GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #4

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texaslb218 said:
I do not believe or trust (for public safety reasons) Ethan's statements. I do not believe his self awareness to the level of rehabilitation to be a productively safe member of the free world. I do not believe him. MOO IMO
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Ditto!!!
 
ChatteringBirds said:
May I ask in what way it seems obvious? His defense didn't even make this claim.

It's murky waters to me, this phenomenon some people have of obsession with violence and acting it out. Regarding what that is -- Is it mental illness or rather a personality disorder? If EC had MI, why wasn't it part of his defense?
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In many states, there's no reason to bring mental health into the case unless there's the possibility of an insanity defense. Some of the major personality disorders are due to brain issues/genetics. Let me just say that the parents appear to be in a category where psychiatrists and psychologists cannot completely agree on what to call it (DSM has one set of criteria and one label; the actual research on the psychological and neurological/brain issues use different language - language including words like "sociopath.")

This murderer shows the signs of sociopathy - and even the classic "flight to health" when caught. The first line of treatment for such people is consequences. His apparent acceptance of the consequences is also classic for a sociopath. They know when to fold their cards. He will remain a sociopath in prison, IMO, but he'll be amongst his own kind - for many people in prison are sociopaths.

It's my view and the view of many psychiatric researchers that such persons are not randomly created. They have underlying brain issues, and it runs in families (as we see here, IMO). DSM calls it "Antisocial PD," but I don't know anyone in the psychiatric professions who believes that there's not a biological/brain basis to it as well (via brain analysis, such as S.P.E.C.T. or PCL-R analysis).

Here's one article about the re-emergency of the term "sociopathy" and its cousin term, "psychopathy." It focuses immediately on the brain differences between sociopaths and normals, you don't have to read too far - and since it was published, even more differences have been found.

The debate has gotten clearer in the past 10 years (more agreement over the use of those two terms - both of which are mental illnesses IMO - but of course everyone is free to view it some other way). Sociopathy and psychopathy are not normal brain states. Having abnormal brain structures such as a deformed amygdala is, by definition, an illness in medicine (IMO). The article doesn't go into the genetics, but there are hundreds, if not thousands, of academic articles on that topic as well.

Many criminally minded people do not want to use an insanity defense (many reasons, but one is that some prefer prison to hospitals for the mentally ill - and having worked in both places, I get why they are of that viewpoint). But one other big reason is that the legal definition of insanity has nothing to do or little to do with the medical definition - which is what I'm talking about. It's unlikely that this defendant would meet the legal standard for insanity in most states. Merely having a mental illness is not the same thing as being criminally insane.

IMO.
 
Cool Cats said:
Son of Sam Laws. Stop convicts inside and outside of prison from making money off their notoriety. Have money and help available to victims. Keep close family in the loop on investigations. Steve Goncalves comes to mind, he felt the need to hire a PI.

Give victim's families Pro bono attorneys. Defendants get free attorneys and victims should as well.

This is just the tip of the ice berg.
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Super strong gun laws, including parental responsibility. His parents deserve Lwop too I M O.
 
DFWNF said:
His parents deserve Lwop too I M O.
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I also think parents who allow their minor children access to a gun should be held equally responsible if the child/teen uses it. It's not a popular opinion, probably, but I struggle to see why they shouldn't be held responsible.

Then add to that that these parents knew their son was unhappy (to say the least) and it just seems so unimaginable to give him this access, IMO.
 
ChatteringBirds said:
I also think parents who allow their minor children access to a gun should be held equally responsible if the child/teen uses it. It's not a popular opinion, probably, but I struggle to see why they shouldn't be held responsible.

Then add to that that these parents knew their son was unhappy (to say the least) and it just seems so unimaginable to give him this access, IMO.
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I can't shake the thought that they expected him to use it. Just never dreamed he'd turn it outward.

These are some seriously detached parents.

JMO
 
ChatteringBirds said:
I also think parents who allow their minor children access to a gun should be held equally responsible if the child/teen uses it. It's not a popular opinion, probably, but I struggle to see why they shouldn't be held responsible.

Then add to that that these parents knew their son was unhappy (to say the least) and it just seems so unimaginable to give him this access, IMO.
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Perhaps the tide is turning.

OT/Related: Detroit 5-year-old is Michigan's latest child death from unsecured gun this year
...Both parents were in custody and charges were pending with the Wayne County Prosecutor's Office, Craig said. Child Protective Services also is involved...
 
