MI MI - Alexandra Brueger, 31, Fatally Shot While Jogging, Rose Twp, 30 July 2016 #4

[Sd8503]

Ahhhh I see. Thanks! Its a shame I missed it. Im sure we havent seen the last of him though.

 

[Jennifer17]

Looney tunes.

Yep. He has done himself no favours.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

 

[black_squirrel]

Thanks for your expert contribution, gitana. In my opinion, not only does the evidence we know of fail to meet the legal standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt", but it also has not convinced me in the sense that my confidence that Wes was the perpetrator is at the moment less than 50%. Let me
expand on this point by point.

Hi Shires:

You asked me a couple questions and responded to a few points in the last thread that I'd like to address.

First, there indeed is evidence that points to Wes' possible guilt. It's circumstantial which is fine. Most evidence in murder cases is. That includes in this case (but is not limited to):

1. He has no confirmed alibi for whenever Ally was murdered. That's evidence.

True, but many people don't have an alibi. In his case it is not suspicious. Of course he would be sleeping the day after.

2. He is a liar and has been inconsistent on various aspects of this case including his access to firearms and bizarrelly, to inside information he thinks LE has given HIM about the case, among other things. His lies about this case are evidence.

How did he lie about his access to firearms? He claimed that at the time of the murder he had only a crossbow and that firearms for hunting were at his dad's place. He made some statement about "sleeping with a firearm", but if I recall correctly that was years later when he was living at a different place. I don't see an inconsistency but perhaps I missed something.

Overall Wes did exaggerate his knowledge about the investigation. Are there things we can point to in this regard that are clearly blatant lies?

3. He had access to firearms. That's evidence.

In what way did he have access to firearms? Do we have proof of that? Any firearm that he
had access to most likely has been tested. If he was the perpetrator, it probably was with a firearm
that we do not know about.

4. He failed at least on polygraph. While that's not admissible evidence, it is still evidence.

To me this has some weight, even though polygraphs are not very reliable.

5. The break up. Breaks ups are common motivators for murders by controlling men. The break up is evdience that can be used against him even though motive does not have to be proved. It almost always is presented for a jury to return a verdict.

There was a break-up, but according to Nikki the split was amicable. And there is
also evidence that they had reconciled. So this does not have much weight for me. If there was some evidence that there was a fight or disagreement near the time of her that, then THAT would have some weight for me.

6. The lack of sexual assault. That is evidence that points away from sexual predation as a motive and more toward random spree killer or someone who knew her.

I wouldn't say that that excludes the possibilty of a sexual predator. It just shows that Ally was able
to get away, but then was shot.

7. The manner of killing. About 80% of intimate partner murders of a female by a male are via shooting. That stat is expert evidence.

if 80% of killings by soldiers are via shooting, does this show that the perpetrator is likely to be a soldier?
But what percentage of shooting deaths that are from an intimate partner? That is the statistic that is (somewhat) relevant here.

8. His low threshold for anger and extremely controlling nature. That's evidence that fits a profile of a post-break up murderer.

I am not going to argue here. But most unlikable, narcissistic people are not murderers.

9. Unknown evidence at the scene that led LE to believe that Ally knew her attacker.

They don't seem so sure anymore.

10. Ally had no enemies.

From what we know so far, Wes wasn't an enemy either at the time of her death.

I am playing devil's advocate here a bit. But my point is that there is not really that much evidence at all, and it is not enough to convince me that it had to be him and that it could not have been another person, known or unknown to the victim.

 

[Jennifer17]

The only evidence that they had reconciled came from him. She was still living with her parent's. She, unfettered by a lease agreement could have moved back in with him if they were reconciled, but she did not and planned to meet an old flame in Florida, which I believe was the catalyst for action.

 

[jackiejack35]

The VI was banned, we do not know why, but you can kind of guess by the threatening tone of his public posts. He acquired a new account and came back saying the same old stuff with bolded text and all caps. Screaming.

