GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #6

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I'm embedded in another trial but have watched a lot of the trial of this mother, too. I support the DA in pursuing charges in this case. I agree with the jury's decision. It is high time we hold parents responsible for their offspring's irresponsible and deadly behavior.

When I saw the nasty wooden floor leading into the kitchen, I gagged and thought I'd lose my lunch. She spent $20,000 on horses in one year but ignored the emotional and physical needs of her child. She neglected to care for her child and their home. His parents are at fault for ignoring his pleas for help. Ethan was neglected and abused.

I hope this verdict offers Ethan some solace in that we, the world, know his parents could have and should have done better when raising him.

JMHOO
She and James had an equal investment in the horses and the house and their son for that matter. We're just able to pick her apart because they have separate trials.

I don't how how much solace this verdict will provide Ethan, considering his statement to the court upon his sentencing was that his parents didn't know anything and had guilt in nothing. Of course this was not allowed for JC's jury to hear.

I'm obsessed with greyhounds. Very expensive athletes like horses. I never held her love of horses against her, nor her attention to that passion. IMO parents who don't have an outside interest tend to be the worst parents.
 
I am surprised as to the foreperson's youth, and Michigan tends to be a liberal-leaning state.
I agree that some of the comments by JC were a slap in the face.

I can see the older people going along with the younger jurors. I see this all the time in my own family. The older peeps don't even bother sparring, it's a losing battle. Besides, the older folk's kids are grown. Generations used to be able to agree to disagree. That's harder these days.
Yes maybe that did happen but I can't recall the jury make-up now.

I think @Izzylizzy posted about their age range but I can't find, maybe she can bump it back up again?
 
What's Huron Valley's reputation like?
Not great.

Just a couple things from the last few years.


Two former employees at a women's prison near Ypsilanti say they were fired after trying to report some of the abuse they witnessed inside.


 
Does anyone think this verdict will decrease the frequency of school shootings?
In my household we have one vote “yes” and one vote “no”. Interested in what the posters here think?
Hopefully yes.
School shootings,suicides and all shooting involving young people.

For starters how many parents in the US outside of Michigan have closely followed the case and trial besides 2nd Amendment devotees who interpret the case as unconstitutional and don't see anything but more gun regulations and/or those who interpret the guilty verdict as now the govt can criminally charge them for ANYTHING their kid does which is not true.

That (highlighted) may be what motivates some parents/adults to finally secure their guns and ammo and pay more attention to the warning signs that all the known shooters have in common.

Commonalities that statistically show that 80% of school shooters got their firearms from parents or grandparents and the Crumbleys were just added.
 
Yes maybe that did happen but I can't recall the jury make-up now.

I think @Izzylizzy posted about their age range but I can't find, maybe she can bump it back up again?
I had re-posted it.


BettyDavisEyes said:
This article provides details about each of the jurors.

www.detroitnews.com

Who will decide Jennifer Crumbley's fate? A snapshot of the jury

The jury appears to be evenly split between men and women who work in a variety of jobs. The majority are parents and more than half had experience with guns.
www.detroitnews.com
Click to expand...
 
I would have found her guilty because she clearly knew her child was a threat. I know she knew that because, while almost all of us would assume our child was a victim of a shooting, she never considered that. That says she had the information needed to conclude he was a threat and chose to do nothing.

She ignored her child saying he was hallucinating, but was okay with giving him a gun as a gift and going to the gun range with him so that he could practice.

She wasn't vigilant about how the gun was stored. The lock box's code was the default 0000 code. It would not have mattered because Ethan himself said the gun was not locked. But, ofc, that part was not heard by the jury. But they were shown where the gun safety mechanism was still in the packaging/not being used.

You have a mentally ill son in the house, you should not even bring guns into the home, but if you do, lock it up properly and NOT with the default code. I don't care if she was not the one who went to the store and bought it. All of us should know how and where a gun is stored and that it is safe, if we are going to have one in our home.

She contradicted herself on the stand when she said that when she heard about the shooting, she sent that text saying not to do it because she thought he was about to unalive himself. She said she didn't think he was going to get the gun to harm anyone else, but to harm himself. She then said, inside of the same sentence, that she thought he was going to harm himself because that's what school shooters do. This still acknowledges that she knew he was the shooter, no matter the convoluted way she attempted to dismiss it.

Finally, despite being the ones who knew that Ethan had access to a gun, upon seeing the picture he drew of himself holding a gun that looks like his own gun, his parents did not check to make sure the gun was not on him. Or in his locker. They didn't go home to make sure the gun was where it should be. They argued w/faculty and refused to take him out of school. Not to mention his mom laughed about him looking up bullets when that was reported by the school.

Ethan literally could not have done this without his parents. They supplied the gun and the lessons. They ignored his cries for mental health help. They downplayed the school's concerns. They did absolutely nothing to prevent the shooting from becoming the ultimate outcome. I don't see how it's possible that they are not guilty.

My opinion is not an emotional one and it is highly offensive for people to suggest that. If you are worried about having to face charges for your underage child's criminal actions, I have to worry that you are a bad parent. We all do because we all have to go out into the world where your kids are. We all have to send our kids to these schools. (And I am using 'you' in a general sense.)

I think this jury got it right and I would have voted the same way. Hopefully the parents who are worried are making sure that their guns are safe and their kids' cries for help are not being ignored.
THIS! Alllll of this!!!
 
The courtroom is packed with witnesses, law enforcement, victim's families and members of the media. Jennifer Crumbley, the Judge and the Jury have not yet entered.

Members of the prosecution are serious and seated. Crumbley's defense attorney, Shannon Smith, stands anxiously with her eyes trained on the door where her client will emerge from. The courtroom is deadly silent.

