GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #6

[DFWNF]

I agree. The investigation already shows that too. ( Board and Superintendant's wouldn't even speak to the school investigators.)
There is plenty of negligence to go around.

Anyway, I can imagine JC also suing the school, if at any stage down the line she is released because the state doesn't retry. Laughing all the way to the bank, as the saying goes.
Would she fill EC - or James's - commissary in the future? I'm not sure

I hope that will not be allowed. Geez, your kid, your responsibility.

 

[KMouse]

I do believe JC, if found not guilty, will visit her son, and yes probably between a glass partition.
I kind of hope that for them.

I don't know what to think. EC no matter his crime and the horrible things he did and wrote about in his journal likely needs maternal support but I don't know if JC even knows what that looks like.

 

[KMouse]

I agree. The investigation already shows that too. ( Board and Superintendant's wouldn't even speak to the school investigators.)
There is plenty of negligence to go around.

Anyway, I can imagine JC also suing the school, if at any stage down the line she is released because the state doesn't retry. Laughing all the way to the bank, as the saying goes.
Would she fill EC - or James's - commissary in the future? Possibly, I'm not sure.

What would JC sue the school for? Not searching her son's bag?

 

[abeaman02]

If JC is found not guilty how do you think visits with EC would work? Under glass at the jail like normal? I guess he would be able to call her and she would be able to write to him.

Just my opinion I do not believe she would ever visit him. I think she will disappear.

 

[Weki]

If JC is found Not Guilty or jury hangs and she’s not retried I predict she abandons her son and moves out of Michigan to start over somewhere else. Likely, will divorce James as well. By all accounts their marriage was rocky at best. JMO

 

[wyome]

I don't know what to think. EC no matter his crime and the horrible things he did and wrote about in his journal likely needs maternal support but I don't know if JC even knows what that looks like.

I don't think I would ever give two sh*ts for EC if his parents weren't put up for trial.

 

[wyome]

Just my opinion I do not believe she would ever visit him. I think she will disappear.

I'm clearly in the minority on this one. She has lost most everything and will stick around and try to connect with him. I truly think she thinks she's *advertiser censored*. She's not hanging waiting on her husband.

 

[Boodles]

I agree. The investigation already shows that too. ( Board and Superintendant's wouldn't even speak to the school investigators.)
There is plenty of negligence to go around.

Anyway, I can imagine JC also suing the school, if at any stage down the line she is released because the state doesn't retry. Laughing all the way to the bank, as the saying goes.
Would she fill EC - or James's - commissary in the future? Possibly, I'm not sure.

Oh boy, I don’t think even she would have the audacity to sue the school. She and James are the ones who chose to leave EC at school that day and failed to divulge that he was just given a 9mm gun.

Can‘t the families of the victims sue the C’s in civil court? I would hope they could.

 

[Weki]

Father of one of the child victims reading a prepared statement to the press today. This seemed confusing to me. Do the parents believe the Crumbleys are at fault/culpable or what? I realize they are grief stricken and want answers for why this happened. This feels icky to me just like the Parkland resource officer trial (he was found not guilty). I think we as a society have to be measured and reasoned and not reactive. JMO

 

[TTF14]

Father of one of the child victims reading a prepared statement to the press today. This seemed confusing to me. Do the parents believe the Crumbleys are at fault/culpable or what? I realize they are grief stricken and want answers for why this happened. This feels icky to me just like the Parkland resource officer trial (he was found not guilty). I think we as a society have to be measured and reasoned and not reactive. JMO

He reminds me of Gino from 90 Day Fiance....Gino is also from Michigan.

 

[cottonweaver]

Oh boy, I don’t think even she would have the audacity to sue the school. She and James are the ones who chose to leave EC at school that day and failed to divulge that he was just given a 9mm gun.

Can‘t the families of the victims sue the C’s in civil court? I would hope they could.

JC said that she was a victim, in her testimony and at other times came across as indignant, to me.
She also blamed the school in her conversations with her bf Bryan, when she was hiding out. ( there was also blaming of ' the system' and the media, witchhunts etc)

I agree - IMO the parents are more culpable than the school based on what they knew, their legal duties as parents, what they didn't do and their actions around the weapon but the school is already being sued.

The first report I read on the investigation into the school drew some negative conclusions, particularly on senior management and Board and for me helped explain why the counselors in the meeting didn't do more.
Also, the burden of proof is lower in civil litigation so I assume the first suits by the victims will succeed.

As for the C's being sued. IDK. Will they have any money left? They were already in financial difficulties before the murder. IDK anything about Shannon's Smith's fee arrangements either. I don't know much about victims suing people who have no money so I can't speak to that.

Federal judge: Lawsuit against Oxford Schools, counselor and dean can continue

A federal judge ruled that a suit brought by victims' families in the Oxford High shooting can continue against the district, a counselor and a dean.

eu.freep.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

I don't remember the prosecution questioning the woman who sold the gun to JC and EC being questioned about any comments they made about the gun being a gift for EC.​

Did I miss it?​

​

The dealer that sold the gun used in the Oxford High School shooting is being sued​

JUNE 29, 2022 7:47 PM ET

'The suit filed by the Mueller family alleges negligence on the part of both the school district and Acme. It claims the dealer sold the gun to Crumbley's father "despite actual and/or constructive knowledge that the father was engaging in an illicit straw purchase ... and that the Acme gun was intended for the shooter."

