said.

Now lets go back to the point of this discussion in the first place. The point of ridiculing the prosecutor was to make it look like the 2 should have never been prosecuted. I don't agree with that and think that any other prosecutor would have done the same job (and maybe even better) as Mignini. What is easily forgotten is that Mignini was not the only prosecutor and it was Comodi who had a leading role in the appeal. Then judge Hellmann made it clear that there was enough evidence to prosecute them and he would have done the same thing had he been a prosecutor.

Just a small point here: Especially given that there was no sign of any ritual elements to the crime scene (being an utterly classic chaotic one), the idea of a comic book inspired ritual killing is just as ridiculous as a Satan inspired one, actually even more so, IMO. Trying to pass off such thinking as reasonable weakens the rest of your fairly solid argument.

 

[sherlockh]

That's interesting, I never thought of the bathroom as beiing cleaned. Do you have a picture of some of these areas that suggest that so I can form an opinion as well? The tap didn't seem cleaned to me and that's the only original picture I've seen.

Excuse me for being lazy There are plenty of pictures available on the internet of the bathroom and the trace on the side of the door. The bathmat is stained with blood spots but the floor is clean. There is also only half a footprint on there. Where is the other half? The traces on the door and the sink are described as to have been part of a larger trace. This was described in the Massei report. Especially the trace on the side of the door is telling as it seems logical that this trace was forgotten during cleaning if you close the door.

 

[sherlockh]

Just a small point here: Especially given that there was no sign of any ritual elements to the crime scene (being an utterly classic chaotic one), the idea of a comic book inspired ritual killing is just as ridiculous as a Satan inspired one, actually even more so, IMO. Trying to pass off such thinking as reasonable weakens the rest of your fairly solid argument.

I don't know if that is reasonable or not. That is a whole different discussion.

 

[ks1]

My biggest problem with this case and even considering AK and RS as accomplices is trying to reconcile Rudy's implication of Amanda and Raffaelle as being the murderers with the fact that if they were there as he suggested, Meredith invited him in and they had consensual sex. How do you accept part of his testimony as the truth, and reject the other as false? How do you reject his phone call to his friend stating that Amanda was not there, yet accept his statement to save himself as true? Why do some think that there had to be more than one killer? BTK killed an entire family by himself.

 

[sherlockh]

My biggest problem with this case and even considering AK and RS as accomplices is trying to reconcile Rudy's implication of Amanda and Raffaelle as being the murderers with the fact that if they were there as he suggested, Meredith invited him in and they had consensual sex. How do you accept part of his testimony as the truth, and reject the other as false? How do you reject his phone call to his friend stating that Amanda was not there, yet accept his statement to save himself as true? Why do some think that there had to be more than one killer? BTK killed an entire family by himself.

There is many things Rudy claimed in that Skype call. He started with that he wasn't there himself. He does not directly implicate the other 2 but indirectly he does. He said that both AK and RS came back to wash Meredith's bloody clothes. His friends reaction was something like, why in the world would they do that if they weren't involved themselves?

We all know that Rudy is lying but he did eventually accuse both AK and RS directly. Providing false testimony in a trial would only get him in trouble. So why did he do this after his own appeals were exhausted? According to media reports he had a strong reaction after the acquittal of both AK and RS. Why would he if he knew they were innocent?

 

[sherlockh]

It's just a super grainy picture that wasn't put into evidence because no one can figure out who it is.

*Snipped*. Just based on these grainy images there is no way to tell who that is. Although I doubt that it is Meredith wearing jeans and a blue sweatshirt. However, if you take into account the stories of both AK and RS then you can get an idea who that was. RS saying that AK went out at about 9pm. AK's 'confession' that she went to the cottage and bumped into Patrick at about 9pm. And here we have some grainy images of a person arriving at the cottage at about 9pm who seems to be female wearing light clothing IMO.

However these statements could not be used in the trial so they were left with just the CCTV images that by themselves do not prove anything, so these were rejected as evidence as well. IMO they both got very lucky with the rejection of evidence and witnesses.

 

[Sonata]

According to media reports he had a strong reaction after the acquittal of both AK and RS. Why would he if he knew they were innocent?

Because it was legal evidence that he lied on the stand? Because it has implications for his sentence potentially?

 

[sherlockh]

Because it was legal evidence that he lied on the stand? Because it has implications for his sentence potentially?

