Mexico Mexico - Jenny Chen, 26, Oaxaca, 11 April 2016 #3

[Lilibet]

JR appears to be truly at his wits' end. I know I'm beating a dead horse, but just exactly what is stopping him working with Jenny's family in China?

China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs released a statement last May saying that Jenny's family visited the Chinese Embassy in Mexico, as well as "the Oaxaca, Chiapas, Tabasco and other state police department, to understand the progress of the search work. After a lot of investigation, the Mexican police to provide encouraging information to prove that in late May Chen still in the southern part of the Mexican car ride.

The next stage, the embassy will be close contact with the Mexican state police, through local radio, television, network and other channels to expand the search for the early to find the whereabouts of Chen. Please urge all Mexican compatriots and Mexican personnel to continue to give valuable support to the work of the embassy, ​​such as the discovery of valuable clues, please immediately notify the embassy (embassy conscription phone: 5520936210)." (via Google Translate)
http://www.guancha.cn/society/2016_06_10_363451.shtml

In just a couple of weeks, Jenny will have been missing for a full year. I'm not sure what type of relationship he has with Jenny's family, but surely, it wouldn't hurt to reach out to them to see if they have gotten any updates from the Chinese Embassy. Perhaps Jenny's family, too, feels that they are being fed a bunch of BS by the authorities, in which case maybe they all can appeal to the US State Department or the US Embassy in Mexico together (I understand that Jenny is not a US citizen, but she had been "granted permanent residency and was working toward becoming a citizen," so this may be an avenue worth pursuing).
http://komonews.com/news/local/seat...oes-missing-during-backpacking-trip-to-mexico

BBM

I agree that contacting and working with Jenny's family would be the smart thing to do. Can't hurt. Might help, especially if they are feeling as frustrated as JR. Of course, we don't know if they will work with JR. Maybe that dog won't hunt.

 

[Lilibet]

JR is finally making use of Twitter. He's always said he doesn't know how to get a Twitter campaign going, so it looks like someone is doing it for him. He will post tweets on HFJC to copy and paste in our own Twitter accounts. It starts tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. PDT (he says PST but we did the clock thing already). Maybe since Mexico doesn't "celebrate" daylight savings time until April 2, he's using Mexican time when he says PST?
https://www.timeanddate.com/time/change/mexico/mexico-city

https://www.facebook.com/groups/helpfindjenny/permalink/782083888633324/

Event page
https://www.facebook.com/events/267599370348220/

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

BBM

I agree that contacting and working with Jenny's family would be the smart thing to do. Can't hurt. Might help, especially if they are feeling as frustrated as JR. Of course, we don't know if they will work with JR. Maybe that dog won't hunt.

Yes, why not just send one of her family members an email to see if they've heard anything? Give them a couple of weeks, and if he doesn't hear back, he could also try to reach out to the Chinese Embassy in Mexico himself (probably via the Chinese Consulate-General in San Francisco first). It certainly would be a lengthy and tedious process, but it would at least be much less costly than hiring a PI, attorney, etc. http://www.chinaconsulatesf.org/eng/

I really would love to see some MSM reports on Jenny's case as the anniversary of her disappearance nears. It would be great if someone could interview folks such as Detective Kinney from the Seattle Police Department (https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/34598/9), someone from Jenny's family, someone Jenny worked with or was friends with prior to her trip, a representative from the Chinese Embassy in Mexico, JR, his PI, his attorney, et al. just to hear different perspectives.

By the way, how was Jenny's family able to secure a meeting with the Chinese Embassy so quickly? From the article below, it appears that within a couple of weeks of her disappearance, Jenny's brother "sent the relevant information to the Chinese Embassy in Mexico, requesting the embassy to help find his sister," and "also asked the Chinese Chamber of Commerce in Mexico and the local police to help find [Jenny]." -via Google Translate- Then by the end of May, they were in Mexico, visiting with the Embassy officials and local police departments. I understand none of this necessarily means they were able to get any real answers (while the press release from the Embassy does say, "When informed of the situation, Chen's family was pleased," ... who knows ), but it just sounds so different than what JR has been reporting as his experience with various agencies ....
http://toutiao.weiyoubaba.com/a/c0jjf.shtml