It really was like he was screaming!
What I found interesting about this recent explosion was his insistence that everyone else is lying.
Most of what we have all posted about why we suspect him and our reasons all come from things HE has said or done, and official statements from LE. It’s strange how focused he is on proving everyone else is a liar.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Thanks for your expert contribution, gitana. In my opinion, not only does the evidence we know of fail to meet the legal standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt", but it also has not convinced me in the sense that my confidence that Wes was the perpetrator is at the moment less than 50%. Let me
expand on this point by point.


True, but many people don't have an alibi. In his case it is not suspicious. Of course he would be sleeping the day after.

How did he lie about his access to firearms? He claimed that at the time of the murder he had only a crossbow and that firearms for hunting were at his dad's place. He made some statement about "sleeping with a firearm", but if I recall correctly that was years later when he was living at a different place. I don't see an inconsistency but perhaps I missed something.

Overall Wes did exaggerate his knowledge about the investigation. Are there things we can point to in this regard that are clearly blatant lies?

In what way did he have access to firearms? Do we have proof of that? Any firearm that he
had access to most likely has been tested. If he was the perpetrator, it probably was with a firearm
that we do not know about.

To me this has some weight, even though polygraphs are not very reliable.

There was a break-up, but according to Nikki the split was amicable. And there is
also evidence that they had reconciled. So this does not have much weight for me. If there was some evidence that there was a fight or disagreement near the time of her that, then THAT would have some weight for me.

I wouldn't say that that excludes the possibilty of a sexual predator. It just shows that Ally was able
to get away, but then was shot.

if 80% of killings by soldiers are via shooting, does this show that the perpetrator is likely to be a soldier?
But what percentage of shooting deaths that are from an intimate partner? That is the statistic that is (somewhat) relevant here.

I am not going to argue here. But most unlikable, narcissistic people are not murderers.

They don't seem so sure anymore.

From what we know so far, Wes wasn't an enemy either at the time of her death.

I am playing devil's advocate here a bit. But my point is that there is not really that much evidence at all, and it is not enough to convince me that it had to be him and that it could not have been another person, known or unknown to the victim.

I agree Squirrel. He will have his families confirmation of the 4th July party that they attended to also show they were still a couple. On the poly he said the first was inconclusive and the second he failed, yet they had him for 6 hours, which suggests to me they kept him till he failed. This would be police tactics of course IMO.

 

[jackiejack35]

I’m wondering if LE has been able to check things like where his phone was pinging at the time of murder.
Would that be enough to arrest if it was pinging towers near Ally or if it was pinging near his home, would that be enough to clear? I wonder what they are looking into now, two years later, or if LE truly is at a standstill at this time.

 

[bears10]

I agree Squirrel. He will have his families confirmation of the 4th July party that they attended to also show they were still a couple. On the poly he said the first was inconclusive and the second he failed, yet they had him for 6 hours, which suggests to me they kept him till he failed. This would be police tactics of course IMO.

BBM. Can you link the source for this?

 

[Shiressleuth]

BBM. Can you link the source for this?

The source is a VI post on here and I think the search function is still disabled but you can try I guess.

The source re the poly is the CWD
interview everyone has recently mentioned.

Is that what you needed?

Eta the 6 hour poly is also quoted in post 981 (Lillebet) on the last thread.

It's easy to miss posts when they're coming thick and fast.

 

[Jax49]

Wes said there was a 6-hour test, but I don't believe he ever said the second (failed) test was the same day. moo

 

[Spellbound]

I’m wondering if LE has been able to check things like where his phone was pinging at the time of murder.
Would that be enough to arrest if it was pinging towers near Ally or if it was pinging near his home, would that be enough to clear? I wonder what they are looking into now, two years later, or if LE truly is at a standstill at this time.

I wouldn't think so. He could leave his phone at home; have it turned off, etc. but if it pinged in the area of her murder, it might be useful as possible evidence of being there.

