Mexico Mexico - Jennifer Seitz, 36, Cruise ship passenger near Cancun, Dec 2008

[Elphaba]

And WELL Im sorry I KNOW you shouldnt judge a book by its cover but after seeing that photo of Ray

Um sorry Im MORE Convinced than EVER that he did it

You dont think he was in cahoots or anything with his MIL do you

I've been itching to ask that, but worried that it would be too controversial of a speculation point. Does anyone know if it was her mother that released the "family" statement? (I find it odd that a family would quickly write off the disappearance as a suicide... but then again, what may look odd to others, may look logical to someone else.)

 

[cloudajo]

FYI, this page on Orlando Sentinel (News Chief, Winter Haven) says the statement was released by the Ellis and Seitz Families. It sounds like Jennifer's husband and mother both discovered her missing around 2AM (I'm wondering if they arrived back to cabin together) and they both notified ship security about 3:30AM after the husband searched the ship for her.

==========
The Ellis and Seitz families later released the following statement:

"Jennifer's husband and mother discovered her missing at around 2 a.m. As it was common for her to walk the ship when she was unable to sleep, her husband began searching the ship for her. He could not locate her and so he and her mother notified ship security that she was missing at approximately 3:30 a.m.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...seitz-family-statement-122908,0,3682856.story

 

[cloudajo]

Fox News Transcript from Dec 29th.

Includes FBI spokesman and passenger interviews.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,473946,00.html

 

[cloudajo]

Florida Today article and video. A neighbor is interviewed in the video and reporter says a relative called the neighbor about what happened saying the couple got into a fight Christmas night.

IMO, it's possible they fought and it's also possible the husband and mother left Jennifer alive in the cabin and went out for the evening, and Jennifer then made a decision to end her life. We don't know if she was taking meds, drinking, etc. Sometimes people are in pain inside and it doesn't necessarily show or they try to pretend they are happy. We don't know if for example, the husband and mother are on video as being somehwere else before 8PM and during the time Jennifer went overboard (plus any room key card activity). I also think it could be foul play with the husband but I'm trying to keep an open mind.

Article: http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008812300305

Video: http://gannett.a.mms.mavenapps.net/...istId=playlist&maven_referralObject=978669803

 

[cloudajo]

Pic of Raymond here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28392898/

Scroll down.

It is a mug shot from his arrest.

Find the original and a little more info here:

http://www.polksheriff.org/inq/Pages/Jail.aspx

Type in his name to find the pic/dob/arrest info.

Thanks for the pic.

 

[Kimberlina]

I wondered about the mother angle myself, and an insurance policy.

One the TCR website posted earlier, there is a woman who says she was on the ship and was paired up with the family in a murder mystery activity on Christmas Eve. She says they were all in good spirits a day before her disappearance. She also says that they were indeed celebrating their anniversary and that they were married on 12/8/07.


I'm still confused about the timeline. I thought the camera showed someone going overboard around 8PM, then she was reported around 3 (presumably when mom and hubby returned to the room, which I would think surveillaince cameras and keycard tracking would be able to verify or disprove.) However, there are several conflicting reports, some saying that it was as long as 11 hours between the time the cameras recorded and the time she was reported missing by her family.

I would think with the surveillaince measures on board, it should be fairly easy to confirm someone's innocence in this situation, if they truly are innocent. If they were not in the room, they had to have been somewhere else, and IIRC, there are lots of security camers on cruise ships in the public areas. If they were in another cabin, it might be tougher, but if that were the case, someone else should be able to verify their (mom's and hubby's) whereabouts. Also, lots of people should have recognized them (hubby and Jennifer) because they participated in the game on board and apparently the recording of it was played over and over on ship, so if he was elsewhere, someone should be able to comfirm that.

I still, in my gut, feel he did it, but I too leave room for the possibility that she may have done it herself. I don't want to say he is a terrible person who did this or that because obviously I don't know him. What I do know is that there were two people who were both divorced and remarried quickly after a life-changing event, and I know from my own personal experiences with self and family that you don't *usually* get that large without underlying emotional issues to begin with. I also know that some people change drastically after weight-loss surgery, and not always for the better. What either of their true emotional states was is anyone's guess.

 

[gaia227]

I don't feel like she committed suicide either. I spent a couple hours reading her on-line diary on obesity help and after reading that it is hard for me to believe she killed herself. Over-all she seems like a positive person who was going through a major, major life-style change which included a lot of pain and struggle and handeling the whole experience pretty gracefully. As a result, she was finally able to do many of the things she had always wanted to do but couldn't or wouldn't because of her weight. Things were changing in her life and she had a lot to look forward too.

Looking at the other option of suicide:
Perhaps Jen and her husband were having issues, there are reports of a fight between them. Her mother was with him instead of her. She had lost 120lbs from the surgery, which is great, but from what I have read I think she is on the low end as far as weight-loss from surgery. She was down to 160lbs which is a big change but if we are being honest most women in their 30's of average height would consider 160lbs too heavy. She had to maintain a strict diet because of the surgery and if she didn't she would get sick because of too much sugar, too many carbs, etc - maybe she was really sick of having to live on such a strict regiment. She could not deal with the possibility of another short-lived, failed marriage. She felt like her mother was siding with her husband instead of her - feelings of lonliness, isolation and couple that with 'emotional issues' which I am speculating means depression could be a recipe for disaster.