 

[Lilibet]

Yes, why not just send one of her family members an email to see if they've heard anything? Give them a couple of weeks, and if he doesn't hear back, he could also try to reach out to the Chinese Embassy in Mexico himself (probably via the Chinese Consulate-General in San Francisco first). It certainly would be a lengthy and tedious process, but it would at least be much less costly than hiring a PI, attorney, etc. http://www.chinaconsulatesf.org/eng/

I really would love to see some MSM reports on Jenny's case as the anniversary of her disappearance nears. It would be great if someone could interview folks such as Detective Kinney from the Seattle Police Department (https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/34598/9), someone from Jenny's family, someone Jenny worked with or was friends with prior to her trip, a representative from the Chinese Embassy in Mexico, JR, his PI, his attorney, et al. just to hear different perspectives.

By the way, how was Jenny's family able to secure a meeting with the Chinese Embassy so quickly? From the article below, it appears that within a couple of weeks of her disappearance, Jenny's brother "sent the relevant information to the Chinese Embassy in Mexico, requesting the embassy to help find his sister," and "also asked the Chinese Chamber of Commerce in Mexico and the local police to help find [Jenny]." -via Google Translate- Then by the end of May, they were in Mexico, visiting with the Embassy officials and local police departments. I understand none of this necessarily means they were able to get any real answers (while the press release from the Embassy does say, "When informed of the situation, Chen's family was pleased," ... who knows ), but it just sounds so different than what JR has been reporting as his experience with various agencies ....
http://toutiao.weiyoubaba.com/a/c0jjf.shtml

BBM

All excellent ideas, imho (I hope the nickname is OK).

I see you've been around WS as long as I have. You may have observed victim's family members on threads or even in the news. In my experience, some are very focused and able reel in their emotions most of the time for the sake of finding their loved one. They follow suggestions and accept help. But others don't seem to have that card in their deck. They spin in circles, have volatile emotions, get angry at people they need to be nice to, ask advice and don't follow it, etc. They can't help it. It's how they are wired to react to a crisis. I put JR mostly in the latter category. And that's why none of your ideas have been or probably will be implemented IMO. It's really very sad and it's been torture to watch.

Of course, Jenny's brother had an advantage because she was still a citizen of China. He seemed very focused and organized. JR got frustrated and angry that the U.S. couldn't (repeat...could not) intervene in the case of a non-citizen lost in a foreign country. That would have been the moment to swallow his anger and pivot to join forces with Jenny's family and the Chinese. We will never know why he didn't. As you said, it would have been cheaper than hiring a PI and attorney. It also would have been cheaper to hire a publicist or ask a capable friend to handle publicity. It's not that hard.

I will be pleasantly surprised if there are the kind of MSM reports you describe on the anniversary of her disappearance. I would love to see them too. Again, it's not that hard to get the press on board (I've done it for Stephanie Warner). But it helps to have a steady and pleasant temperament to build relationships with reporters. If they like you and see a good story, they're on it.

I feel horrible for JR. Even if he had done all the things we are talking about his efforts might have failed. We are talking about Mexico, after all.
JMO

 

[Lilibet]

Here is a post about the Twitter campaign with official's Twitter addresses and suggested tweets. It's in Spanish, but you can tap the "translate" button for English if it's not there already.

It's scheduled for 12:00-1:00 pm CST (which covers most of Mexico except Baja and the east coast). As I mentioned yesterday, Mexico is on standard time still, while the U.S. is on daylight savings time. I wish someone on the page would translate the time for the U.S.

I'll try. According to google, on PDT I am currently an hour behind Mexican CST. Am I correct that the time for me to Tweet would be 11:00-12:00 PDT? If that's the case it's 12:00-1:00 MDT, 1:00-2:00 CDT and 2:00-3:00 EDT in the U.S.

https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/mexico

I don't even do Twitter, so if I'm wrong it's due to JR's inattention to detail and accuracy. This is what has driven me nuts for a year. Help people help you JR!!

https://www.facebook.com/events/267599370348220/permalink/268337840274373/

 

[Lilibet]

The Twitter campaign has begun.

