MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #3

[BetteDavisEyes]

The defense attorneys are really an abrasive pair and hard for me to take seriously. Their actions and narrative are so sophomoric it's difficult to watch. I believe they are way over their heads with this case and won't see it to the end. Are they court appointed...I can't remember. MO

Smith/Lehman is a high-profile Oakland County law firm. Shannon Smith didn't do so well defending Larry Nassar for his sex crimes - her area of legal expertise. I agree that SS and her co-counsel are not equipped to handle a case of this magnitude. After today's outcome, I would not be surprised if the Crumbleys ditch this incompetent team and request court-appointed counsel. JMO

 

[cujenn81]

Sorry for any typos!! And anything I may have missed!!

You were amazing! THANK YOU!

 

[Lillymac]

Smith/Lehman is a high-profile Oakland County law firm. Shannon Smith didn't do so well defending Larry Nassar for his sex crimes - her area of legal expertise. I agree that SS and her co-counsel are not equipped to handle a case of this magnitude. After today's outcome, I would not be surprised if the Crumbleys ditch this incompetent team and request court-appointed counsel. JMO

I agree and I thought I would go thru the t.v. if they said, "shoot up the school" one more time.

 

[borndem]

Smith/Lehman is a high-profile Oakland County law firm. Shannon Smith didn't do so well defending Larry Nassar for his sex crimes - her area of legal expertise. I agree that SS and her co-counsel are not equipped to handle a case of this magnitude. After today's outcome, I would not be surprised if the Crumbleys ditch this incompetent team and request court-appointed counsel. JMO

Good point, BDE. Still SMH about today's doings. This type of case doesn't come around all that often, so maybe they are a bit flat-footed on this kind of situation.
Do you think the Crumbleys are smart enuff to see what a lousy job they are doing? If they do ditch the firm, will the court allow court-appointed counsel at the expense of the state or county? I wonder how or what made the Crumbleys choose this firm? Or maybe these attorneys just aren't able to find a good defense tactic because it is IMO not one that you see every day. Or maybe the Crumbleys don't think they're in that much trouble and aren't really worried about it.
I agree that it will be interesting to see how this part of it goes...

 

[borndem]

Sorry for any typos!! And anything I may have missed!!

Typos/schmypos -- you are doing an amazing job! Many thanks!

 

[mickey2942]

Ethan Crumbley: School shooting suspect said he asked his parents to get him professional help. But they laughed or said 'suck it up,' he told a friend - CNN

I think that the parents being charged in the "School Shooting" is a real "wake up" call for a lot of people who have guns. Keep the guns locked up, under your control. Teens can be impulsive, added with Possible mental illness. No way should this teen have had access to weapons.

 

[MrsWatson]

Good point, BDE. Still SMH about today's doings. This type of case doesn't come around all that often, so maybe they are a bit flat-footed on this kind of situation.
Do you think the Crumbleys are smart enuff to see what a lousy job they are doing? If they do ditch the firm, will the court allow court-appointed counsel at the expense of the state or county? I wonder how or what made the Crumbleys choose this firm? Or maybe these attorneys just aren't able to find a good defense tactic because it is IMO not one that you see every day. Or maybe the Crumbleys don't think they're in that much trouble and aren't really worried about it.
I agree that it will be interesting to see how this part of it goes...

BBM

I've wondered that, myself. Which leads me to darker thoughts. Ethan had approached both parents with concerns about his mental health. His mom laughed and his dad gave him some pills and told him to suck it up. And they bought him a gun and did not secure it. So did they think the gun would take care of their Ethan problem, and were surprised when it created an entirely different type of problem? And they did a runner, which makes me think they had a good idea they were in a lot of trouble, themselves. But who knows, none of the parents actions make any sense to me. (not paying the mortgage yet having access to funds and maintaining horses, an expensive hobby, for example)

And count me as another one who doesn't understand why they picked this firm. It's not as if SE MI has a lack of criminal defense attorneys that may have been more suited to this case.

