GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #4

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The teen who killed four people at Oxford High School on Nov. 30, 2021 was sentenced to life in prison without the chance of parole Friday.

After a wrenching day of emotional statements from victims touched by the Nov. 30, 2021 Oxford High School shooting, the shooter told an Oakland County judge he has done terrible things that no one should ever do and was sorry for the attack that killed four people.

"Any sentence that they ask for, I ask that you impose it on me," Ethan Crumbley said at the end of his sentencing hearing Friday. "I want them to be happy, I want them to feel secure and safe. I don’t want them to worry another day."

He did not react when Rowe delivered his sentence, besides looking at the judge once before returning his gaze to the floor...
 
@cathyrusson

"I am a really bad person. I have done terrible things.." Oxford High School shooter #EthanCrumbley speaks at his sentencing. He asks the judge to impose any sentence that the victim families want.

3:56 PM · Dec 8, 2023




BREAKING: Judge sentences Oxford High School shooter #EthanCrumbley to life without parole. Crumbley killed Hana St. Juliana, Justin Shillin, Tate Myre and Madisyn Baldwin plus wounding many others.


4:03 PM · Dec 8, 2023

He is right: he is a bad person and what he did was totally evil. LWOP IMO is the correct sentence.
 
"Any sentence that they ask for, I ask that you impose it on me," Ethan Crumbley said at the end of his sentencing hearing Friday. "I want them to be happy, I want them to feel secure and safe. I don’t want them to worry another day."

Very interesting. That is a lot more remorse than most show. Though the way he words things, "I want them to feel happy" feels like he doesn't really get it.

ETA: Also when you consider all of his actions and the impact, is it really remorse for others or just for himself, not wanting to face it?

Warning: Heartbreaking impact statements.
 
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Very interesting. That is a lot more remorse than most show. Though the way he words things, "I want them to feel happy" feels like he doesn't really get it.

ETA: Also when you consider all of his actions and the impact, is it really remorse for others or just for himself, not wanting to face it?

Warning: Heartbreaking impact statements.
Yes, I thought
Very interesting. That is a lot more remorse than most show. Though the way he words things, "I want them to feel happy" feels like he doesn't really get it.

ETA: Also when you consider all of his actions and the impact, is it really remorse for others or just for himself, not wanting to face it?

Warning: Heartbreaking impact statements.
His saying " I want them to feel happy:"- is really a bizarre statement and does not reflect remorse to my way of thinking. If he would have said " I am so sorry- I know words cannot change what I did, but I hope they somehow find peace"- that would have showed perhaps some level of remorse: Saying " I want them to feel happy"-- is very strange.
 
Yes, I thought

His saying " I want them to feel happy:"- is really a bizarre statement and does not reflect remorse to my way of thinking. If he would have said " I am so sorry- I know words cannot change what I did, but I hope they somehow find peace"- that would have showed perhaps some level of remorse: Saying " I want them to feel happy"-- is very strange.
I think that Ethan is using the context of wanting the families to be happy strictly regarding
the sentence he gets. If they are happy with LWOP then he is fine with it.
 
I thought this case would put schools on notice too, in how they handle those kids that have or may have mental issues. And also that the school/school employees would definitely be prosecuted specifically those who had the authority/capability to address EC and his issues.

I'm not sure if I think they should be penalized but there is a responsibility to protect all students in those jobs. The student having problems and all the rest. So there should be some type of close examination of what they may have done wrong or that they did the best they could. And I do feel sorry for them (all the adults there) too - the students are not the only ones who suffered trauma that day, and after.
This is why I can't talk anyone into going into teaching; this is why people don't want to be teachers (about half quit pretty quickly).

If my responsibility now extends into mental health (and not just teaching - actually teaching English and math and history and social science and music and the arts - is the job we were hired for), I'm out of it.

And every teacher I know is balancing this. Retire now? Quit now? But we are NOT mental health professionals. Neither are LE.

I am very sure that teachers should not have to be experts on mental health in order to avoid personal liability. And that's where we are. Lack of education makes mental health issues worse, I am convinced. Blaming teachers for not being therapists, well, I have a bias. Many, many teachers are not capable of sussing and figuring out mental states. Indeed, it would be another issue (should people on the spectrum be allowed to teach? Many are very good teachers and really, really know their subjects)? But they are not necessarily able (no more than the average person) to conclude who is mentally ill.

So teachers don't last; new teachers have no context; we older teachers are retiring. Good luck with education in a system that does this (I strongly urge people to look at the history of education, its peak, its decline - especially in the many European nations, each of which have different experiments running).

As a teacher, with large counseling staff available (unlike high schools), I can't imagine trying to task teachers with noticing mental health issues. I could write a book on the this - and no conclusions could be drawn. I started teaching 46 years ago. AND I have an interest in mental health.