Third option could be a tragic accident.

That being said - I am still leaning towards the husband killing her, moving the chair infront of the railing to make it look like she jumped. I am confused about the mother. Why were Jen's husband and mother hanging out together for hours without Jen? That seems a little strange to me....

 

[gooniequeen]

slightly off topic, but I fell I'm an expert on some of the observations some of you have made.

I too am a member of OH and had gastric bypass surgery (which is the surgery Jen had, not Lap Band as some of the news media is reporting) My goal weight is 159lbs which for my height 5'7" is considered "normal" weight.

I do not think that Jen weighing 160lbs would be a reason to be depressed at all. Actually in looking at her OH profile she has her weight at 157 and her BMI at 25. (normal weight BMI is 18.5-24.9) so she was perhaps 1lb overweight. She had also had extensive plastic surgery so a lot of her excess skin (which does cause depression sometimes to people after WLS) was already dealt with.

All of her posts seem like she was a VERY upbeat person. However I am reading on the OH boards that there is talk she was perhaps Bi-polar.

 

[gooniequeen]

Another snippet here- just a comment he posted about his wife Jennifer on the weight loss reunion page:

http://www.obesityhelp.com/forums/1...s/board_id,5257/cat_id,4857/topic_id,3337010/

Also, there is reference on his surgery support page (a couple references, actually) to a wife he had during the surgery in 2002, which was obviously someone besides Jennifer. ETA that his ex's name is mentioned on his blog. Not sure it makes any sense to name her as she obviously had nothing to do with any of this. (The only reason I mentioned JS's ex is because the wedding page I linked to had lots of info about her and his name was on it, along with his pic.)

The post you are referring to was written in 1/08 and Ray was married to Jen. you are looking to the left at his surgery date which was 2/02. His ex- wifes name is Wendy btw.

 

[gooniequeen]

:clap: Thank you! I have been wondering this all along. It's not like they're anti-theft cameras. I know that many sites have a streaming live video so you can see your friends on a cruise if you're home and you log on to one of the stream sites. Was this the purpose of the camera?

According to an interview with the ships security director (aired on the Today show this morning) there are 1100 cameras on this ship and all activity is recorded and archived. Obviously they cannot monitor 1100 images simultanously. My guess is everything is recorded so they can be reviewed later if need be. (as in this case)

 

[arielilane]

I think the many red flags we have heard about points directly at the husband. There are no coincidences.

It will be interesting once the video findings are released. What about pings from cell phones? It has been years since I have been on a cruise ship.

 

[cloudajo]

New info and pics of Jennifer and Ray and her blog entries from her myspace. Go to link below for details.

==============
[snipped]

As a gastric bypass patient, alcohol tended to hit Jennifer hard and fast, and she and Ray had argued about her drinking earlier on the day she went missing. When he asked her to slow down a bit, she offhandedly threatened to jump off the ship. According to sources, Jennifer and her mother also had words that evening on the same subject.​

On the evening of December 25, Jennifer and her mother Donna met another passenger aboard the ship that they referred to as “the engineer.” The man came back to their cabin where he ordered up two bottles of Dom Perignon. According to sources, the man “drank himself sick” and vomited in their shower before going back to his own cabin alone.​

It is believed that Donna had left the cabin at this point, and Raymond was beckoning Jennifer to stop drinking and come to bed. She refused and continued to drink - rambling, which sources say she did at times. When Jennifer exhibited this behavior on previous occasions, her family instructed Ray to “tune her out,” telling him “it will pass.”​

Raymond went to sleep. When he awoke around 1:00 a.m. Jennifer was not in the cabin. He walked the ship looking for her, and when he couldn’t find her he went back to the cabin and woke Donna around 2:00 a.m. to ask her if she knew where Jennifer was. She, like Raymond, believed Jennifer was probably walking the decks, and when the two of them couldn’t find her, they notified the cruise line.

According to sources, Jennifer had threatened and/or attempted suicide in the past, and one family member reported that in recent years Jennifer “began hearing evil voices in her head.” After numerous attempts by the family to help, the best they could do was “tune her out.”​

Surveillance video from the cruise ship shows a woman going overboard around 8:00 p.m. on Christmas night, and the FBI is investigating whether or not a crime was committed that evening.​

http://www.bittenandbound.com/2008/...sive-what-happened-the-night-she-disappeared/

 

[mae]

Is there any mention of the time line of when the man came to the room and drank himself sick? Or when Raymond went to sleep? According to the above, these events would have had to happen before 8 pm since Raymond saw at this time. 8 pm is an awful early bedtime, especially on a cruise ship.

 

[JaneInOz]

New info and pics of Jennifer and Ray and her blog entries from her myspace. Go to link below for details.

