MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, shooting at Oxford High School, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents*

[katikaboom]

Awesome news.

The more details that come out, the more the maximum Michigan sentence of 15 years is warranted for the parents. Hopefully, the sentences will not be served concurrently, thus increasing the penalty.

CNN reports that:

- Despite knowing that their son had a history of threats, the son was present when the father purchased the weapon. The son's presence at the purchase coupled with his referring to the weapon as "his" on social media directly raises the possibility that the weapon was purchased for the shooter.

- When informed that her son, was intending to purchase ammunition, the mother took no action. Instead, she cautioned her son to make further searches in a manner that he would not be caught.

Going beyond CNN to a totally amateur observation on my part....

The shooter used a partial quote from Hindu Scripture / atomic weapons development before opening fire:

"Now, I have become death" (full quote: "Now, I have become death, the destroyer of worlds")

Another poster pointed out that the partial quote is used for an episode title in a once popular TV series. Episode created in 2008, series ended 2010. It is possible that the shooter got the quote from this, or another similar source. But.... the quote is still obscure.

Likewise, the mother complained that her son needed a tutor for common core- not exactly mind bending material and thus suggests shooter was not academically inclined towards anything. This would include Hindu scripture, atomic history, or say noting titles to episodes of a show ending ten years ago.

Given the apparent provision of the weapon, ignoring an intent to purchase ammunition, I wonder if the parents also, as another poster suggested, fed him the "Now, I have become death, the destroyer of worlds" quote and.... the attitude?

There's also a song by the band O'Brother titled I Am (Become Death). Released in 2016

 

[Facinatingtimes]

The older half brother who left to live with his mother sure made a good decision.
Brother of Ethan Crumbley says he never exhibited violent tendencies | Daily Mail Online

 

[IceIce9]

The school's concern was for Ethan's well being, in addition to the school's safety. If parent's refused to take him home, which it is stated was the case, how could they have expelled him? To where? With who? I do agree that best practices would be that he would have been placed in in-school suspension, or "safe school" as it was called at my last school. But the school's responsibility here pales in comparison to the parent's.

The school could have had security walk him out. If that failed, they could have called police to have him removed.

Since when do parents get to overrule the school’s determination to suspend a student?

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

This prosecutor is horrible. Absolutely no blame on the school at all. Disgusting.

I will never understand sending him back to the classroom. The drawing was an obvious cry for help, if he did not want the teacher to see that drawing she would not have.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

This is where the school should have an option to send a student home until there is an assessment by a mental health professional.

Or have him in a monitored setting, keep him out of the classroom

 

[IceIce9]

I believe the parents deserve the most blame for the situation. Still thinking that the school could/should have had him removed even if the parents weren’t cooperating.

So glad that the parents have been charged.

 

[JayLee#99]

I fully agree with your statement. I do not think a teen should own a gun especially a troubled one.
But, I thought we weren't allowed to discuss gun control on this forum.

It’s not really about gun control. It’s the law. He wasn’t legally allowed to possess that gun and they bought him the gun anyways!

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I am 61, grew up in a rural part of Texas where our high school parking lot was full of guns mounted in the windows of pick up trucks. We never had these random school shootings. I have researched the history of gun shootings in schools, I found they did happen through out the last 50/60 years but they were targeted conflicts, gang related, fights over a girl, one on one conflicts, not these random mass killings. What is going on in the past 20 years where this has become the answer, where these mass shooters are not being recognized before these tragedies happen?

 

[dotr]

.

The PC was damning. I actually gasped out loud several times.
It's really worth watching, for all the details it contains. JMO.

Some might wonder if the shooter thought he was doing something that would make somebody proud (parents), acting as an ambassador/rep. of sorts?

If an adult was inclined to write to a politician, cursing and using vulgar imagery in that letter, what message might that send to a susceptible teenager?
Entitlement/justification, to pull out ''the big guns'' in order to assert yourself, a disproportionate reaction to relatively puny matters?
speculation, imo. fwiw.

 

[JayLee#99]

The school's concern was for Ethan's well being, in addition to the school's safety. If parent's refused to take him home, which it is stated was the case, how could they have expelled him? To where? With who? I do agree that best practices would be that he would have been placed in in-school suspension, or "safe school" as it was called at my last school. But the school's responsibility here pales in comparison to the parent's.