 

[MrsWatson]

James, Jennifer Crumbley to stand trial after breakdown in court

"The court finds that the deaths of the four victims could have been avoided if James and Jennifer Crumbley exercised ordinary care and diligence in the care of their son," 52-3 District Court Judge Julie Nicholson said in reaching her decision. "There was extensive testimony that Ethan Crumbley was certainly a troubled young man, and that the (parents) had knowledge of that situation. But they purchased a gun, which he believed was his and and that he was free to use."

 

[Tabulator]

From what I understand, these preliminary hearings are designed to give "just enough information" to determine if a full trial is warranted. The prosecution doesn't want to give away their strategy or show ALL of their exhibits... I really think they did an excellent job proving their case.

As for the defense... I was unimpressed with their questioning and the final summation was minimal. They seemed completely unprepared - not good for the parents.

If the hearing is any indication, we will see an incredibly organized and well-prepared prosecution. There is A LOT more here - so many text messages and so many other witnesses. The trial will be VERY interesting.

All my opinion, of course.

As for Kristin Esq. And BetteDavisEyes keeping us all informed - Amazing and awesome, as usual! We are so fortunate to have you so active in this thread. ❤

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Does anyone think there is a chance James and Jennifer will face other charges, such as abuse (emotional - I am not implying any kind of physical abuse) or neglect (or similar) with regards to Ethan?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Subscriber feature. You might not be able to read entire article.

Four chilling revelations on a plot to kill students at Oxford (detroitnews.com)

Rochester Hills — Three days before allegedly carrying out a shooting rampage at Oxford High School, Ethan Crumbley and his mother reserved a 30-minute slot at a gun range, purchased a paper target and two boxes of ammunition.

The 15-year-old is captured at ease on surveillance video while loading and racking the gun and firing repeatedly.

His mother then takes a turn. She appears to struggle with the weapon before Ethan steps in to guide her and she fires a few rounds.

The chilling 9-minute video was aired Thursday in a Rochester Hills courtroom during the second day of the preliminary examination for the teen's parents. Testimony also detailed the couple's allegedly "uncaring" behavior and the teen's journal entries about his plans for the attack and Ethan's apparent mental health struggles...

 

[Mominmi]

Prosecution was sharp today in her rebuttal closing. Not knowing the law in MI, I thought the defense attorneys did a decent job, but then the prosecution blew them out of the water.

I also thought the prosecution did an excellent job. Those parents! omg! There ought to be a law, if there’s not!

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I agree and I thought I would go thru the t.v. if they said, "shoot up the school" one more time.

SS and ML act like a couple of middle school cheerleaders. They might as well bring pom poms into court They seem more like pals with their clients instead of providing competent legal representation. I honestly felt that SS and ML were convinced they had a slam dunk and that the Crumbleys would be set free yesterday and not have to face a trial.

As much as I detested James and Jennifer's previous childish antics in court (blowing kisses, making hand gestures, etc.), I hope they had an opportunity to meet yesterday following the hearing. They might want to rethink their choice of representation by two attorneys who are not skilled in handling this type of case. If the Crumbleys continue to be represented by SS and ML and are convicted, they would be justified in appealing based on inadequate counsel. JMO

 

[Ruminations]

Ethan Crumbley: School shooting suspect said he asked his parents to get him professional help. But they laughed or said 'suck it up,' he told a friend - CNN

I think that the parents being charged in the "School Shooting" is a real "wake up" call for a lot of people who have guns. Keep the guns locked up, under your control. Teens can be impulsive, added with Possible mental illness. No way should this teen have had access to weapons.

If my teens/young adults got a hold of my phone, they can’t access it without my passcode or biometrics. There is no reason that firearms can’t have the same cautions built in. Firearms for self protection would be far more effective if, for instance, an intruder could not use it against a defender who lost control of it.

 

[Lillymac]

SS and ML act like a couple of middle school cheerleaders. They might as well bring pom poms into court They seem more like pals with their clients instead of providing competent legal representation. I honestly felt that SS and ML were convinced they had a slam dunk and that the Crumbleys would be set free yesterday and not have to face a trial.