A straw purchase is when an individual purchases a gun on behalf of someone else while falsely claiming the purchase is for themselves. According to the lawsuit, both Crumbley and his father made comments in Acme's store that indicated the gun was actually intended for the then-15-year-old. The sales clerk sold the gun to the father anyway.'

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/29/1108698652/oxford-high-school-shooting-gun-dealer-sued

 

[Boodles]

JC said that she was a victim, in her testimony and at other times came across as indignant, to me.
She also blamed the school in her conversations with her bf Bryan, when she was hiding out. ( there was also blaming of ' the system' and the media, witchhunts etc)

I agree - IMO the parents are more culpable than the school based on what they knew, their legal duties as parents, what they didn't do and their actions around the weapon but the school is already being sued.

The first report I read on the investigation into the school drew some negative conclusions, particularly on senior management and Board and for me helped explain why the counselors in the meeting didn't do more.
Also, the burden of proof is lower in civil litigation so I assume the first suits by the victims will succeed.

As for the C's being sued. IDK. Will they have any money left? They were already in financial difficulties before the murder. IDK anything about Shannon's Smith's fee arrangements either. I don't know much about victims suing people who have no money so I can't speak to that.

Federal judge: Lawsuit against Oxford Schools, counselor and dean can continue

A federal judge ruled that a suit brought by victims' families in the Oxford High shooting can continue against the district, a counselor and a dean.

eu.freep.com

Thanks for the link @cottonweaver.

Im just sitting here thinking how extremely sad it is that shooting safety assessments are such a huge thing now in our schools and society. We never had this problem back in my day. Now kids practice on the regular what to do when a shooter attacks. (We had other problems in my days, but not shootings.) But here we are. What a cluster. I’m angry.

From the article you linked: “The report released Monday examines the high school’s current threat and suicide assessment procedures, as well as safety and security policies. The report found that Oxford’s policies largely follow leading national best practices, but pointed out some improvements, including an inconsistency in how often staff ask students assessed for threats about access to weapons.”

 

[Sundog]

I see Matthews going real easy on JC.
Hopefully she doesn't sentence like she ran her courtroom.
Like a therapist mediating and wants everyone to be happy and like her.

If her personality leans that way, then she will want to please the families of the victims and the media as well. But I think she will mostly care about issues of jurisprudence and her reputation in the legal community. I think that will trump everything. Will she want to try to avoid an appeal and the possibility of losing on appeal?

Perhaps she is hoping for a hung jury so it won't be her problem anymore.

 

[Izzylizzy]

If her personality leans that way, then she will want to please the families of the victims and the media as well. But I think she will mostly care about issues of jurisprudence and her reputation in the legal community. I think that will trump everything. Will she want to try to avoid an appeal and the possibility of losing on appeal?

Perhaps she is hoping for a hung jury so it won't be her problem anymore.

Good possibilities.
.
I made a little change to my chosen one.

"Perhaps she is PRAYING for a hung jury so it won't be her problem anymore"

 

[Cool Cats]

If her personality leans that way, then she will want to please the families of the victims and the media as well. But I think she will mostly care about issues of jurisprudence and her reputation in the legal community. I think that will trump everything. Will she want to try to avoid an appeal and the possibility of losing on appeal?

Perhaps she is hoping for a hung jury so it won't be her problem anymore.

The appeal has nothing to do with Matthews

 

[DFWNF]

Oh boy, I don’t think even she would have the audacity to sue the school. She and James are the ones who chose to leave EC at school that day and failed to divulge that he was just given a 9mm gun.

Can‘t the families of the victims sue the C’s in civil court? I would hope they could.

Bbm I sure hope they do.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

This is a tragedy. Seeking to blame parents is not the way to fix this culture.

Do you think parents should ever be legally a responsible party, too, if their teenager takes the household gun to school? Or do you think that no matter what, the parents should be legally immune? Do you think we should look at which cases cross that line and why, or do you think the line simply can't be crossed?

 

[Cool Cats]

I'm clearly in the minority on this one. She has lost most everything and will stick around and try to connect with him. I truly think she thinks she's *advertiser censored*. She's not hanging waiting on her husband.

She could see him with At-Home video visitation solution through VisitMe. She could hide away in another state and still visit him from her home.

Other:

Writing letters, regular phone calls, sending reading materials, gift boxes where you buy commissary items for inmates, gift boxes already made up - many contain food treats, putting money in his commissary account.

GTL's VisitMe Video Visitation Solution | GTL

This highly scalable solution can help facilities of any size improve security while allowing staff time to be reallocated to more critical tasks.

www.gtl.net

 

[GRT]

I have thought since the beginning that she has been mischarged. IMO, should have been criminal negligence resulting in death.

I think she was mischarged, too, but I think they would have a better chance at a conviction if they charged her with something directly related to just EC, such as child endangerment or something similar.

I read the two legal descriptions the jury can pick from to find her guilty of involuntary manslaughter--and I didn't think either one qualifies. All, MOO, of course.

One said the jury needed to find that she had a legal duty to the victims. I think that would be very hard to establish. That would mean every person has a legal duty to every other person on the planet. I think that's a stretch.

If the jury goes by the letter of the law -- I don't think they will convict her. But if they go strictly on emotions, I think they might.

I'm also bothered by EC not testifying. To me (again, all MOO), that smacks of not allowing the defendant to have the best defense possible. I get that his attorney may not want him testifying--or that they fear he would take the fifth--but he's still the best witness, and I feel we should have heard from him. I think that might pave the way for an appeal right off the bat.

But, a jury can do anything--we've seen that many times.