MI MI - Alexandra Brueger, 31, Fatally Shot While Jogging, Rose Twp, 30 July 2016 #4

[FlossyMay]

Some of those shots could have been warning shots to try to get her to stop running.

 

[Shiressleuth]

While it is nice that the members respect the fact you are lawyer, your comment is unfortunate. How on earth can you claim Ally had no enemies ? Did you know her personally? That one bold, unfounded assertion taints everything else you said. If you begin with the premise that no one else could have killed her, you will of course blame the ex/sort of non ex. Hopefully your clients receive much better counsel than this.

I am not sure who killed her. Wes's behavior has not done him any favors. As a PR guy some of his conduct has made me cringe. I would have advised him to stay off the internet and be extraordinarily polite and respectful. When you are suspected of killing a woman any aggressive words, emails ect toward other can be particularly damaging.

It is not uncommon for those who served and were involved in combat to avoid speaking of it. But I think Wes's military service is one of the most compelling reasons to avoid jumping to conclusions. If his username is accurate he was responsible for risking his life to save his fellow soldiers. He has seen the devastating effect weapons can have on the human body and witnessed horrific things none of the commenters with their internet psychological diagnoses have.

I am also doubtful a trained, combat experienced soldier would need to shoot at a woman 4 times in order to kill her with a shotgun.

The ranting and odd behavior could be the result of a frustrated guy who feels the police have not done a bang up job of solving the murder of someone he cared about. (whatever of the details of their seemingly complicated relationship)

Unlike everyone else here I do not know what happened that afternoon.

Welcome to WS Grouper. I agree with your viewpoint.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Grouper: What's your current theory on who murdered Ally and why? (Based on the little we know).

I'm stuck on the point that as far as we know, the "white sedan" hasn't been caught on a street cam heading out of town? This is making me question if the Perp even *left town* after the incident. Really hung up on this point.

 

[Lilibet]

Grouper: What's your current theory on who murdered Ally and why? (Based on the little we know).

I'm stuck on the point that as far as we know, the "white sedan" hasn't been caught on a street cam heading out of town? This is making me question if the Perp even *left town* after the incident. Really hung up on this point.

The thing is, we really don’t know if the white sedan was driven by the perp and had any connection to Ally’s murder. LE is obviously “interested” in the report of the white car speeding on the street, but so far, we can’t connect it.

 

[The Gorgeous Grouper]

I think it was someone she had been intimate with. Maybe she saw someone else during her breakup and that chap was unhappy she was rekindling her romance with Wes ? Imessages are not as easy to trace as text messages so she could have deleted any conversation with the guy. Wes's Franz obsession never made sense because i believe by 31 a woman would know her father could be capable of killing her and she would have never moved back in with them.

It just seems very hard to believe that in two years the police could not make a case against the most obvious suspect.

There is just so much we do not know. Is there a boarding pass for the upcoming trip to see the old flame Nikki references ? Airfare to florida is cheap and the drive sucks. As a nurse, she could have afforded a plane ticket.

Grouper: What's your current theory on who murdered Ally and why? (Based on the little we know).

I'm stuck on the point that as far as we know, the "white sedan" hasn't been caught on a street cam heading out of town? This is making me question if the Perp even *left town* after the incident. Really hung up on this point.

 

[gitana1]

While it is nice that the members respect the fact you are lawyer, your comment is unfortunate. How on earth can you claim Ally had no enemies ? Did you know her personally? That one bold, unfounded assertion taints everything else you said. If you begin with the premise that no one else could have killed her, you will of course blame the ex/sort of non ex. Hopefully your clients receive much better counsel than this.

I am not sure who killed her. Wes's behavior has not done him any favors. As a PR guy some of his conduct has made me cringe. I would have advised him to stay off the internet and be extraordinarily polite and respectful. When you are suspected of killing a woman any aggressive words, emails ect toward other can be particularly damaging.