As much as I detested James and Jennifer's previous childish antics in court (blowing kisses, making hand gestures, etc.), I hope they had an opportunity to meet yesterday following the hearing. They might want to rethink their choice of representation by two attorneys who are not skilled in handling this type of case. If the Crumbleys continue to be represented by SS and ML and are convicted, they would be justified in appealing based on inadequate counsel. JMO

Total agreement! That's a big thumbs up! Did you notice the brunette give the judge a double thumbs up!! So unprofessional...

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Total agreement! That's a big thumbs up! Did you notice the brunette give the judge a double thumbs up!! So unprofessional...

How about when both attorneys bolted out of their seats and shouted, "OBJECTION!" loud enough for the entire county to hear? I thought, "These two are unbelievable!" JMO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

More evidence revealed during Crumbley parents’ court hearing: Here’s what’s new (clickondetroit.com)

Witnesses provide new details, perspectives in events before, after Oxford High School shooting

The parents of the suspected Oxford High School shooter have been bound over for trial after two days’ worth of evidence was presented in court during the couple’s preliminary examination hearing.

James and Jennifer Crumbley, parents of Ethan Crumbley, are each facing four involuntary manslaughter charges for their alleged role in failing to prevent the shooting. Ethan Crumbley is accused of opening fire during school hours on Nov. 30, 2021, killing four students and injuring seven other people.

The Crumbley parents appeared in court Thursday for the second half of their preliminary exam, where witness accounts revealed new details and gave new perspective about events leading up to and following the fatal mass shooting. District court judge Julie Nicholson ultimately decided that James and Jennifer Crumbley will stand trial for their charges.

In the months following the Oxford High School shooting, a lot of evidence has been presented -- here’s the new information we learned on Feb. 25, 2022...

 

[ilovewings]

More evidence revealed during Crumbley parents’ court hearing: Here’s what’s new (clickondetroit.com)

Witnesses provide new details, perspectives in events before, after Oxford High School shooting

The parents of the suspected Oxford High School shooter have been bound over for trial after two days’ worth of evidence was presented in court during the couple’s preliminary examination hearing.

James and Jennifer Crumbley, parents of Ethan Crumbley, are each facing four involuntary manslaughter charges for their alleged role in failing to prevent the shooting. Ethan Crumbley is accused of opening fire during school hours on Nov. 30, 2021, killing four students and injuring seven other people.

The Crumbley parents appeared in court Thursday for the second half of their preliminary exam, where witness accounts revealed new details and gave new perspective about events leading up to and following the fatal mass shooting. District court judge Julie Nicholson ultimately decided that James and Jennifer Crumbley will stand trial for their charges.

In the months following the Oxford High School shooting, a lot of evidence has been presented -- here’s the new information we learned on Feb. 25, 2022...

Thank you for keeping us updated regarding this case. I am glad that the parents have been charged and bound over for trial.

 

[borndem]

From what I understand, these preliminary hearings are designed to give "just enough information" to determine if a full trial is warranted. The prosecution doesn't want to give away their strategy or show ALL of their exhibits... I really think they did an excellent job proving their case.

As for the defense... I was unimpressed with their questioning and the final summation was minimal. They seemed completely unprepared - not good for the parents.

If the hearing is any indication, we will see an incredibly organized and well-prepared prosecution. There is A LOT more here - so many text messages and so many other witnesses. The trial will be VERY interesting.

All my opinion, of course.

As for Kristin Esq. And BetteDavisEyes keeping us all informed - Amazing and awesome, as usual! We are so fortunate to have you so active in this thread. ❤

 

[borndem]

A big Thank You to @BetteDavisEyes for her keeping us informed.

I kinda wonder if the defense team knows they don't have a leg to stand on in this one. It could be that they are using their time on other upcoming cases, or maybe they are holding back until the trial (that's doubtful IMO.
As we all know, with respect to defense attorneys, their biggest charge is to assure their client(s) get(s) a fair trial. Maybe that's all they feel they can do on this one...
What could they say or do to minimize their actions/in-actions in their defense?