GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5

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Weki said:
Cross exam was underwhelming. The state showed she’s a self-absorbed and negligent parent. He also touched on what happened the night before the shooting but left it hanging. EC made a video on his phone saying what he was going to do the next day. State alleged they locked him out of the house but she denied that was true. She said his gun was taken away and then denied it when he came back to that a couple minutes later. She admitted he was distraught that evening. What happened the night before the shooting? The state buried the lede. It seemed like her saying they took his gun away was monumental. Because why would they if they weren’t concerned about him hurting himself or others???? They clearly didn’t take his phone away. They locked him out and took his gun away because he was acting out of control maybe? I wish state had asked her answer be played back when she DID say they took his gun away. I’m sure he will argue that in closing!

JMO
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YES! I was hoping the state would ask for her answer to be read back. I was so surprised he let that go when she back tracked about the gun being taken away. When the state said he was finished I was also surprised. I thought he could have finished stronger.

Moo/Moo
 
Weki said:
Cross exam was underwhelming. The state showed she’s a self-absorbed and negligent parent. He also touched on what happened the night before the shooting but left it hanging. EC made a video on his phone saying what he was going to do the next day. State alleged they locked him out of the house but she denied that was true. She said his gun was taken away and then denied it when he came back to that a couple minutes later. She admitted he was distraught that evening. What happened the night before the shooting? The state buried the lede. It seemed like her saying they took his gun away was monumental. Because why would they if they weren’t concerned about him hurting himself or others???? They clearly didn’t take his phone away. They locked him out and took his gun away because he was acting out of control maybe? I wish state had asked her answer be played back when she DID say they took his gun away. I’m sure he will argue that in closing!

JMO
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I agree. The state's cross was pitiful.
It doesn't help that I've heard numerous times today alone where the judge seems to want to hurry everyone because the jury's been there for two weeks. This is someone's life we're talking about. If it takes a month, it takes a month.
 
redirect

JC claims that her husband was using that phone to contact Shannon! Even though it was her burner phone. SMH


btw JC claims her parents are both teachers right now. Not retired already?How old are they?

Jury leaves. prosecutor McDonald notes that Shannon had said yesterday evening that she was going to call two witnesses and didn't tell State that she wasn't.
Shannon says that the witnesses would've been her parents and would've been short anyways

BTW
Yesterday, Smith was asked whether she'd have more witnesses and she said it all depended on child care.
So.... the two grandparents, are both working teachers who had child care issues today? Huh?
 
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wyome said:
I agree. The state's cross was pitiful.
It doesn't help that I've heard numerous times today alone where the judge seems to want to hurry everyone because the jury's been there for two weeks. This is someone's life we're talking about. If it takes a month, it takes a month.
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The state spent less time on the cross than was spent on the delay earlier this morning.

Ridiculous!

Imagine how the families also feel. They will be watching. Four killed and seven injured - 3 critically
 
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Weki said:
Good catch @wyome - if the gun was only given to him to use in the shooting range as she testified why would it need to be taken away from him the night before the shooting? She slipped up!! And then a bald face denial! I hope jury caught it. She also threw her husband under the bus about the texts to the lawyer prior to their arrest. It was her burner phone but he was using it according to her. She’s slippery!

JMO
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Yesterday:

"The night before, Jennifer Crumbley and her son had gotten into an argument because he had an “E” in geometry. They took his phone away and said he couldn’t go to the shooting range until his grades improved." (from here:

Then today:

“I don’t know if he got it back,” Jennifer Crumbley said. “I know we took the shooting range away and we took his gun away, so I don’t know if he got it back.”

Keast began to ask another question, but then said, “Actually I want to go back to what you just said. ‘You took his gun away.’”

“We took the shooting range away,” Jennifer Crumbley said.

“You said you took his gun away,” Keast said.