I would agree with this but for I have always thought protocol when dealing with any type of threat to the school/students would be reported to police and they would in turn investigate. Police should have been called and they should have made the parents take Ethan home right then. I think the school’s administration is culpable in this situation. This child had been essentially crying for help for at least a month and teachers/students were doing exactly what they are supposed to do, report it and it will be dealt with by the administration.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I am 61, grew up in a rural part of Texas where our high school parking lot was full of guns mounted in the windows of pick up trucks. We never had these random school shootings. I have researched the history of gun shootings in schools, I found they did happen through out the last 50/60 years but they were targeted conflicts, gang related, fights over a girl, one on one conflicts, not these random mass killings. What is going on in the past 20 years where this has become the answer, where these mass shooters are not being recognized before these tragedies happen?

I'm very pleased to hear the parents were charged.

I'm very curious about that meeting with the school when they were presumably shown that drawing. What was the parents reaction? Did they not take it seriously? Was there no sense of urgency or alarm on their part?

Interesting to note as well that the sheriff said the parents are not cooperating with the investigation.

I would like to know too their reaction to the drawing. It has been reported that Ethan altered the drawing. I can’t imagine a parent ever having the thought that their kid could do what he did, that said as a parent myself if I were called in and shown a drawing like that, that kid would have been going home with me. It is interesting that the parents are now not cooperating, it’s being reported that the dad called 911 to report the missing gun and he thought Ethan was the shooter.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Teacher alarmed by Oxford suspect's drawings ahead of shooting, warned school leaders (detroitnews.com)

A teacher at Oxford High School was so disturbed by what she saw on Ethan Crumbley's desk the day the teen is accused of going on a killing spree in school, she took out her cell phone and snapped a photo as evidence to show school leaders.

According to authorities, on a piece of paper in front of Crumbley, the teacher saw the words: "the thoughts won't stop, help me" and a drawing of a bullet and the phrase: "blood everywhere."

There was a sketch of a person shot twice and bleeding, a laughing emoji and the final lines: “my life is useless” and “the world is dead.”...

Police: Oxford High School shooting suspect looked up ammo in class; mother told him not to get caught (clickondetroit.com)

A cry for help, so many failures, I have to believe if he did not want the teacher to see that drawing she would not have.

 

[ilovewings]

Jennifer and James Crumbley were charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter. James Crumbley purchased the weapon for his son days before shooting, according to the sheriff. Under Michigan law, an involuntary manslaughter charge can be pursued if prosecutors believe someone contributed to a situation where harm or death was high. If convicted, they could face up to 15 years in prison.
Parents of suspected Michigan H.S. shooter are charged with involuntary manslaughter (nbcnews.com)

wow, just wow. These parents deserve every book that can be thrown at them. Just a massive fail in every way on their part. And now their 15 year old's life is ruined, other children are dead, just wow.

Enabled by his parents doesn't even begin to address this situation. If any parents ever needed to be charged and held accountable, these two fit that definition. I think they bought the gun for him. Not sure that can be proved though

 

[Marysmith]

this article suggests that prosecutors think the gun was purchased for him as well:

By the time a counselor obtained the drawing, the teen had allegedly altered it, McDonald said.

"At the meeting, James and Jennifer Crumbley were shown the drawing and were advised that they were required to get their son into counseling within 48 hours," she said. "Both James and Jennifer Crumbley failed to ask their son if he had his gun with him or where his gun was located and failed to inspect his backpack for the presence of the gun, which he had with him."
Michigan school shooting suspect's parents charged, teen allegedly wrote violent note hours before attack

"At the meeting James and Jennifer Crumbley were shown the drawing and were advised that they were required to get the — their son into counseling within 48 hours," she said.

The prosecutor said the parents "failed to ask their son if he had his gun with him or where his gun was located and failed to inspect his backpack for the presence of the gun which he had with him."

The parents resisted the idea of their son leaving the school at that time and they left the school without him, she added. He was returned to the classroom.
Live updates: Oxford High School shooting in Michigan

Maybe they even have video footage or an interview with the store that they bought the gun from that showed him with his dad when they bought the gun indicating that the gun was for him…

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Enabled by his parents doesn't even begin to address this situation. If any parents ever needed to be charged and held accountable, these two fit that definition. I think they bought the gun for him. Not sure that can be proved though

It was already proven by the mother's own words.