On closer inspection, it appears that all the Twitter addresses are in Mexico. The suggested tweets are translated very poorly into English, so it might be wise for U.S. residents to use the Spanish tweets, since those reading them speak Spanish.

It's too bad that a U.S. Twitter campaign to government officials and MSM here wasn't launched at the same time. A missed opportunity. JMO

 

[DexterMorgan]

Why hasn't Jr told us how his P.I found Jenny's notebook hand writing on the notebook page so quickly.

So my question is. Did JR know where Jenny was at during her last stay.

Because that was the quickest evidence recovery ever from a p.i in another country. Jmo .

So why hasn't JR stated how his p.i stumbled across all of this a week after being hired.

But now his p.i is stumped with tracking the known suspect driver to see if the driver is in to nefarious other things.

Come on.

 

[Lilibet]

Tweets recommended by JR. My goodness JR! These will certainly advance your cause (sarcasm). They are a huge departure from the tweets recommended by the Mexican tweetstorm organizer. Does anyone else think these tweets are too inflammatory to do any good? I get it that he's frustrated and angry, but calling people corrupt seems a bit over-the-top even if it's true. What is he hoping to accomplish? Anyone?

Tweet 1: Asking the Oaxaca Attorney General if he's ignored Jenny's case because he's lazy, corrupt or both.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/helpfindjenny/permalink/782482695260110/

Tweet 2: Asking Mr Lopez Lopez why his administration won't lift a finger to help find Jenny. Accuses him of corruption "at its finest."
https://www.facebook.com/groups/helpfindjenny/permalink/782488928592820/

Tweet 3: Accuses truck company Kruger of protecting a possible kidnapper/murderer.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/helpfindjenny/permalink/782496095258770/

 

[GigTu]

I think he's finally out of denial and gotten angry. He has a whole grieving process to go through, and I'm sure this is part of it. So sad.

 

[webant]

Dex, I would like to acknowledge my faulty logic in regards to being so sure that the appointment of a ´´new´´ prosecutor must be associated with the new Governor´s administration. This might in fact be the reality of the matter, but there is no way at this time for me to be certain about it, because my Spanish language ability is too poor to understand the news reports coming out of Mexico on the subject.

 

[webant]

Tweets recommended by JR. My goodness JR! These will certainly advance your cause (sarcasm). They are a huge departure from the tweets recommended by the Mexican tweetstorm organizer. Does anyone else think these tweets are too inflammatory to do any good? I get it that he's frustrated and angry, but calling people corrupt seems a bit over-the-top even if it's true. What is he hoping to accomplish? Anyone?

Tweet 1: Asking the Oaxaca Attorney General if he's ignored Jenny's case because he's lazy, corrupt or both.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/helpfindjenny/permalink/782482695260110/

Tweet 2: Asking Mr Lopez Lopez why his administration won't lift a finger to help find Jenny. Accuses him of corruption "at its finest."
https://www.facebook.com/groups/helpfindjenny/permalink/782488928592820/

Tweet 3: Accuses truck company Kruger of protecting a possible kidnapper/murderer.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/helpfindjenny/permalink/782496095258770/

They might be too inflamatory to be persuasive; they might do more harm than good.

As someone who frequently enjoys traveling in Mexico (even with my poor Spanish language skills), I most definitely will not be forwarding words like these to any Mexican authorities.

 

[Lilibet]

I think he's finally out of denial and gotten angry. He has a whole grieving process to go through, and I'm sure this is part of it. So sad.

It is sad and you may be right about the anger being a stage of his grieving. But it's been his go-to emotion from the beginning whenever he gets blocked by authorities. At the beginning it was the U.S. Consulate and congressman who couldn't help because she wasn't a citizen. It's just how he rolls when he's frustrated. Not saying he isn't in the anger stage of grief now though. I sympathize with him. It's very sad. I just wish he had it in him to get out of his own way and do what is most effective, regardless of his emotions. And that's sad too.

 

[webant]

At the end of February, JR made the following post:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/helpfindjenny/
´´ Week of 2/27/2017- No updates. The new prosecutor has repeated the same message over the past month "we are trying to get a hold of the suspect". Give me a break.´´

Along with the suspect vehicle (the truck cab), the driver could be considered a loose end.