==============
[snipped]

As a gastric bypass patient, alcohol tended to hit Jennifer hard and fast, and she and Ray had argued about her drinking earlier on the day she went missing. When he asked her to slow down a bit, she offhandedly threatened to jump off the ship. According to sources, Jennifer and her mother also had words that evening on the same subject.​

On the evening of December 25, Jennifer and her mother Donna met another passenger aboard the ship that they referred to as “the engineer.” The man came back to their cabin where he ordered up two bottles of Dom Perignon. According to sources, the man “drank himself sick” and vomited in their shower before going back to his own cabin alone.​

It is believed that Donna had left the cabin at this point, and Raymond was beckoning Jennifer to stop drinking and come to bed. She refused and continued to drink - rambling, which sources say she did at times. When Jennifer exhibited this behavior on previous occasions, her family instructed Ray to “tune her out,” telling him “it will pass.”​

Raymond went to sleep. When he awoke around 1:00 a.m. Jennifer was not in the cabin. He walked the ship looking for her, and when he couldn’t find her he went back to the cabin and woke Donna around 2:00 a.m. to ask her if she knew where Jennifer was. She, like Raymond, believed Jennifer was probably walking the decks, and when the two of them couldn’t find her, they notified the cruise line.

According to sources, Jennifer had threatened and/or attempted suicide in the past, and one family member reported that in recent years Jennifer “began hearing evil voices in her head.” After numerous attempts by the family to help, the best they could do was “tune her out.”​

Surveillance video from the cruise ship shows a woman going overboard around 8:00 p.m. on Christmas night, and the FBI is investigating whether or not a crime was committed that evening.​

http://www.bittenandbound.com/2008/...sive-what-happened-the-night-she-disappeared/

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh



Hmmm.....After reading that article and relating to the highs and lows (mine are from adoption issues) fueled with Alcohol ... I can see her drunk standing on the chair saying I'm going to do this and leaning forward (not really wanting to do it) and losing her balance and going over....

Alcohol takes all the normal usual rational logical thoughts and turns them into to emotional demons that can make you do things you wouldnt sober

I can only drink so much and only certain drinks or I become a demon !

Reading this article makes me think that the above scenario is most likley

Not suicide but emotional and alcohol charged tragic accident

 

[JaneInOz]

Is there any mention of the time line of when the man came to the room and drank himself sick? Or when Raymond went to sleep? According to the above, these events would have had to happen before 8 pm since Raymond saw at this time. 8 pm is an awful early bedtime, especially on a cruise ship.

But then again yes ! that is a good point

Seems odd ? unless he as he said was trying to coax her to bed and then he fell asleep.

IF you have had a busy day having a quick nap and then getting up later is also done on cruises

 

[cloudajo]

But then again yes ! that is a good point

Seems odd ? unless he as he said was trying to coax her to bed and then he fell asleep.

IF you have had a busy day having a quick nap and then getting up later is also done on cruises

I was wondering the same when I read it. All of that would have happened before 8PM. Wasn't the ship docked in Cozumel that day? We don't know what they did during the day - did they go to the beach, stay on the ship, how much drinking was involved, etc. Sometimes sun and drinking can make people tired too.

 

[scandi]

Hi Gooniequeern,

I do appreciate your posts since with OH you have an involved interest in the case, giving great insight into Jennifer. I also give you kudos for sticking to your goal

Now I am perplexed. LOL If he didn't push her off the railing then maybe he has a personality problem. Anyone whose wife is missing would be terribly concerned if anywhere near normal, right? To go gamble at that point seems so out of cinque with what is appropriate by society's standards.

I'd like to know from what point the camera caught her falling overboard. Was it from an outside rail of the ship? I thought I read in that video no one else was seen on deck where she fell from.

On FOX I have only heard there are suspicions of the hubby because of the domestic violence head but he gave her. But like the TH {ex FBI officer} said, that is a great leap from a head but to murder!

 

[SeriouslySearching]

And WELL Im sorry I KNOW you shouldnt judge a book by its cover but after seeing that photo of Ray

Um sorry Im MORE Convinced than EVER that he did it

You dont think he was in cahoots or anything with his MIL do you

Very possible since it was my first thought...:waitasec:

 

[SeriouslySearching]

If they knew she was that drunk...why can't they at least charge them with neglect or something for not notifying the people in charge that this inhebriated woman was out roaming the decks?! They allowed her to be in this condition and did nothing to protect her safety. On land, it would be considered Public Drunk. Surely they have something in place on cruise ships which would allow them to prevent the accidental or otherwise death of a passenger.

 

[christine2448]

If they knew she was that drunk...why can't they at least charge them with neglect or something for not notifying the people in charge that this inhebriated woman was out roaming the decks?! They allowed her to be in this condition and did nothing to protect her safety. On land, it would be considered Public Drunk. Surely they have something in place on cruise ships which would allow them to prevent the accidental or otherwise death of a passenger.

When saying, 'they' and 'them', who exactly is being referred to? Who should be charged for her being public drunk? TIA.