GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #4

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ilovewings said:
www.clickondetroit.com

Attorney: Oxford High School shooter ‘did not know’ victims

The Oxford High School shooter, who admitted Monday to fatally shooting four students and shooting and injuring several others, apparently did not target his victims in the Nov. 30, 2021, shooting.
www.clickondetroit.com www.clickondetroit.com

The most important testimony from Ethan Crumbley is this: he testified that he gave money to his father to buy the gun he used to kill people and more importantly he testified the gun was not locked. This is in direct contradiction to his parents who had previously testified the gun was locked.
Click to expand...

I don't remember early discussions we had about whether or not Michigan law requires that guns be locked. IIRC, that is not a requirement of the law in Michigan, but will look online to verify.
 
ilovewings said:
www.clickondetroit.com

Attorney: Oxford High School shooter ‘did not know’ victims

The Oxford High School shooter, who admitted Monday to fatally shooting four students and shooting and injuring several others, apparently did not target his victims in the Nov. 30, 2021, shooting.
www.clickondetroit.com www.clickondetroit.com

The most important testimony from Ethan Crumbley is this: he testified that he gave money to his father to buy the gun he used to kill people and more importantly he testified the gun was not locked. This is in direct contradiction to his parents who had previously testified the gun was locked.
Click to expand...
The parents had also said that gun was a "gift" to Ethan, not that he paid for it with his own money.
 
ilovewings said:
They didn't have any questions/answers after the headline
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The presser was supposed to start at 10:40 but didn't begin until 10:50. Lasted only 10 minutes. In response to most questions, KM said that it is too early to address issues like length of sentence, possibility of parole, where EC would be incarcerated, how the guilty plea might impact the parents' trial, etc.
 
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www.clickondetroit.com

Attorney: Oxford High School shooter ‘did not know’ victims

The Oxford High School shooter, who admitted Monday to fatally shooting four students and shooting and injuring several others, apparently did not target his victims in the Nov. 30, 2021, shooting.
www.clickondetroit.com www.clickondetroit.com
The Oxford High School shooter, who admitted Monday to fatally shooting four students and shooting and injuring several others, apparently did not target his victims in the Nov. 30, 2021, shooting.

During a court hearing on Monday, Ethan Crumbley, 16, pleaded guilty to all 24 felony charges against him in connection with the fatal shooting. Crumbley opened fire last winter during school hours, killing four students and injuring seven people with a 9 mm handgun.

The shooter’s attorney, Paulette Michel Loftin, suggested Monday that the then-sophomore student did not specifically target the victims killed and hurt in the school shooting. Speaking after the court hearing, Loftin said Crumbley “did not know them.”...
 
www.detroitnews.com

Emotions run high as Ethan Crumbley pleads guilty in Oxford High shooting

Defense attorneys Monday entered the guilty plea to 24 criminal charges including terrorism causing death and first-degree murder, which carry up to life in prison.
www.detroitnews.com
Pontiac — A stoic Ethan Crumbley admitted to an Oakland County judge Monday that he went on a shooting rampage in Oxford High School last year that left four of his classmates dead and seven others wounded, prompting emotional responses from victims' families in the courtroom.

Before Oakland County Circuit Court Judge Kwame Rowe, Crumbley’s attorneys Monday entered the guilty plea to 24 criminal charges including terrorism causing death and first-degree murder, which carry up to life in prison. The 16-year-old was charged as an adult and required to admit that he intentionally tried to shoot and kill Madisyn Baldwin, Tate Myre, Hana St. Juliana and Justin Shilling as well as the six other students and one teacher.

Nicole Beausoliel, whose daughter, Madisyn Baldwin, was fatally shot, began shaking and choking back sobs at the mention of her daughter’s name. She was consoled and hugged by two women.

Paulette Michel Loftin, Crumbley’s lawyer, said before his plea that attorneys withdrew their previous intention of advancing an insanity defense. Outside the courtroom after the 26-minute hearing, Loftin described Crumbley as remorseful and said the plea was his idea...
 
What he did is unfathomable, I cannot even begin to imagine the pain he has caused to his victims' loved ones and family.

That said, please please PLEASE prosecute his worthless and self-absorbed "parents" to the fullest degree!!
 
www.clickondetroit.com

Here’s what’s next for Oxford High School shooter after guilty plea

The question that has everyone concerned is if the Oakland County Prosecutor will seek life without parole for the 16-year-old convicted Oxford High School shooter.
www.clickondetroit.com www.clickondetroit.com
The question that has everyone concerned is if the Oakland County Prosecutor will seek life without parole for the 16-year-old convicted Oxford High School shooter.

Local 4 spoke with Karen McDonald to see if there was any chance that he could get out of prison decades from now.

