MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #3

[BetteDavisEyes]

..along with substance abuse.
Otherwise known as “partying”.

The Crumbleys also spent a lot of time hanging out at local bars. Makes me wonder if either of them was gainfully employed. Jennifer's real estate license expired in 2018, and James changed jobs frequently (LinkedIn).

 

[passionflower]

Yup. Hard to read. HAZARD WARNING LIGHTS FLASHING in the parent's faces.

1.) Only friend moved away

2.) His dog died

3.) He appeared sad and depressed

4.) Sending depressing texts to his mom

5.) Torturing animals

6.) Put bird's head in school bathroom

....... BOUGHT HIM A GUN TOOK HIM TARGET PRACTICING ......

...... IGNORED HIM ......

This sums it up

 

[passionflower]

Yup. Hard to read. HAZARD WARNING LIGHTS FLASHING in the parent's faces.

1.) Only friend moved away

2.) His dog died

3.) He appeared sad and depressed

4.) Sending depressing texts to his mom

5.) Torturing animals

6.) Put bird's head in school bathroom

....... BOUGHT HIM A GUN TOOK HIM TARGET PRACTICING ......

...... IGNORED HIM ......

This sums it up

DocumentCloud

Wow. Damning stuff. These new details certainly begin to paint a more complete picture.

The most shocking part is the mother's statement saying her son's destiny is done and she has to take care of herself. Clear to me that the parents had already written their son off, basically abdicating any and all care and responsibility.

As I alluded to in a previous post, maybe buying him a GUN and allowing already dire, festering issues to take their horrific course was their plan to be permanently rid of him (death or prison). If this is the case, they may be in for way more than multiple counts of involuntary manslaughter. Either way, my god, these two people are beyond horrific.

JMO

 

[passionflower]

I wonder about his early childhood. Was he really wanted? Did he get proper care back then? We know he was neglected in his teen years.

 

[passionflower]

So many cries for help totally ignored! Not a close family member? Makes me think the oldest son feared for his own safety and fled.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I’m a bit unsettled about JenC’s alleged affair being brought into the muck. I suppose it goes to proving neglect and indifference to EC’s depression and homicidal tendencies. However, I hope this doesn’t go the route that Justin Ross Harris’s trial did in the death of his son Cooper. In that case, the sexting became the highlight, and his defense team appealed his conviction based on “prejudicial testimony.”

I am not defending JenC. If she was partying, grooming horses, making explicit videos with her boyfriend, she wasn’t paying attention to her child - and that does support evidence of neglect. She clearly ignored signs, was in denial or just willful ignorance of EC’s state of mind. But does it prove intent?

It’s a slippery slope. Many people have affairs, but most don’t have children who go on to become school annihilators.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

During his interview with Superintendent Tim Throne, WDIV anchor Devin Scillian asked if there had been previous contacts with the Crumbleys regarding their son. Mr. Throne didn't answer specifically, but I got the impression that this was not their first rodeo with school personnel. JMO

Oxford schools superintendent Tim Throne discusses shooting: ‘Our hearts are broken, but our spirit is not’ (clickondetroit.com)

...Throne said he isn’t comfortable talking about the interactions the school had with the parents of the suspected shooter, who are also facing charges. He seems aligned with the prosecutor’s approach so far.

“I think that the people who are in jail today,” Throne said.

“Think they belong there?” Devin Scillian said.

“We want justice. We want accountability. I think that’s what I’ll say,” Throne said...

 

[Sundog]

I’m a bit unsettled about JenC’s alleged affair being brought into the muck. I suppose it goes to proving neglect and indifference to EC’s depression and homicidal tendencies. However, I hope this doesn’t go the route that Justin Ross Harris’s trial did in the death of his son Cooper. In that case, the sexting became the highlight, and his defense team appealed his conviction based on “prejudicial testimony.”

I am not defending JenC. If she was partying, grooming horses, making explicit videos with her boyfriend, she wasn’t paying attention to her child - and that does support evidence of neglect. She clearly ignored signs, was in denial or just willful ignorance of EC’s state of mind. But does it prove intent?

It’s a slippery slope. Many people have affairs, but most don’t have children who go on to become school annihilators.