Here is a hypothesis:

A Websleuths member with experience on the subject, stated some time ago that in the member's opinion Jenny was too old and too strong mentally to be a likely candidate for trafficking. I am following this Websleuths member´s learned opinion in this. In addition, Jenny did not pose an appealing target of theft, in my opinion. So, I believe the most likely scenario is that she was the victim of sexual assault and murder. I don't think the Kugar trucking company has a presence in the US, but Corona certainly does have assets there. If JR was able to find evidence that proved what he suspects, it might be a winnable multi-million dollar lawsuit against Corona, if it could be brought to court in the US. This could be reason enough to make the evidence of the suspect truck disappear.

The justice system in the US has become, in my opinion, a self serving entity, in addition to a public serving entity as it was designed to be. I don't blame anyone for this, it is human nature and something that develops naturally over time. But it means that companies are often held liable for huge damage awards when their employees take actions that cause egregious damage to others. My feeling is that this is not always just. Should Corona really be held liable for a huge damage award, because of something one of their thousands of drivers might have done, when the driver´s action is something that Corona really could not have anticipated? My feeling is no, they should not be found liable for a large damage award in a case like that. But in the US, they might be found liable for a huge damage award, or settle out of court. I imagine that a company like Corona could feel the same way I do about the matter.

There are examples of US companies possibly doing much worse. Remember the case of Karen Silkwood?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Silkwood

 

[DexterMorgan]

At the end of February, JR made the following post:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/helpfindjenny/
´´ Week of 2/27/2017- No updates. The new prosecutor has repeated the same message over the past month "we are trying to get a hold of the suspect". Give me a break.´´

Along with the suspect vehicle (the truck cab), the driver could be considered a loose end.

Here is a hypothesis:

A Websleuths member with experience on the subject, stated some time ago that in the member's opinion Jenny was too old and too strong mentally to be a likely candidate for trafficking. I am following this Websleuths member´s learned opinion in this. In addition, Jenny did not pose an appealing target of theft, in my opinion. So, I believe the most likely scenario is that she was the victim of sexual assault and murder. I don't think the Kugar trucking company has a presence in the US, but Corona certainly does have assets there. If JR was able to find evidence that proved what he suspects, it would likely be a winnable multi-million dollar lawsuit against Corona, if it could be brought to court in the US. This could be reason enough to make the evidence of the suspect truck disappear.

The justice system in the US has become, in my opinion, a self serving entity, in addition to a public serving entity as it was designed to be. I don't blame anyone for this, it is human nature and something that develops naturally over time. But it means that companies are often held liable for huge damage awards when their employees take actions that cause egregious damage to others. My feeling is that this is not just. Should Corona really be held liable for a huge damage award, because of something one of their thousands of drivers might have done, when the driver´s action is something that Corona really could not have anticipated? My feeling is no, they should not be found liable for a large damage award in a case like that. But in the US, they likely would be found liable for a huge damage award. I imagine that a company like Corona could feel the same way I do about the matter.

There are examples of US companies possibly doing much worse. Remember the case of Karen Silkwood?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Silkwood

I think the trucking company is a 3rd party that transports loads for Corona and whomever else.

So he would have to sue them. Now I'm sure Corona made sure that the transportation company there is bonded and insured.

So unless Corona hired these drivers or contracted with these drivers personally ; Then Corona should be in the clear.

Plus it's possible that Corona doesn't even have direct access to that companies gps.

 

[webant]

I think the trucking company is a 3rd party that transports loads for Corona and whomever else.

So he would have to sue them. Now I'm sure Corona made sure that the transportation company there is bonded and insured.

So unless Corona hired these drivers or contracted with these drivers personally ; Then Corona should be in the clear.

Plus it's possible that Corona doesn't even have direct access to that companies gps.

That would probably be Corona´s position. How well it would play out in a US court is anyone's guess.

I wouldn't be surprised if Corona never did have any GPS data on the suspect vehicle.

 

[DexterMorgan]

That would probably be Corona´s position. How well it would play out in a US court is anyone's guess.