(From here:Live updates: Day 7 of trial for mother of Oxford High School shooter (Feb. 2))
 
The contentious back and forth between the state and Atty Smith is really irritating to me. I wish the state didn’t get so easily rattled by Smith’s provocation. To me it demonstrates the state’s insecurity about their case. JMO
 
Izzylizzy said:
Thank you for your input.
It was certainly naive of me thinking that after he massacred innocents,has been incarcerated for almost 2 yrs and looking at a life sentence w/o parole that reliving what brought him to this point would be all the deterrent needed.
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I wasn’t thinking about deterrent factors. I was just remarking that humans in general can compulsively try to re-experience violent or traumatic situations. We see that all the time on WS, and it’s not just a perp thing. Consider how many posters on WS get really into child fatality-abuse trials, perhaps as a result of terrible childhood experiences themselves. Some posters stay away from those cases for the same reason (i.e. they had abusive childhoods), but some re-visit and re-visit and re-visit. IMO both of these tendencies are human responses to terrible situations.

IMO we can’t land on “he was obsessed with violent content, which is a clear sign he’s a sicko” and have no room for understanding, otherwise we’d be indicting some of our posters here. For Ethan, I’m saying, the crime is the problem, not the compulsion to re-visit the content of that time in his life.

Ethan also grew up with a lot of visual violence, including evidently shared with parents. Perhaps for him this was the context in which he felt the most cared for by them? It was his “comfort food”.

So, for me, a compulsion to watch violent images gets complicated. I am not at all minimizing the crime. Nor do I think Ethan should be watching violent images. But I have scope for empathizing how he got there.
 
I’m starting to wonder if EC wasn’t just flaming mad at his parents lack of love/neglect and did this crime to punish them. I can see a teenage mind going there. He didn’t appreciate them trying to discipline him or getting mad at him for his performance in school when they were so detached from him otherwise. It’s like the spouse that kills the children to get back at the ex. JMO
 
cottonweaver said:
redirect

JC claims that her husband was using that phone to contact Shannon! Even though it was her burner phone. SMH


btw JC claims her parents are both teachers right now. Not retired already?How old are they?

Jury leaves. prosecutor McDonald notes that Shannon had said yesterday evening that she was going to call two witnesses and didn't tell State that she wasn't.
Shannon says that the witnesses would've been her parents and would've been short anyways
Click to expand...
BBM
Right?! Both of my parents were teachers -- well, my mom was a first-grade teacher, my dad was a guidance counselor and also taught a few history classes here and there. I'm 42 (3 years younger than JC) and my parents have been retired for more than 10 years now.
 
dbm someone beat me to the punch ^^^^!
 
cujenn81 said:
BBM
Right?! Both of my parents were teachers -- well, my mom was a first-grade teacher, my dad was a guidance counselor and also taught a few history classes here and there. I'm 42 (3 years younger than JC) and my parents have been retired for more than 10 years now.
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also

Yesterday, Smith was asked whether she'd have more witnesses and she said it all depended on child care.
Today Smith added that the 2 witnesses who she'd considered calling were J's parents
So.... the two grandparents, are both working teachers who might have had child care issues today? Huh?
 
wyome said:
I wish the prosecutor would have spent more time on the night prior to the shooting and the fight. And she DID say they took away the gun, implying very strongly that EC had free access to it. She denied it later, but the prosecutor delayed pouncing on that immediately after she said it. These imo were missed opportunities.
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Hopefully McDonald and/or their staff caught it and Kaest revisits both,
 
cottonweaver said:
also

Yesterday, Smith was asked whether she'd have more witnesses and she said it all depended on child care.
Today Smith added that the 2 witnesses who she'd considered calling were J's parents
So.... the two grandparents, are both working teachers who might have had child care issues today? Huh?
Click to expand...
Didn't Smith say there was one witness they were considering calling today, but she and her client aren't in agreement about it yet, so it was still up in the air? Maybe that was the particular witness with child care issues?

The two parents are an interesting choice. JC texted (her boyfriend I think) that her mom blames her. Not sure I'd want her on the witness list for that reason alone. Maybe they had them on standby in case the prosecution destroyed her on the stand, and when they softballed it, she was happy to rest. She was almost giddy about resting.
 
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