I share this concern.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I’m a bit unsettled about JenC’s alleged affair being brought into the muck. I suppose it goes to proving neglect and indifference to EC’s depression and homicidal tendencies. However, I hope this doesn’t go the route that Justin Ross Harris’s trial did in the death of his son Cooper. In that case, the sexting became the highlight, and his defense team appealed his conviction based on “prejudicial testimony.”

I am not defending JenC. If she was partying, grooming horses, making explicit videos with her boyfriend, she wasn’t paying attention to her child - and that does support evidence of neglect. She clearly ignored signs, was in denial or just willful ignorance of EC’s state of mind. But does it prove intent?

It’s a slippery slope. Many people have affairs, but most don’t have children who go on to become school annihilators.

Perhaps this explains why the Crumbleys hired a law firm that includes various sex charges in their practice areas. I learned about Smith & Lehman when they defended convicted sex abuser of female gymnasts, Larry Nassar.

Smith Lehman, PC (defendingabuse.com)

Degrees of Criminal Sexual Misconduct
Title IX
Juvenile Criminal Sexual Conduct
Criminal Sexual Conduct
Sexual Consent and Rape defense
Appeals and Post-Conviction
Child Protective Services Cases
Sexting
Professionals Accused of Sex Crimes
Child Abuse Defense
Child *advertiser censored* & Internet Crimes

 

[SuziQ]

So. How long was it from the time the parents left the school until the time the shooting started? I find it odd that the shooting starts at 1:00, figure by the time word gets around is about on par with the time the mother is texting her son. When did the dad verify that Ethans gun was missing? If he called 911 at 1:40 it would seem that he did not check on the gun until after the alerts about an active shooter went out. Seems like mom immediately knew her son was involved. I still believe that these parents at the very least had a strong suspicion that their son would do this.

Exactly. Neither parent rushed to the school to see if their son was one of the victims shot. In the least they would have gone to the reunification center to pick Ethan up and offer support to their traumatized child. No. They immediately knew Ethan was the shooter and proceeded to confirm it by looking for the gun and sending him a text not to kill himself. Their actions were consciousness of guilt.

Their attorney's argument falls flat. Moo.

 

[Cool Cats]

I wonder about his early childhood. Was he really wanted? Did he get proper care back then? We know he was neglected in his teen years.

Ex-neighbor says she warned Children's Protective Services about Oxford shooter's parents

Kayla LeMieux said that the Crumbley parents, James and Jennifer, would often leave their son alone at home while they went to bars, the Detroit Free Press reported on Sunday.

LeMieux reportedly spoke with the Crumbley parents about leaving their son alone while they go out to drink at bars, according to 2015 Facebook messages that were obtained by the news outlet.

LeMieux, who lived in the same residential complex as the Crumbleys, said that she made an anonymous phone complaint to CPS because she was concerned about the boy being left alone at home. But she doesn't know if any action was taken after her complaint.

"When they were gone, [Ethan Crumbley] would come knock on our door," she said, according to the Detroit Free Press. Crumbley would ask LeMieux to call his parents on his behalf because they didn't leave a phone with him, she said.

 

[magicforest]

That motion certainly paints a very damning picture. So many red flags about EC. His only friend moves, the dog dies, he's got a dead bird's head in his room, sends his mom disturbing texts and their solution is to buy him a gun. Oh, and his older half-brother had left the home recently after some kind of clash with JeC, not mentioned in the motion, but from the brother himself. Lots going on, none of it positive. Rather than say, taking him to counseling or even maybe talking to him themselves, they buy him a gun. And his mom's comments about he's reached his destiny? Wow.

I have a feeling things are going to get real ugly between the parents. I wonder how much JaC knew about JeC's extra-marital activities? Or did he have his own?

No way their bond will get lowered, imo.

Why would a highly experienced set of criminal defense attorneys (Smith et al.) take on both parents as clients, knowing that the probability of the parents turning on each other and conflict of interest is likely? Greed, notoriety? Does anyone know if this happens frequently? I just can't wrap my head around why unless it's ego/money based.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

The content of the text messages E. sent his mother hasn't been released yet, correct?

It seems clear to me that his parents were unable to be there for him mentally/ emotionally while battling their own issues. If only this had been addressed years before when the neighbor contacted CPS

MOO.

 

[Cool Cats]

Why would a highly experienced set of criminal defense attorneys (Smith et al.) take on both parents as clients, knowing that the probability of the parents turning on each other and conflict of interest is likely? Greed, notoriety? Does anyone know if this happens frequently? I just can't wrap my head around why unless it's ego/money based.

