MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, shooting at Oxford High School, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents*

[tlcya]

Ethan Crumbley was searching ammunition on his cell phone in class and a teacher reported it. School called and emailed parents – but got no response. Detectives say Ethan’s mom texted him: “LOL I’m not mad at you. You have to learn how not to get caught.”

https://twitter.com/BrianEntin/status/1466826085761527817

When the news of the active shooter was made public – Ethan’s mom texted her son “Ethan, don’t do it.” Gun was stored unlocked in the home.

https://twitter.com/BrianEntin/status/1466827994215952384

Morning of shooting -- Ethan’s teacher came across a note on his desk that contained a drawing of a gun pointed at words “the thoughts won’t stop. Help me.” And a drawing of a person who was shot. Parents summoned to the school - but Ethan **was returned to the classroom.**

https://twitter.com/BrianEntin/status/1466827397559373826

Just got back from lunch and catching up. Thank you @Kristin Esq. for these tweets. The level of - well I don't even have a word for Ethan's mother's complete - lack of - well, I should just zip it so I can stay on the right side of our mods. But daaaang

I am glad the parents have been charged. I am more and more convinced that gun was specifically purchased for Ethan. SMDH

 

[Facinatingtimes]

If all the school knew was that he searched ammo on his phone during class and drew the disturbing picture, I’m not sure calling LE in would have been warranted. There were no other discipline records. However, if they also knew about any threats made, rumors about threats, or the social media posts about him with a gun….then those things altogether should have required the SRO to be involved. And they should have searched his stuff- for his safety as well as others. IMO.

 

[x_files]

No, they didn't. She wrote it in her cute letter to Mr. Trump:
"You see Mr. Trump I can go on and on, in fact I used to think Democrat. I don’t believe in God and Im quite opposite of your typical “republican”. "
The mom of accused Oxford High School shooter penned a letter revealing her son's 'struggles' | Daily Mail Online
Click on "post" link in first paragraph for full letter.

ok, you are correct.
I thought I read in another article the family was raised, Christian. I'm getting my school shooters mixed up.

 

[CrimeAway]

Press conference today:

 

[x_files]

Is there any evidence that students wanted to report to the school, but didn't feel safe to do so?

There were several students who stayed home that day because of rumors of threats but didn't call the police or the school. So, I wonder why they didn't make a report?

No, it's speculation due to kids didn't feel safe going to school that day.
I am commenting on how many classmates in the past school shootings have said complaining didn't lead to solutions felt ignored and nothing was done, and feared being called a snitch and being bullied themselves.

 

[Kristin Esq.]

Press conference today:

Thank you for posting. I missed most of it.

 

[x_files]

The school's concern was for Ethan's well being, in addition to the school's safety. If parent's refused to take him home, which it is stated was the case, how could they have expelled him? To where? With who? I do agree that best practices would be that he would have been placed in in-school suspension, or "safe school" as it was called at my last school. But the school's responsibility here pales in comparison to the parent's.

If the school asked him to leave the premises and the parents refused I think legally they could call the police to remove him and drop him off at home or hold him.
The parents cannot dump him there after he was suspended for the day.
But we'd need an attorney to weigh in.

 

[x_files]

I wondered about that, as the middle school I taught at did search student's backpacks. (Backpacks were actually not allowed in classrooms, but this was a high school.) But why didn't the parents look in his backpack? After seeing his drawing and words, why weren't they concerned? In that meeting and in general, the parents had the power and the responsibility.

I would be interested to know if there is some law or policy that backpacks cannot be searched.

Yes, I am curious too why his backpack wasn't searched and if it is not legal there.

 

[mommylicious]

One thing to keep in mind is that we are looking at it through the lens of what we know now. Should the school have called LE? Based on what we know now, absolutely. Based on what they were working with at the time, not necessarily a disturbing sketch doesn't mean he's going to necessarily shoot up the school that day. The school probably thought they had more time to work with parents to try to get him therapy, etc. As someone mentioned above, schools are focused on what they can do to help students. They probably thought they could still help him, especially without previous discipline reports. Usually there is more of an escalation in behavior.

 

[mommylicious]

* I should also note that when it comes to disagreements between school and family, the power almost always lies with family.