 

[RANCH]

If LE administers a polygraph to a suspect are they legally obligated to tell them the truth about the results?

Can they lie? Can they say to the suspect they passed when they actually failed in order to make the suspect feel at ease and drop his guard? Or tell them that they failed when he/she actually passed to put pressure on the suspect?

 

[Shiressleuth]

Wes said there was a 6-hour test, but I don't believe he ever said the second (failed) test was the same day. moo

Wes said there was a 6-hour test, but I don't believe he ever said the second (failed) test was the same day. moo

He didn't say it wasn't either hence my suggested opinion of the police tactics. If they pulled him in again for a second 6 hour poly it would surprise me even more. But that is another interpretation. IMO

 

[FlossyMay]

If LE administers a polygraph to a suspect are they legally obligated to tell them the truth about the results?

Can they lie? Can they say to the suspect they passed when they actually failed in order to make the suspect feel at ease and drop his guard? Or tell them that they failed when he/she actually passed to put pressure on the suspect?

I am curious about this myself. I would imagine if he hired a lawyer, they could request the poly results, but I don't really know for sure.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

The Truth About Lie Detectors (aka Polygraph Tests)

Lie Detector Test Procedure - Lie Detector Test

Polygraph Frequently Asked Questions

 

[Shiressleuth]

How to Pass a Polygraph Test

Frequently Asked Questions

Reading these links, 6 hours seems excessive IMO.

I see BDE has posted some links also.

This is interesting from the second link:-

"How many issues can I be asked about in one examination?The most accurate test which can be conducted is the single issue test. If more issues must be explored, more questions must be asked if they are related, or another exam must be designed and conducted following the first one. This usually adds to the time and cost involved. An effect called "anti-climax dampening" makes test results less reliable with an increase in the number of relevant test questions. A healthy individual can only produce readable polygraph charts for a limited period of time. After this time has expired, it is not possible to generate a conclusive polygraph test and any further testing must be scheduled for a different day."

 

[rosesfromangels]

How to Pass a Polygraph Test

Frequently Asked Questions

Reading these links, 6 hours seems excessive IMO.

I see BDE has posted some links also.

Not if the examiner was detecting the subject was attempting deception.
IMO, poly's are as good as the examiner that gives them. An examiner from one of the agencies would be highly skilled, and those results should be very helpful directionally; to narrow down focus. Often times, "inconclusive" is a result of an attempt at deception. Amateur opinion and speculation only; not a verified poly examiner. ; )

 

[The Gorgeous Grouper]

While it is nice that the members respect the fact you are lawyer, your comment is unfortunate. How on earth can you claim Ally had no enemies ? Did you know her personally? That one bold, unfounded assertion taints everything else you said. If you begin with the premise that no one else could have killed her, you will of course blame the ex/sort of non ex. Hopefully your clients receive much better counsel than this.

I am not sure who killed her. Wes's behavior has not done him any favors. As a PR guy some of his conduct has made me cringe. I would have advised him to stay off the internet and be extraordinarily polite and respectful. When you are suspected of killing a woman any aggressive words, emails ect toward other can be particularly damaging.

It is not uncommon for those who served and were involved in combat to avoid speaking of it. But I think Wes's military service is one of the most compelling reasons to avoid jumping to conclusions. If his username is accurate he was responsible for risking his life to save his fellow soldiers. He has seen the devastating effect weapons can have on the human body and witnessed horrific things none of the commenters with their internet psychological diagnoses have.

I am also doubtful a trained, combat experienced soldier would need to shoot at a woman 4 times in order to kill her with a shotgun.

The ranting and odd behavior could be the result of a frustrated guy who feels the police have not done a bang up job of solving the murder of someone he cared about. (whatever of the details of their seemingly complicated relationship)

Unlike everyone else here I do not know what happened that afternoon.

Hi Shires:

You asked me a couple questions and responded to a few points in the last thread that I'd like to address.