McDonald said it seemed unlikely because the Supreme Court ruled it is unconstitutional to sentence a juvenile to life without the possibility of parole...

eji.org

Miller v. Alabama

EJI won a SCOTUS ruling striking death-in-prison sentences for children.
eji.org eji.org
 

Pontiac ― Ethan Crumbley pleaded guilty Monday to 24 charges related to the Nov. 30 Oxford High School mass shooting that killed four students and wounded seven other people, and for the first time revealed key details about the gun he used in the rampage, a development that could impact the criminal case against his parents.

In Oakland County Circuit Court, Crumbley said he gave his father the money to buy the gun and that the weapon was not locked up on the day of the shooting. Ethan's parents, James and Jennifer Crumbley, have been accused by prosecutors of "gross negligence" that led to the killings and face up to 15 years in prison if found guilty on four counts each of involuntary manslaughter.

It was the first time the 16-year-old, who pleaded guilty Monday to criminal charges including first-degree murder and terrorism, detailed how he got the weapon, Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald said at a press conference after the hearing...
 
ChatteringBirds said:
His apparent remorse is uncommon among school shooters. If only he had received some mental health treatment and not had access to a firearm. JMO.
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A history of school shootings in US: Teenaged shooters often used parent’s licensed weapons
indianexpress.com

A history of school shootings in US: Teenaged shooters often used parent’s licensed weapons

Over the past two decades, the US has seen a spate of mass shootings in schools, fuelling a debate on gun control laws and safety of students. Here are some school shooting incidents reported since 2000.
indianexpress.com

Is There a Link Between Mental Health and Mass Shootings?
"Approximately 5% of mass shootings are related to severe mental illness. And although a much larger number of mass shootings (about 25%) are associated with non-psychotic psychiatric or neurological illnesses, including depression, and an estimated 23% with substance use, in most cases these conditions are incidental."
www.columbiapsychiatry.org

Is There a Link Between Mental Health and Mass Shootings?

Findings from the Columbia database help dispel the myth that having a severe psychiatric illness is predictive of who will perpetrate mass murder.
www.columbiapsychiatry.org www.columbiapsychiatry.org

BBM
 
I think Crumbley did the best thing in taking this plea -- and I think his attorney probably helped him get to that plea.

What E.C. did was beyond horrible, and think E.C. would agree. His actions will be with the families of the students he killed for the rest of their lives. In addition, everyone associated with what happened that day will never be the same.
Crumbley's parents, IMO, merely tolerated him; they gave him no grounding in his own self-worth; and they seemed to have very little time for and with him -- and he knew it.
No excuses for this troubled boy -- he could have simply skipped school that day and did pistol practice out in the woods somewhere with a wooden target. But that's not what he did. Maybe he had given up trying to please his parents -- he knew, IMO, that he was in their way and always would be. Again, no excuses.
I am, however, hoping that his parents will be found guilty of their part in this horror that will never go away for too, too many people who lost their own children, as well as the children who were hurt or simply witnessed this sad, sad day.
 
www.fox2detroit.com

Crumbley parents trial set for January as Ethan pleads guilty

James and Jennifer Crumbley will head to trial in January for their role in the Oxford High School shootings.
www.fox2detroit.com www.fox2detroit.com

According to the Oakland County Circuit Court, jury selection for the trial of James and Jennifer is set for Jan. 17 after the initial hearing was delayed due to motion hearings.
 
borndem said:
I think Crumbley did the best thing in taking this plea -- and I think his attorney probably helped him get to that plea.

What E.C. did was beyond horrible, and think E.C. would agree. His actions will be with the families of the students he killed for the rest of their lives. In addition, everyone associated with what happened that day will never be the same.
Crumbley's parents, IMO, merely tolerated him; they gave him no grounding in his own self-worth; and they seemed to have very little time for and with him -- and he knew it.
No excuses for this troubled boy -- he could have simply skipped school that day and did pistol practice out in the woods somewhere with a wooden target. But that's not what he did. Maybe he had given up trying to please his parents -- he knew, IMO, that he was in their way and always would be. Again, no excuses.
I am, however, hoping that his parents will be found guilty of their part in this horror that will never go away for too, too many people who lost their own children, as well as the children who were hurt or simply witnessed this sad, sad day.
Click to expand...
I agree & think this was the best outcome.

But EC is very young to be making decisions of such gravity.

I wonder if at some point he might feel his counsel was ineffective/coercive and raise an appeal?

I am sure research about brain immaturity before age 25 could be used to question this outcome.

IANAL, so this is just a question out of curiosity.

