GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5

[marypretzels]

They may have wanted cash so if they decided to keep going and not surrender then there would be no electronic financial trail of their location.

Perhaps, they were originally planning to head for Canada since they were caught about five minutes from the border with Windsor, Ontario.

 

[wyome]

Thinking about the question from Smith and JC's answer could it have been set up?

Had JC said she would have done blah,blah differently it would have set her up admitting that there was an issue(s) with EC that needed at the very least a mental evaluation and she ignored it,
Does that make any sense?

I think it was absolutely a set up. In my mind, that is a no win question and should not have been asked by her own attorney.

JC's got to walk a fine line. She's got to talk about SOME concern for her son, because she can't look like she had NO care for him or the jurors will surely see her as negligent.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Do you think she actually thinks she did well enough as a mother and wouldn't have changed tons of things about her parenting, if she could go back in time?

 

[BrownRice]

I see her turning bright red,putting her hands over her face and sobbing then throwing her head on her knees.

JC just lied, she said "I've never been charged" meaning charged before this arrest.
Smith then had her correct the claim and JC said "I've never been charged like this before".

I caught that. What was the previous charge?

 

[BrownRice]

FOUR Xanax apiece? For SLEEPING? Yikes.

That’s crazy. But I guess if you find yourself in that situation, you’d have difficulty sleeping

 

[Izzylizzy]

That might be an issue for him until the end of time.

Also, in my experience, sometimes it can be an obsession to re-visit scenarios you've lived through. Here's a benign example: I almost drowned as a kid. I am scared to death of the ocean. Now, I compulsively watch competitive surfing. The waves are terrifying. I LOVE watching surfing.

Murderers often re-visit murder scenes. Many people who have suffered violent events go over and over them (this is a symptom of PTSD) in their heads.

While it's true Ethan might have had a history of killing animals (one that we know of?), it seems to me obsessions and compulsions, and the drive to re-visit bad experiences, are VERY complicated, and not available to just one interpretation.

Thank you for your input.
It was certainly naive of me thinking that after he massacred innocents,has been incarcerated for almost 2 yrs and looking at a life sentence w/o parole that reliving what brought him to this point would be all the deterrent needed.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I caught that. What was the previous charge?

iirc:
DUI and passing bad checks

 

[Izzylizzy]

If anyone wants to have a re-look at JC's testimony yesterday.

 

[Cool Cats]

Do you think she actually thinks she did well enough as a mother and wouldn't have changed tons of things about her parenting, if she could go back in time?

2 Versions

Jennifer Crumbley criticized her own parenting ability according to messages she sent, revealed in court Wednesday.

“I failed as a parent. I failed miserably,” she wrote.

Mother of school shooter: ‘I failed as a parent’

Prosecutors have accused her of gross negligence for disregarding the risks when she and her husband bought their son a gun four days before the shooting, even though he was struggling with his men…

www.mercurynews.com

In court:

Jennifer Crumbley, the mother of teenage school shooter Ethan Crumbley, testified Thursday that while "I don't think I'm a failure as a parent" and "wouldn't have" done anything differently in how she parented her son, she regrets what he did.

 

[wyome]

Does anyone know why the police did not cease the other guns during the search of the Crumbley home? I mean they handcuffed them and detained them for a period, and were obviously treating them suspiciously based on the fact that they refused to speak with them at the station. Even if they weren't considering prosecution of the parents at that point, their family member just committed multiple killings. Wouldn't it be protocol to take all weapons into custody until the investigation is complete?

 

[BrownRice]

I think I caught most of JCs testimony on YouTube last night. I was surprised the prosecution didn’t put a hard stop to the way too long look back of the Crumbley’s idyllic life prior to the shooting. The family holidays, the family outings, restoration of their lovely home etc. such a beautiful life and family. (Sarcasm). Enough already.

I kept thinking of the victims’ families and wondered how in the heck they didn’t jump out of their seats. So insulting.

I keep thinking this is just bad, selfish parenting (there’s so many kids raised to basically fend for themselves with no care or concern by their parents), but is it illegal or criminal? Probably not, just crappy. But it’s the purchase of the gun…..Even tho the dad bought it, she didn’t say no. Even though she hadn’t seen the depth of his journals (supposedly anyway), she knew on the day of the shooting he was exhibiting violent thoughts (at a minimum) and had a responsibility to do something (tell school, take him to a MH professional, report to police?). But are you required by law to do this?

 

[IAMWAN]

Does anyone know why the police did not cease the other guns during the search of the Crumbley home? I mean they handcuffed them and detained them for a period, and were obviously treating them suspiciously based on the fact that they refused to speak with them at the station. Even if they weren't considering prosecution of the parents at that point, their family member just committed multiple killings. Wouldn't it be protocol to take all weapons into custody until the investigation is complete?