I wouldn't be surprised if Corona never did have any GPS data on the suspect vehicle.

Agree Web.

Someone earlier said that Trucking company or it's owners have clout in Mexico.

And I believe it due to corruption in Mexico.

Now I'm not saying that some drivers don't participate with running certain cartel drugs within their loads.

But it is a possibility. Also. I'm pretty sure the cops find ways to get cases of beer while letting drivers go on infractions.

So Jr definitely has a problem when dealing with this company.

Now in regards to lawsuits in Mexico. I don't think they exists as much as here.

Because remember the bus full of students that were kidnapped and killed on request of the mayor that wanted to stop the protests.

Well I haven't heard of any lawsuits coming from that case as of yet. But I could be wrong.

Anyways. You are right Web. Thanks.

 

[Lilibet]

I just went back to the previous thread to re-read our lengthy conversation about the GPS record, including webant's calls to Omnitrac. For anyone so inclined, it's worth a read from posts numbered 935-1143 approximately. Lots of great sleuthing and some digressing. But we came to the conclusion that the GPS records we were looking at were more of a summary. Way back in September we felt that JR needed to have his attorney contact Omnitrac for the real record. There was even talk of messaging him on the FB group with the info webant found. I don't think we had any group members reading at that time. But this was all information his PI should have known anyway. I'm not sure why JR is mentioning it now as if it's something new. But anyway, we rocked! Anyone new on the thread might want to take a look.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...axaca-11-April-2016-2&p=12823870#post12823870

 

[Lilibet]

I'm mining thread #2 for ideas. Here is a brilliant summary by slowpoke in October of the thinking of JR vs LE and the truck companies and drivers.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...axaca-11-April-2016-2&p=12854553#post12854553

Nothing has changed.

Slowpoke concludes (be sure to read the whole post):

"So, what next? To Kugar, Grupo Modelo, the drivers and Oaxaca police, JR is barking up the wrong tree. They feel they did their part, and JR needs to take his search elsewhere. To JR, the parties are covering up or lying, so he is not about to take the search elsewhere. He wants press coverage, I guess he hopes this will pressure the police to polygraph the drivers and get the true gps data from the gps company."
BBM

So almost six months after slowpoke nailed it (and nine months after learning about the Corona driver) JR is still laser-focused on the truck driver and the corruption of LE, etc. Could the entire Corona story be a red herring, as one poster said? And if so, by whom? Should JR have put all his eggs in the Corona basket, dismissing the possibility that Jenny was still backpacking as her parents were told? Who wouldn't jump at that possibility? I have no answers, only questions. But something is wrong with this picture.

I'm so tired of trying to make sense of this case. I probably never should have gone back to reread parts of thread #2. Maybe I'll feel less dark about it in the morning. JMO

 

[webant]

Should JR have put all his eggs in the Corona basket, dismissing the possibility that Jenny was still backpacking as her parents were told? Who wouldn't jump at that possibility?

I´ve thought it would be good if we could ask Jenny´s family if they have had any contact from Jenny. But, Jenny had been in regular weekly contact with her family, and I think it unlikely that she would have let her family make the trip to Mexico that they did, in order to search for Jenny. If Jenny had been running away from JR, I doubt we would have ever seen Jenny´s family in Mexico looking for her.

 

[webant]

Agree Web.

Someone earlier said that Trucking company or it's owners have clout in Mexico.

And I believe it due to corruption in Mexico.

Now I'm not saying that some drivers don't participate with running certain cartel drugs within their loads.

But it is a possibility. Also. I'm pretty sure the cops find ways to get cases of beer while letting drivers go on infractions.

So Jr definitely has a problem when dealing with this company.

Now in regards to lawsuits in Mexico. I don't think they exists as much as here.

Because remember the bus full of students that were kidnapped and killed on request of the mayor that wanted to stop the protests.

Well I haven't heard of any lawsuits coming from that case as of yet. But I could be wrong.

Anyways. You are right Web. Thanks.

I agree with everything you wrote here, Dex. The trucking company´s owners must be very powerful people, to own a company of such value. They would have power and influence in the US if they were based there, and I´m sure they have it in Mexico.