 

[Betty P]

Or have him in a monitored setting, keep him out of the classroom

Since the parents were not cooperating at all with the school, it's difficult to know what went into that decision. The school did not know he even had access to a weapon, let alone that he had one in his backpack. It's very likely his parents suspected he had the gun on him that day, but refused to say anything for fear of legal action against their son or themselves.

The parents were very much on the defensive at school. It sounded like a hostile situation. The probably advised their son not to talk to the principal/counselors, etc. My guess is, at that time, the school felt they were risking legal action from the parents if they pushed it any further.

Kids at school have the same rights as any adult. The school can't just grab them, search their belongings and detain them without probable cause.

IANAL, JMO

 

[Facinatingtimes]

Some might wonder if the shooter thought he was doing something that would make somebody proud (parents), acting as an ambassador/rep. of sorts?

If an adult was inclined to write to a politician, cursing and using vulgar imagery in that letter, what message might that send to a susceptible teenager?
Entitlement/justification, to pull out ''the big guns'' in order to assert yourself, a disproportionate reaction to relatively puny matters?
speculation, imo. fwiw.

The mother expressed anger (blogs to Trump), and the older brother left the home abruptly because of issues with her. Kids watch their parents’ behavior and reactions. He was 15 - impressionable, and now given a gun by them. Maybe suffering from a mental illness. Like someone said up thread, we ask kids to deal with a lot these days with social media etc, adding to that is a real pressure cooker. Their brains aren’t equipped to handle it all.

 

[Marysmith]

Since the parents were not cooperating at all with the school, it's difficult to know what went into that decision. The school did not know he even had access to a weapon, let alone that he had one in his backpack. It's very likely his parents suspected he had the gun on him that day, but refused to say anything for fear of legal action against their son or themselves.

The parents were very much on the defensive at school. It sounded like a hostile situation. The probably advised their son not to talk to the principal/counselors, etc. My guess is, at that time, the school felt they were risking legal action from the parents if they pushed it any further.

Kids at school have the same rights as any adult. The school can't just grab them, search their belongings and detain them without probable cause.

IANAL, JMO

I agree that this is likely the case. This is a brutal situation for the school. I’m sure the school is beyond devastated that this happened. JMO.

 

[Betty P]

I am 61, grew up in a rural part of Texas where our high school parking lot was full of guns mounted in the windows of pick up trucks. We never had these random school shootings. I have researched the history of gun shootings in schools, I found they did happen through out the last 50/60 years but they were targeted conflicts, gang related, fights over a girl, one on one conflicts, not these random mass killings. What is going on in the past 20 years where this has become the answer, where these mass shooters are not being recognized before these tragedies happen?

I would like to know too their reaction to the drawing. It has been reported that Ethan altered the drawing. I can’t imagine a parent ever having the thought that their kid could do what he did, that said as a parent myself if I were called in and shown a drawing like that, that kid would have been going home with me. It is interesting that the parents are now not cooperating, it’s being reported that the dad called 911 to report the missing gun and he thought Ethan was the shooter.

One of the texts that the mother sent to Ethan that day was "Don't do it". JMO, at least one of the parents knew there was a risk of him shooting people at the school.

As news broke Tuesday of a mass shooting at Oxford High School, the mother of the teen suspect sent her son a text message.

"Ethan, don't do it," Jennifer Crumbley wrote.

BBM

Oxford school shooting: Parents charged with manslaughter

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Since the parents were not cooperating at all with the school, it's difficult to know what went into that decision. The school did not know he even had access to a weapon, let alone that he had one in his backpack. It's very likely his parents suspected he had the gun on him that day, but refused to say anything for fear of legal action against their son or themselves.

The parents were very much on the defensive at school. It sounded like a hostile situation. The probably advised their son not to talk to the principal/counselors, etc. My guess is, at that time, the school felt they were risking legal action from the parents if they pushed it any further.

Kids at school have the same rights as any adult. The school can't just grab them, search their belongings and detain them without probable cause.

IANAL, JMO

Having a drawing with the words help me, a gun, someone shot and bleeding is an obvious cry for help and it’s not just grabbing a student to search them for no reason. The drawing itself is enough probable cause. By your reasoning no child would ever be put in detention or suffer any consequences if the parents don’t agree. I think the school has liability in their decision to put him back into the classroom