IMO.
 
I think that Ethan is using the context of wanting the families to be happy strictly regarding
the sentence he gets. If they are happy with LWOP then he is fine with it.

You are (to me) the spirit of where justice lies. Families need to be...okay...with the sentence, and for a defendant to hope the families are happy shows so much about his...mind. It's not all mental illness. Or at least, we have no evidence that non-mentally ill people don't wish simila things.

I'm not feeling sorry for Ethan, but I do think that everyone needs to realize there are Ethans out there - and that the only people who are even remotely able to understand what's going on are family members and geneticists (when given the proper information).

I don't know the solution. But if a sentence to prison doesn't constitute justice, what do we do instead?
 
You are (to me) the spirit of where justice lies. Families need to be...okay...with the sentence, and for a defendant to hope the families are happy shows so much about his...mind. It's not all mental illness. Or at least, we have no evidence that non-mentally ill people don't wish simila things.

I'm not feeling sorry for Ethan, but I do think that everyone needs to realize there are Ethans out there - and that the only people who are even remotely able to understand what's going on are family members and geneticists (when given the proper information).

I don't know the solution. But if a sentence to prison doesn't constitute justice, what do we do instead?

Son of Sam Laws. Stop convicts inside and outside of prison from making money off their notoriety. Have money and help available to victims. Keep close family in the loop on investigations. Steve Goncalves comes to mind, he felt the need to hire a PI.

Give victim's families Pro bono attorneys. Defendants get free attorneys and victims should as well.

This is just the tip of the ice berg.
 
Can someone explain his parents’ part in what he did ? I’m not sure I know the entire story.

In announcing the charges Friday, Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald laid out a disturbing timeline in explaining why James and Jennifer Crumbley were charged in the shooting deaths.

“I want to be really clear that these charges are intended to hold the individuals who contributed to this tragedy accountable,” McDonald said, “and also send a message that gun owners have a responsibility.”


Jennifer and James Crumbley are accused of making the gun accessible and failing to recognize warning signs.

PHOTO: James Crumbley, left, and Jennifer Crumbley are seen in photos provided by the Oakland County Sheriff's Office.

James Crumbley, left, and Jennifer Crumbley are seen in photos provided by the Oakland County Sheriff's Office.

In a written opinion, Judge Christopher Murray said Jennifer and James Crumbley's "actions and inactions were inexorably intertwined with" their son's actions.

The parents "were actively involved" in their son's "mental state remaining untreated," Murray said. The parents also "provided him with the weapon he used to kill the victims" and "refused to remove him from the situation that led directly to the shootings," Murray wrote.

In a concurring opinion, Judge Michael Riordan wrote that although parents typically cannot be held liable for a child’s crime, Jennifer and James Crumbley were aware of “visual evidence…that [Ethan Crumbley] was contemplating the act of gunshot wounds being inflicted upon someone.”
 
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This is so touching - to me. This person is clearly mentally ill (and the treatment is working - so now he has terrible guilt about what he did).

I wish I didn't see other cases of parents preventing treatment, but I do. I wish there was somehow a different way of holding parents accountable - don't expect it in my lifetime, though.

Son of Sam Laws. Stop convicts inside and outside of prison from making money off their notoriety. Have money and help available to victims. Keep close family in the loop on investigations. Steve Goncalves comes to mind, he felt the need to hire a PI.

Give victim's families Pro bono attorneys. Defendants get free attorneys and victims should as well.

This is just the tip of the ice berg.

Well said. Very complex, of course. It would be an amazing and marvelous thing if victims' families got attorneys pro bono.
 
This person is clearly mentally ill

May I ask in what way it seems obvious? His defense didn't even make this claim.

It's murky waters to me, this phenomenon some people have of obsession with violence and acting it out. Regarding what that is -- Is it mental illness or rather a personality disorder? If EC had MI, why wasn't it part of his defense?
 
May I ask in what way it seems obvious? His defense didn't even make this claim.

It's murky waters to me, this phenomenon some people have of obsession with violence and acting it out. Regarding what that is -- Is it mental illness or rather a personality disorder? If EC had MI, why wasn't it part of his defense?
I believe many people are more comfortable believing someone who does something horrendous like murder, or committing mass murder, is mentally ill, versus that person is just evil, and/or has a personality disorder. We know, because some of the murderers have admitted, that they killed for the thrill, to see "what it feels like" to take a human life. Of course some murderers are mentally ill, but surely not all of them.
 
I do not believe or trust (for public safety reasons) Ethan's statements. I do not believe his self awareness to the level of rehabilitation to be a productively safe member of the free world. I do not believe him. MOO IMO
 
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