First, there indeed is evidence that points to Wes' possible guilt. It's circumstantial which is fine. Most evidence in murder cases is. That includes in this case (but is not limited to):

1. He has no confirmed alibi for whenever Ally was murdered. That's evidence.
2. He is a liar and has been inconsistent on various aspects of this case including his access to firearms and bizarrelly, to inside information he thinks LE has given HIM about the case, among other things. His lies about this case are evidence.
3. He had access to firearms. That's evidence.
4. He failed at least on polygraph. While that's not admissible evidence, it is still evidence.
5. The break up. Breaks ups are common motivators for murders by controlling men. The break up is evdience that can be used against him even though motive does not have to be proved. It almost always is presented for a jury to return a verdict.
6. The lack of sexual assault. That is evidence that points away from sexual predation as a motive and more toward random spree killer or someone who knew her.
7. The manner of killing. About 80% of intimate partner murders of a female by a male are via shooting. That stat is expert evidence.
8. His low threshold for anger and extremely controlling nature. That's evidence that fits a profile of a post-break up murderer.
9. Unknown evidence at the scene that led LE to believe that Ally knew her attacker.
10. Ally had no enemies.

To say there is no evidence is false. But your next question had to do with how or when he would be arrested.

They need enough evidence not just for probable cause, which they may indeed have, but to sustain a charge. Most DA's won't authorize prosecution unless they have more than mere probable cause and most LE work with the DA to decide to arrest someone.

I don't know what they have. I've seen cases where they clearly have a lot but the state feels it's not enough to go forward and it never does.

I've also seen cases where years have gone by with no movement and suddenly, LE make the arrest
and the charge goes forward. That could be because of significant new evidence or even something minor that tends to tie it together.

I don't know everything LE has so I can't say what they know.

My personal feeling is the boyfriend is the culprit. And I think he is going to do something else to someone else in the future because something appears very wrong with him and it's unlikely he will be able to maintain control for long with any other woman he dates.

It is quite possible he will never be arrested in this case but I think the likelihood of criminal charges in the future for something unrelated is high with this man. He seemed sadly unhinged in his posts.

Remember though that lack of sufficient evidence to go to trial does not mean a person is innocent, only that they must be treated as innocent by the court system.

Finally, you mentioned previously that because he drives a different car than one that was seen in the area around the time of the murder that means his means and opportunity to commit this crime are extinguished.

That's not close to logical, with respect. There is no evidence that the car is related to the crime. And there's no evidence that Wes was incapable of accessing a different car the night of the murder or that he didn't use his own that night.

 

[Jennifer17]

While it is nice that the members respect the fact you are lawyer, your comment is unfortunate. How on earth can you claim Ally had no enemies ? Did you know her personally? That one bold, unfounded assertion taints everything else you said. If you begin with the premise that no one else could have killed her, you will of course blame the ex/sort of non ex. Hopefully your clients receive much better counsel than this.

I am not sure who killed her. Wes's behavior has not done him any favors. As a PR guy some of his conduct has made me cringe. I would have advised him to stay off the internet and be extraordinarily polite and respectful. When you are suspected of killing a woman any aggressive words, emails ect toward other can be particularly damaging.

It is not uncommon for those who served and were involved in combat to avoid speaking of it. But I think Wes's military service is one of the most compelling reasons to avoid jumping to conclusions. If his username is accurate he was responsible for risking his life to save his fellow soldiers. He has seen the devastating effect weapons can have on the human body and witnessed horrific things none of the commenters with their internet psychological diagnoses have.

I am also doubtful a trained, combat experienced soldier would need to shoot at a woman 4 times in order to kill her with a shotgun.

The ranting and odd behavior could be the result of a frustrated guy who feels the police have not done a bang up job of solving the murder of someone he cared about. (whatever of the details of their seemingly complicated relationship)

Unlike everyone else here I do not know what happened that afternoon.

BBM, Doctors and nurses kill people too and you do not know that any person writing comments has not served in the military.