I can't see justification for EC ever being free again but what if the isolation he has been kept in to protect him from others in an adult facility can be shown to have affected his mental illness, perhaps to a degree that his youthful judgment was further compromised?

I don't want to play devil's advocate. But I hope there was due diligence regarding his ability to make a guilty plea decision in terms of psychological evaluation, etc.?

Am I way off base here? Interested in other's thoughts.

And remembering the innocent victims, dead, injured & simply present that day. They deserve all the justice the legal system can deliver.
 
www.mercurynews.com

Trial date set for parents of Michigan school shooter

A new trial date has been scheduled for the parents of Ethan Crumbley, who killed four students and wounded several others in a mass shooting at Oxford High School last year.
www.mercurynews.com www.mercurynews.com

The Crumbley parents are due back in court this Friday, Oct. 28 before Judge Cheryl Matthews who will hear arguments on the admissibility of witness testimony during their trial.
 
WingsOverTX said:
I agree & think this was the best outcome.

But EC is very young to be making decisions of such gravity.

I wonder if at some point he might feel his counsel was ineffective/coercive and raise an appeal?

I am sure research about brain immaturity before age 25 could be used to question this outcome.

IANAL, so this is just a question out of curiosity.

I can't see justification for EC ever being free again but what if the isolation he has been kept in to protect him from others in an adult facility can be shown to have affected his mental illness, perhaps to a degree that his youthful judgment was further compromised?

I don't want to play devil's advocate. But I hope there was due diligence regarding his ability to make a guilty plea decision in terms of psychological evaluation, etc.?

Am I way off base here? Interested in other's thoughts.

And remembering the innocent victims, dead, injured & simply present that day. They deserve all the justice the legal system can deliver.
Click to expand...
I hear you and think you have a real point for an appeal later. I’m hopeful that being away from his parent’s and being around adults that have shown genuine care and concern for him brought this out organically. He could have absolutely killed more people… and didn’t because he gave himself up really - so I feel like he was so lost and angry and confused and thought it would be a release and yet it wasn’t maybe? I really hope he is sincere in pleading guilty and remains sincere for the rest of his life.
 
WingsOverTX said:
I agree & think this was the best outcome.

But EC is very young to be making decisions of such gravity.

I wonder if at some point he might feel his counsel was ineffective/coercive and raise an appeal?

I am sure research about brain immaturity before age 25 could be used to question this outcome.

IANAL, so this is just a question out of curiosity.

I can't see justification for EC ever being free again but what if the isolation he has been kept in to protect him from others in an adult facility can be shown to have affected his mental illness, perhaps to a degree that his youthful judgment was further compromised?

I don't want to play devil's advocate. But I hope there was due diligence regarding his ability to make a guilty plea decision in terms of psychological evaluation, etc.?

Am I way off base here? Interested in other's thoughts.

And remembering the innocent victims, dead, injured & simply present that day. They deserve all the justice the legal system can deliver.
Click to expand...
In addition to his attorney/s, EC also has a court-appointed guardian ad litem. She sits beside him in the courtroom, and I'm sure that she has been involved in all of the discussions and decisions that have been made to arrive at the guilty plea. The court recognizes that EC is very young and vulnerable and that he requires adult counseling and guidance. JMO
 
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BetteDavisEyes said:
In addition to his attorney/s, EC also has a court-appointed guardian ad litem. She sits beside him in the courtroom, and I'm sure that she has been involved in all of the discussions and decisions that have been made to arrive at the guilty plea. The court recognizes that EC is very young and vulnerable and that he requires adult counseling and guidance. JMO
Click to expand...
Oh, you mean like what parents do.

JMO
 
I meant to include this article with my post about EC's guardian ad litem, but it was too late to edit.


The court has appointed a guardian for accused Oxford High School shooter Ethan Crumbley, a move experts say is important to both protect a defendant's rights and to make sure someone can be held responsible for their actions when being tried as an adult, as Crumbley is.

District Judge Nancy Carniak appointed Deborah McKelvy to be Crumbley's guardian on Friday, according to the 52/3 District Court in Oakland County. Reached by phone by The Detroit News on Monday, she said she was not commenting on the case. But she spoke Monday during a brief hearing for Crumbley.

She advocated for Crumbley to be moved from the Oakland County Jail to a facility for other youth. He could hear adult inmates, she said, which is a violation of laws that require that those younger than age 18 be kept out of sight and sound of adult prisoners when in detention...
 
I doubt competence to plead guilty will ever be an issue. If he is currently incompetent to plead guilty, he would also be incompetent to face a trial.

Even if he later appeals his sentence, the evidence that he killed people is overwhelming and chances of acquittal are negligible.

I suspect he simply didn't want to sit through weeks of a trial while being vilified.
 
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