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www.clickondetroit.com

Court agrees to exclude ‘bird evidence’ from trials of Oxford shooter’s parents

A judge has granted a request from the parents of the Oxford shooter, allowing certain evidence to be excluded from their upcoming trials.
www.clickondetroit.com www.clickondetroit.com
OXFORD, Mich. – A judge has granted a request from the parents of the Oxford High School shooter, allowing certain evidence related to the shooter to be excluded from their upcoming trials.

The Oxford shooter’s parents are expected to stand trial starting in January on four involuntary manslaughter charges stemming from the four high school students murdered by their son on Nov. 30, 2021. Both parents were charged separately and will now have separate trials.

Before requesting their trials be separate, lawyers for the parents asked Oakland County Circuit Judge Cheryl Matthews to exclude some evidence from trial to prevent unnecessary prejudice among the jury and ensure a fair trial. Judge Matthews partly approved their requests, deciding that the following evidence may not be used in the parents’ trials: The parents’ infidelity; content from the shooter’s additional Instagram accounts; the messiness of their home, and the fact that alcohol and marijuana were present there; the shooter’s internet searches; and the shooter’s Nazi coin.

Much of the evidence barred from trial was excluded because of their relevancy, or lack thereof, or because it’s believed the parents had no knowledge of certain things, such as the shooter’s multiple social media accounts. There was one piece of evidence, however, that the judge did not rule on at the time that is being revisited...
 
www.clickondetroit.com

Where Oxford High School shooter is now; plans, details about future lodging

Officials have released details about the Oxford High School shooter’s incarceration, including where he is now and the plans for him in the future.
www.clickondetroit.com www.clickondetroit.com
LAPEER, Mich. – Officials have released details about the Oxford High School shooter’s incarceration, including where he is now and the plans for him in the future.

The shooter was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. He pleaded guilty to 24 felony charges after killing four students and injuring seven other people inside the high school on Nov. 30, 2021.

A spokesperson for the Michigan Department of Corrections said the shooter is currently being held at the Thumb Correctional Facility in Lapeer.

Since he’s a minor, the shooter will remain at the Thumb Correctional Facility until he turns 18. He will then be moved to a permanent facility.

As of Tuesday, the shooter is in the middle of the intake process, which takes several days...
 
www.detroitnews.com

Oxford district vows to strengthen emergency response plan after Guidepost report

The Michigan school district also pledges to continue to 'review and improve' threat assessment policies, practices and protocols.
www.detroitnews.com
A vow to update, strengthen and refine its emergency operations plan annually is among a list of promises made by Oxford Community Schools in its first published response to an independent investigation into the 2021 deadly attack at its high school.

The Michigan school district has also pledged to continue to "review and improve" its threat assessment policies, practices and protocols, according to a 56-page document it released late Tuesday.

The document is the district's official response to an independent investigation by Guidepost Solutions into the Nov. 30, 2021, mass shooting that killed four students and injured seven others...
 
ChatteringBirds said:
I also think parents who allow their minor children access to a gun should be held equally responsible if the child/teen uses it. It's not a popular opinion, probably, but I struggle to see why they shouldn't be held responsible.

Then add to that that these parents knew their son was unhappy (to say the least) and it just seems so unimaginable to give him this access, IMO.
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OT/Related: The parents of the 5-year-old who fatally shot himself have been charged with manslaughter. I posted about the case previously in response to your post about parents being held accountable when their children use a weapon that is not properly stored. Perhaps the Crumbley case will set a precedent, and, in the future, parents will be held accountable when they don't properly store weapons to which their children gain access and cause harm.
www.detroitnews.com

Detroit parents charged with involuntary manslaughter in son's accidental shooting death

Two Detroit parents have been charged in connection with the fatal shooting of their 5-year-old son.
www.detroitnews.com
 
ilovewings said:
Thought you might be interested to read this author's opinion of the sentencing hearing --- Her opinion made me angry - she basically criticized family members for saying "cruel" things to the person who cruelly took their loved ones off the face of the earth.
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Just finished reading the editorial. Victims have every right to confront the perpetrator. Author is way off base. The cowardly shooter couldn't even look at the people whose lives he damaged forever. JMO
 
BetteDavisEyes said:
Just finished reading the editorial. Victims have every right to confront the perpetrator. Author is way off base. The cowardly shooter couldn't even look at the people whose lives he damaged forever. JMO
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I sent her an e-mail telling her what I thought of her thoughtless article. I couldn't help myself LOL- I was appalled- really disgusted with what she wrote- so inappropriate.
 
ilovewings said:
II sent her an e-mail telling her what I thought of her thoughtless article. I couldn't help myself LOL- I was appalled- really disgusted with what she wrote- so inappropriate.
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I would love to hear if she responds to you. I agree with your opinion of her callous thoughts.
 
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