Oh ok, so he lied on the stand testifying against 2 innocent people while his own appeals are exhausted. Why would he even do that? And then when they are acquitted, he seems upset and says 'why am I the only one left in jail?', but actually he is acting and means 'I am really scared now since I lied on the stand for fun'? Something like that?

http://www.umbria24.it/rudy-amanda-knox/62085.html
Google translate

Rudy Guede hours screaming with rage: "Why Amanda and Raffaele are out and just me in jail?"

"I want to know, know why I was the only one to pay. I would cry out to my lawyers at all, the whole world. They were found innocent and I'm here."

 

[Sonata]

Oh ok, so he lied on the stand testifying against 2 innocent people while his own appeals are exhausted. Why would he even do that? And then when they are acquitted, he seems upset and says 'why am I the only one left in jail?', but actually he is acting and means 'I am really scared now since I lied on the stand for fun'? Something like that?

http://www.umbria24.it/rudy-amanda-knox/62085.html
Google translate

Because, his story was that he didn't do it. It was easier for him to stick to that story and their appeal was a chance for him to do that. He isn't going to confess. It is convenient for him that someone else is convicted because it supports his story.

If he really had nothing to worry about in terms of his sentence, then why wouldn't he just confess? He either cares about it, or he doesn't, but he still feels the need to pass blame on someone else (hence his support of convictions being upheld). The only other scenario would be that he really is innocent. Seems unlikely to me.

 

[SMK]

Oh ok, so he lied on the stand testifying against 2 innocent people while his own appeals are exhausted. Why would he even do that? And then when they are acquitted, he seems upset and says 'why am I the only one left in jail?', but actually he is acting and means 'I am really scared now since I lied on the stand for fun'? Something like that?

http://www.umbria24.it/rudy-amanda-knox/62085.html
Google translate

I think it is obvious that when AK and RS were acquitted, Guede saw his chance to exit, too. I would have. He supposedly did the crime with 2 people, they go free, he is thinking, me, next. Nice try, Rudy. It is the oldest trick in the world, by the way: "I had consensual sex with her, then I left the room, and someone else killed her!"

 

[SMK]

Reporters love to use these kind of hyperbole in their stories. I think I have explained enough by now and shown exactly where this hyperbole came from. It is not in the Micheli report because Mignini never said it. It is as simple as that.

Wow. Really weak response. Nadeau is supposed to be a professional journalist. Professional journalists fact-check. They don't lie. She is making the claim that Comodi had to prevent Mignini from reintroducing the idea of a Satanic ritual.

 

[RoseMontague]

Wow. Really weak response. Nadeau is supposed to be a professional journalist. Professional journalists fact-check. They don't lie. She is making the claim that Comodi had to prevent Mignini from reintroducing the idea of a Satanic ritual.

I believe Mignini's delusions are more Masonic in nature than satanic. Here is an interesting article that quotes Mignini's closing remarks in Guede's trial and something about the Order of the Red Rose.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/masonic-theory-that-put-knox-in-the-dock-981759.html

 

[RoseMontague]

Nina Burleigh has a lot of information in her book on the Masonic theory and Mignini. Here is just one quote:

There are twenty-four Masonic lodges in Perugia, making it Italy’s per capita center of Masonic activity. Perugians believe that members of those lodges secretly control most aspects of banking, business, and administration in their community—and that members get preference in promotions, loans, and jobs. Mignini was not alone in his distrust of and suspicion about the Masons, although he took his suspicions to an obsessive level. Italians associate the Masons with both government conspiracy and occult ritual.

 

[SMK]

I believe Mignini's delusions are more Masonic in nature than satanic. Here is an interesting article that quotes Mignini's closing remarks in Guede's trial and something about the Order of the Red Rose.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/masonic-theory-that-put-knox-in-the-dock-981759.html

Wow, thanks for that. And for pointing out Burleigh's section on his and Italian suspicion of Masonic sects. I know the Portugese had pointed out similar in the McCann case.

 

[RoseMontague]

Excuse me for being lazy There are plenty of pictures available on the internet of the bathroom and the trace on the side of the door. The bathmat is stained with blood spots but the floor is clean. There is also only half a footprint on there. Where is the other half? The traces on the door and the sink are described as to have been part of a larger trace. This was described in the Massei report. Especially the trace on the side of the door is telling as it seems logical that this trace was forgotten during cleaning if you close the door.

The trace on the side of the door is interesting. It looks to me to have been possibly been made by someone brushing the side of the door as they entered the bathroom or possibly something they were carrying (like a bloody towel). Any theories on this?

The sample from the light switch seems a bit more obvious but it appears a more obvious sample at the outher edge of the circle in this picture.