I'm pretty sure they did. IIRC, earlier in the trial one of the witnesses showed all 3 weapons and their cases and discussed how they were stored/discovered during the search. I think it was ATF Special Agent Brett Brandon. (edited by me to include witness name)

 

[wyome]

I'm pretty sure they did. IIRC, earlier in the trial one of the witnesses displayed all 3 weapons.

Then do you know why LE was so concerned that they were armed? I guess they could assume they'd secure one off the black market, but seriously that sounds like a stretch.

 

[Weki]

Shannon Smith is reminiscent of Jennifer Wilmott (Jodi Arias’ attorney) down to their sense of style. The colorful matchy matchy suits everyday. Just like in the Arias trial, there’s a soft spoken and weak judge here as well. Wilmott also whined a lot and had a contentious relationship with Juan Martinez. Just like Smith and Keast.

Apparently, the reason for all these arguments between counsel in front of the jury is because the courtroom is too small and there’s nowhere to have sidebars out of the jury’s earshot. But the judge can still instruct them not to make speaking objections. But she doesn’t want to be a “meany” and just rule so she allows these long arguments that are so inappropriate imo in front of the jury. Smith has used that to her advantage and tried to make the state look like the big bad wolf. And instead of recognizing this and objecting to the judge/asking her to admonish Smith to stop arguing in front of the jury, the state has decided to go with a “when they go low, we go lower” approach and use the same tactic in return. But as LYK helpfully pointed out on his show last night, if JC gets convicted, the defense can make an appeal cake out of those inappropriate arguments made by the state in front of the jury and say it prejudiced this or that.

JMO

 

[BrownRice]

iirc:
DUI and passing bad checks

Haha. I think I missed that during the replay of her perfect life story.

 

[cottonweaver]

I think I caught most of JCs testimony on YouTube last night. I was surprised the prosecution didn’t put a hard stop to the way too long look back of the Crumbley’s idyllic life prior to the shooting. The family holidays, the family outings, restoration of their lovely home etc. such a beautiful life and family. (Sarcasm). Enough already.

I kept thinking of the victims’ families and wondered how in the heck they didn’t jump out of their seats. So insulting.

I keep thinking this is just bad, selfish parenting (there’s so many kids raised to basically fend for themselves with no care or concern by their parents), but is it illegal or criminal? Probably not, just crappy. But it’s the purchase of the gun…..Even tho the dad bought it, she didn’t say no. Even though she hadn’t seen the depth of his journals (supposedly anyway), she knew on the day of the shooting he was exhibiting violent thoughts (at a minimum) and had a responsibility to do something (tell school, take him to a MH professional, report to police?). But are you required by law to do this?

Not sure that you are required by law to get help per se but knowing what you know, you wouldn't go on to leave an unsecured gun available to him. Not when the risks are foreseeable to a reasonable person and the law says you can be prosecuted for gross negligence manslaughter for facilitating it.

Since the murders, MI changed it's laws on safe storage wrt minors but parents have been prosecuted with this charge before ( Gun crime - involuntary manslaughter) The novelty here, AFAIK, is that this is the first time the charge has been used in a case of a school shooter.

TBH I find it easier to remove the gun and shooting and consider another analogy. Anything. Perhaps a vehicle. For example, I leave my rambunctious infant in the passenger seat while I pop out to the store. I know he loves driving his toy cars in the yard and I left the key in the ignition and the handbrake is also not great. I also parked on a hill and it's a busy pedestrian road. Ten minutes later I return to my car and ........... am I grossly negligent? You bet I am.

 

[Weki]

So JC threw her attorney under the bus by blaming her for why she didn’t turn herself in and the judge is clearly annoyed at having to deal with the state’s argument at this point in the trial. State wants the judge to review the atty-client communication between JC and Smith and determine if it is relevant to the flight issue. Then they will argue as to whether it can come in and priv has been waived. Phew! Judge is understandably nervous about wading into these waters.

JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

Live feed for Day 7

 

[BrownRice]

Not sure that you are required by law to get help per se but knowing what you know, you wouldn't go on to leave an unsecured gun available to him. Not when the risks are foreseeable to a reasonable person and the law says you can be prosecuted for gross negligence manslaughter for facilitating it.

Since the murders, MI changed it's laws on safe storage wrt minors but parents have been prosecuted with this charge before ( Gun crime - involuntary manslaughter) The novelty here, AFAIK, is that this is the first time the charge has been used in a case of a school shooter.

Great post. So basically this is in the same realm of a parent who leaves a gun available for their toddler who then shoots their siblings, etc.

 

[cottonweaver]

Great post. So basically this is in the same realm of a parent who leaves a gun available for their toddler who then shoots their siblings, etc.

You read my mind. I'd actually just posted an edit to the original post mentioning an infant.