 

[x_files]

Definitely. And also parents should not be buying guns for teens who are going through a rough time. And when said teen expresses violent thoughts about others, the parents WHO ARE THE ONLY ONES PRESENT WHO KNEW HE HAD A GUN, Didn’t ask about it. Or take their son Home until they could find a therapist. It’s beyond negligent.

I fully agree with your statement. I do not think a teen should own a gun especially a troubled one.
But, I thought we weren't allowed to discuss gun control on this forum.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Teacher alarmed by Oxford suspect's drawings ahead of shooting, warned school leaders (detroitnews.com)

A teacher at Oxford High School was so disturbed by what she saw on Ethan Crumbley's desk the day the teen is accused of going on a killing spree in school, she took out her cell phone and snapped a photo as evidence to show school leaders.

According to authorities, on a piece of paper in front of Crumbley, the teacher saw the words: "the thoughts won't stop, help me" and a drawing of a bullet and the phrase: "blood everywhere."

There was a sketch of a person shot twice and bleeding, a laughing emoji and the final lines: “my life is useless” and “the world is dead.”...

Police: Oxford High School shooting suspect looked up ammo in class; mother told him not to get caught (clickondetroit.com)

 

[tlcya]

this article suggests that prosecutors think the gun was purchased for him as well:

By the time a counselor obtained the drawing, the teen had allegedly altered it, McDonald said.

"At the meeting, James and Jennifer Crumbley were shown the drawing and were advised that they were required to get their son into counseling within 48 hours," she said. "Both James and Jennifer Crumbley failed to ask their son if he had his gun with him or where his gun was located and failed to inspect his backpack for the presence of the gun, which he had with him."
Michigan school shooting suspect's parents charged, teen allegedly wrote violent note hours before attack

"At the meeting James and Jennifer Crumbley were shown the drawing and were advised that they were required to get the — their son into counseling within 48 hours," she said.

The prosecutor said the parents "failed to ask their son if he had his gun with him or where his gun was located and failed to inspect his backpack for the presence of the gun which he had with him."

The parents resisted the idea of their son leaving the school at that time and they left the school without him, she added. He was returned to the classroom.
Live updates: Oxford High School shooting in Michigan

 

[Kristin Esq.]

Ethan was with his father when the gun was bought. And on his social media, he said he "got this new beauty today."

"Mom and son testing out his new Christmas present."

This is from the prosecutors press conference.

 

[TGIRecovered]

School staff are typically advocates for children. They would have been thinking about what was best for Ethan. They would have worried about him, not just seen him as a threat. That is what is hard to understand if a person has never worked in schools, with LE or other professions where you work with children.

They didn't want to just throw him out, remember, he didn't have a disciplinary record. Maybe the counselor or someone advocated for keeping him at school. I don't know how to explain how school staff have a "heart" for children. The public hears about a kid with "bad" behavior, and thinks, throw them out! Easy! But that's not how school staff think. I had students that moved, or were expelled, and I worried about them for a long time. Teachers typically don't want to get rid of kids and wash their hands of them. If he had a long history of behavior problems, it would have been easier.

As it turns out, it was a mistake to put this boy's well being above that of others. It's a balance and the school erred on the side of his well being, IMO.

He should not have been returned to the classroom. They failed to see the seriousness of his drawing and notes. They perhaps saw it as a isolated or first time offense, I don't know. At the least, if that classroom teacher didn't feel safe, he should not have been returned.

But the parents had the power and responsibility to stop all this in the first place.

I respect your option and experience, ReadySet, I just disagree with the premise that the school was looking out for Ethan’s best interests. It seems that the teachers did the right thing but school admin dropped the ball.

I grew up two parents who are teachers. My father was a school administrator. I have a sister and brother-in-law who spent over 30 years in education. I worked for seven years as a substitute teacher. I was married to a police officer then police chief for 25 years. I think I understand how the system is supposed to work.

It is never OK to sacrifice the safety of another student much less the entire school in order to shield a dangerous student from legal consequences. Schools have a duty to protect all of the students.

Ethan needed immediate professional help. He needed to be removed from the situation that was the focus of his homicidal thoughts. In his note, he explicitly asked for help. If police had been notified, there would have been good reason to employ the Baker Act to put him in a mental health facility for 3 days, which would have given him access to the professional help that his parents were not willing to provide.