It costs less $ for the parents to use the same law firm and this law firm is getting alot of publicity. That brings in more clients which brings in more $.

 

[Ruminations]

Oxford school shooting suspect's mom texted son not to kill himself, defense lawyers say

When Jennifer Crumbley texted her son "Don't do it" on the day of the deadly Oxford High School shooting, she was reaching out to tell him not to kill himself, according to a new court filing.

This detail was disclosed Wednesday in a document seeking a lower bond for Jennifer and James Crumbley.

The filing in Rochester Hills District Court then cited the Jennifer Crumbley's "Don't do it" text to Ethan Crumbley that has made international headlines. The distinction could be important if the prosecution plans to use the text as evidence Jennifer Crumbley knew her son was dangerous.

Defense attorneys for the first time gave their account of how the Crumbleys felt following the shooting, and why they believe the prosecution will not be able to prove its case, specifically, that the Crumbleys knew their son would shoot up his school with a gun they had bought him as an early Christmas present.

"The prosecution will not be able to prove that the Crumbleys ... knew their son was a danger to other students, or that they knew there was a situation that required them to take care to avoid injuring another," defense attorneys Shannon Smith and Mariell Lehman wrote in the filing.

"When Mrs. Crumbley texted Ethan, 'Don't do it,' ... the shootings had already happened, Mr. Crumbley had determined the gun was missing and had notified authorities, and Mrs. Crumbley was texting her son to tell him not to kill himself," the defense states in the filing, later adding:

"They did not know Ethan was a threat to anyone; and they certainly did not anticipate or cause the tragedy that unfolded at Oxford High School."

And that is the most parental anecdote I have heard about her or her husband.

 

[MrsWatson]

Read: Conversation between a detective and the attorney for James and Jennifer Crumbley before arrests

 

[MrsWatson]

Why would a highly experienced set of criminal defense attorneys (Smith et al.) take on both parents as clients, knowing that the probability of the parents turning on each other and conflict of interest is likely? Greed, notoriety? Does anyone know if this happens frequently? I just can't wrap my head around why unless it's ego/money based.

I see the dual representation going pear-shaped quickly. Did JaC know about JeC's extra-curricular activities or did he find out through discovery? The attorneys may have been blindsided by it, as well.

IMO, this case will be one for law books, so that alone could be the reason they are involved.

 

[Puzzles]

Excerpt from recently released article, link below:

"...The filing also details that the parents had four cell phones at the time of their arrest and "attempted to destroy one of the phones."...

To the parents of EC: You may be set free, you may run, you may hide, but we will not forget your negligence in failing your son, and hence, failing your entire community.

To the children murdered in their school: Madisyn Baldwin, Tate Myre, Hana St Juliana, Justin Shilling:
As I read and post here about your murderer and his parents, my thoughts are first with you, and your grieving loved ones.

Ethan Crumbley's parents: Prosecutors say Michigan shooting suspect's parents willfully disregarded signs that their son was a threat - CNN

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Yours is a compelling argument @Lux et Veritas – well conceived and effectively supported. Its presentation is powerful and spirited.

It has me reconsidering entrenched beliefs within this 80-year-old mind which led to my earlier post
#416. Thank you.

I suggest this post alone earns you your avatar.

Thank you for your very kind words, Puzzles. : )

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Parents of Michigan school shooting suspect saw warning signs, prosecutors say (nbcnews.com)

A filing in defense of James and Jennifer Crumbley's bond amounts claims they tended to their horses as their son exhibited disturbing behavior.

The parents of the teenager charged with killing four classmates in Michigan last month ignored warning signs, including disturbing messages, and did not act, prosecutors said in a court filing Thursday.

James and Jennifer Crumbley are charged with four counts each of involuntary manslaughter for allegedly failing to intervene despite their child's expressions of violence. The were taken into custody Dec. 4 in Detroit and have pleaded not guilty. The couple is arguing their bond, set at $500,000 each, should be lowered.

Thursday's filing from the office of Oakland County Prosecutor Karen D. McDonald argued that that bond is "appropriate" because the couple tried to flee and were well aware of the shooting suspect's "warning signs," including animal torture, watching video of shootings and creating disturbing and violent drawings...