Jennifer Crumbley emerges. She appears slightly nervous as she exchanges a few words with her defense attorney. She is cuffed as she enters but is removed from her restraints as she takes her typical seat at the defense table. She continues to talk to Smith quietly.

The judge has entered the courtroom. We are now waiting on the jury. I will live-tweet the jury verdict separately.


BREAKING: Jury Verdict in #JenniferCrumbley Trial:
Count 1 – Involuntary Manslaughter (as to Madisyn Baldwin) - GUILTY
Count 2 - Involuntary Manslaughter (as to Tate Myre) - GUILTY
Count 3 - Involuntary Manslaughter (as to Hana St. Juliana) - GUILTY
Count 4 - Involuntary Manslaughter (as to Justin Shilling) - GUILTY


The verdict is unanimous from all members of the jury. It took approximately 11 hours of deliberation over the course of two days.Jennifer Crumbley has her head down and her attorney is whispering into her ear. The jury is being dismissed.


Sentencing has been scheduled for April 9, 2024 at 9 a.m. EST. The maximum penalty for involuntary manslaughter in the state of Michigan is 15 years in a state prison. If served consecutively, that could equate to 60 years in prison.

https://twitter.com/alcaprari23
 
She won't be adding this case to her press cuttings page on her website!

ps why is her partner not listed on her site ( the atty for James who is or was part of Shannon's firm)
The 2 lawyers couldn't do the blame game defense if they were from the same law firm.
The new evidence from Nov 2023 broke the Crumbley's united front.

After all is said and done if James's lawyer still wants to be associated with Smith she could re-join the law firm.
 
The 2 lawyers couldn't do the blame game defense if they were from the same law firm.
The new evidence from Nov 2023 broke the Crumbley's united front.

After all is said and done if James's lawyer still wants to be associated with Smith she could re-join the law firm.

What was the new evidence from November 2023 that would cause the parents to sever their trials?
 
She and James had an equal investment in the horses and the house and their son for that matter. We're just able to pick her apart because they have separate trials.

I don't how how much solace this verdict will provide Ethan, considering his statement to the court upon his sentencing was that his parents didn't know anything and had guilt in nothing. Of course this was not allowed for JC's jury to hear.

I'm obsessed with greyhounds. Very expensive athletes like horses. I never held her love of horses against her, nor her attention to that passion. IMO parents who don't have an outside interest tend to be the worst parents.
*better
 
I had re-posted it.


BettyDavisEyes said:
This article provides details about each of the jurors.

www.detroitnews.com

Who will decide Jennifer Crumbley's fate? A snapshot of the jury

The jury appears to be evenly split between men and women who work in a variety of jobs. The majority are parents and more than half had experience with guns.
www.detroitnews.com
Click to expand...
thanks, was looking for ages, only one juror has their age listed in that link, I'll look elsewhere
 
What was the new evidence from November 2023 that would cause the parents to sever their trials?
New evidence and 2 new witnesses from Florida.
The consensus in reporting is that they're James's ex-girlfriend and his son by her, they reside in Florida.
Eli, his son who is not a minor now had lived with the Crumbley's in Michigan and worked at the diner.
I thought they'd be called by the state in this trial to testify against JC but they weren't.
The ex trashed James as a father big time and JC even more.
Could they be called by the state or the defense in James trial?
 
So in EC’s Miller hearing, the state’s psychologist testified that EC told her he set his alarm for 5 am so he could get up while his parents were asleep in order to get the gun and bullets. It’s not clear if the gun was inside the home or in the car still at that point.

It was James who ran home after the shooting and opened the gun case to check if the gun was in there. So he moved it from where it was into the kitchen or bed (I can’t recall exactly) to check it. And that’s where LE found it.

Edited to add - The gun had to have been inside the home. So I don’t know what the foreperson is talking about - what is the relevance of JC being the last person seen with the gun at the shooting range????

JMO
 
Still SMH about Mrs. Crumbley. IMO, the quote cited below says so much about her and about her opinions about her son.
Excerpt from the NBC News article -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Feb. 6, 2024, 1:18 PM EST / Updated Feb. 6, 2024, 2:38 PM EST
By Selina Guevara and Erik Ortiz
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"She acknowledged that she could have taken him home on the day of the shooting, but also didn't believe he was capable of committing such violence. More than two years after the shooting, she told the jury she "wouldn't have" done anything differently."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Source:
Jennifer Crumbley, mother of Ethan Crumbley, found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in son’s school shooting
I bet she’s not saying that now.
That to me was the final nail in the coffin.
 
Really surprised at the verdict — thought this would be mistrial, and glad to see that it wasn't. But, have been thinking a lot about Columbine… curious why Klebold's and Harris’ parents were never charged or were they and then charges dropped-- never went to trial? Was it because K&H are dead? idk. DK wrote a story about killing students and his teacher got alarmed and alerted his parents. strange... moo
 
So in EC’s Miller hearing, the state’s psychologist testified that EC told her he set his alarm for 5 am so he could get up while his parents were asleep in order to get the gun and bullets. It’s not clear if the gun was inside the home or in the car still at that point.

It was James who ran home after the shooting and opened the gun case to check if the gun was in there. So he moved it from where it was into the kitchen or bed (I can’t recall exactly) to check it. And that’s where LE found it.

Edited to add - The gun had to have been inside the home. So I don’t know what the foreperson is talking about - what is the relevance of JC being the last person seen with the gun at the shooting range????

JMO
How did EC get the gun/ammo @ 5am if it was hidden in his parent's bedroom armoire and they were sleeping?
 
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