MOO

 

[tlcya]

Jennifer and James Crumbley were charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter. James Crumbley purchased the weapon for his son days before shooting, according to the sheriff. Under Michigan law, an involuntary manslaughter charge can be pursued if prosecutors believe someone contributed to a situation where harm or death was high. If convicted, they could face up to 15 years in prison.
Parents of suspected Michigan H.S. shooter are charged with involuntary manslaughter (nbcnews.com)

wow, just wow. These parents deserve every book that can be thrown at them. Just a massive fail in every way on their part. And now their 15 year old's life is ruined, other children are dead, just wow.

 

[MrsWatson]

I'm very pleased to hear the parents were charged.

I'm very curious about that meeting with the school when they were presumably shown that drawing. What was the parents reaction? Did they not take it seriously? Was there no sense of urgency or alarm on their part?

Interesting to note as well that the sheriff said the parents are not cooperating with the investigation.

 

[CrimeAway]

One thing to keep in mind is that we are looking at it through the lens of what we know now. Should the school have called LE? Based on what we know now, absolutely. Based on what they were working with at the time, not necessarily a disturbing sketch doesn't mean he's going to necessarily shoot up the school that day. The school probably thought they had more time to work with parents to try to get him therapy, etc. As someone mentioned above, schools are focused on what they can do to help students. They probably thought they could still help him, especially without previous discipline reports. Usually there is more of an escalation in behavior.

I'm withholding judgment on the school until we hear more details.
However, I'm sure that their level of concern would have been elevated if they knew that the shooter had just received a weapon as an early Christmas gift, and had already been practicing with it.

 

[Lilibet]

School staff are typically advocates for children. They would have been thinking about what was best for Ethan. They would have worried about him, not just seen him as a threat. That is what is hard to understand if a person has never worked in schools, with LE or other professions where you work with children.

They didn't want to just throw him out, remember, he didn't have a disciplinary record. Maybe the counselor or someone advocated for keeping him at school. I don't know how to explain how school staff have a "heart" for children. The public hears about a kid with "bad" behavior, and thinks, throw them out! Easy! But that's not how school staff think. I had students that moved, or were expelled, and I worried about them for a long time. Teachers typically don't want to get rid of kids and wash their hands of them. If he had a long history of behavior problems, it would have been easier.

As it turns out, it was a mistake to put this boy's well being above that of others. It's a balance and the school erred on the side of his well being, IMO.

He should not have been returned to the classroom. They failed to see the seriousness of his drawing and notes. They perhaps saw it as a isolated or first time offense, I don't know. At the least, if that classroom teacher didn't feel safe, he should not have been returned.

But the parents had the power and responsibility to stop all this in the first place.

THANK YOU @ReadySet, for explaining so clearly and eloquently how teachers and schools think about their students’ well-being. My husband taught school for close to thirty years and you are absolutely correct. I find it extremely disturbing that people here are blaming the school more than being furious with the parents, as my husband and I are. I think it is sometimes easier to blame schools where many may have bad memories than to blame parents, which many of us are.

I’d also like to point out that even if the police had been called in, there was nothing they legally could have done if the parents weren’t cooperative. Words and drawings are not grounds for arrest. Clearly, the mother had a terrible attitude and would have resisted help from authorities. We all wish Ethan’s backpack had been searched, but we don’t know whether the parents refused to give the school permission to do that. The mistake the school made was in letting him return to the classroom, but I believe this boy would have found a way to commit this horrible act somehow that “voices” were apparently telling him to do. All JMO.

I posted earlier about Kip Kinkel, the Springfield, Oregon school shooter who was hearing voices telling him to kill. Ethan’s note about the voices indicates that he may have been struggling with severe mental illness. Although Kinkel received counseling, he managed to hide the voices from his therapist and parents. He and his father went target shooting to “bond.”

A short version of the HuffPost article…
Thurston High School shooter Kip Kinkel says he feels 'tremendous shame and guilt'

The full story of the Kinkel interview that I posted several days ago. Well worth reading to understand what may have been going on with Ethan. It doesn’t excuse, but it helps explain the horror inflicted on these students.
Kip Kinkel Is Ready To Speak

 

[CrimeAway]

Ethan was with his father when the gun was bought. And on his social media, he said he "got this new beauty today."

"Mom and son testing out his new Christmas present."

This is from the prosecutors press conference.

The PC was damning. I actually gasped out loud several times.
It's really worth watching, for all the details it contains. JMO.