It is not uncommon for those who served and were involved in combat to avoid speaking of it. But I think Wes's military service is one of the most compelling reasons to avoid jumping to conclusions. If his username is accurate he was responsible for risking his life to save his fellow soldiers. He has seen the devastating effect weapons can have on the human body and witnessed horrific things none of the commenters with their internet psychological diagnoses have.

I am also doubtful a trained, combat experienced soldier would need to shoot at a woman 4 times in order to kill her with a shotgun.

The ranting and odd behavior could be the result of a frustrated guy who feels the police have not done a bang up job of solving the murder of someone he cared about. (whatever of the details of their seemingly complicated relationship)

Unlike everyone else here I do not know what happened that afternoon.

This is not counsel. Counsel is legal advice.

Her parents have stated she has no enemies. No one has stepped forward, not LE nor any family or friends who've paid tribute to her to state she had any issues with anyone...except Wes.

There is zero evidence of any enemies. If such surfaces, of course that could change things.

Of course the fact that she had no known enemies doesn't mean "no one else could have killed her". That's illogical and not what I've stated. In fact, I've discussed the possibility of random/spree type killer.

You see a list of various facts/evidence, creates a picture when viewed as a whole. These are all separate factors that when combined, not isolated as you've attempted to do, tend to show whether guilt is more likely or not.

And regardless of whether or not she had an enemy no one knew about (other than Wes) it certainly doesn't negate the list of other facts that I and others have provided.

In my years litigating and observing these cases and persons of interest and suspects in missing persons and murder cases, never have I seen an innocent person react with the narcissistic rage of this suspect in relation to such accusations. That is despite incredible pressure and horrible accusations.

In addition, overkill is typical of initiate partner violence. The manner of her death is likely a major key to LE that the murderer was intimately known to her. The murderer's possible ability to kill more effficiently would be irrelevant in such a situation as the manner of killing is based on emotion, not professionalism:

"Overkill usually is personal, with anger as the common underlying drive."
Forensics: Profiling the Perpetrator - dummies

Finally, I work with combat veterans, mostly in domestic violence defense cases. It is de riguer these days for malicious exes to falsely accuse these (mostly) men of violent PTSD in order to gain an edge in child custody, as in my state, a finding of domestic violence creates a presumption against sole or joint physical or legal child custody for the perpetrator.

I have worked a lot of these cases because I offer half price discounts to active military members and combat veterans.

Narcissistic rage is not and has not been a symptom of PTSD. Mostly what I have seen is depression, high anxiety, and vulnerability to emotional manipulation. While displays of anger can certainly be a manifestation of hyper arousal and anxiety, it tends to be displayed in a more impulsive and less imperious manner than the rage we've seen from the suspect in this case. And it has no aspects of narcissism. Unless the person with PTSD already was a narcissist.

It is rather insulting to those who've served to try to attribute the delusional and controlling narcissism of the suspect in this case to the mental effects of combat.

 

[gitana1]

Some of those shots could have been warning shots to try to get her to stop running.

Or just manifestations of intense, personal rage.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Mystery surrounds Oakland County jogger's shooting death

This article has been posted before but I am posting so you don't need to ask for it regarding my comments below.

This was the day after the murder and LE are saying they only want tips about a white or light coloured car.

1. Why did they say that?

2. Has it prevented tips being called in because of this?

3. Has it harmed the investigation ?

4. Did they correct or change this?

5. Would it prevent a tipster calling it in if their suspect drove a different colour car or truck?

This seems a big mistake on LE's part IMO.

 

[Lilibet]

While it is nice that the members respect the fact you are lawyer, your comment is unfortunate. How on earth can you claim Ally had no enemies ? Did you know her personally? That one bold, unfounded assertion taints everything else you said. If you begin with the premise that no one else could have killed her, you will of course blame the ex/sort of non ex. Hopefully your clients receive much better counsel than this.

<Respectfully snipped for focus>

With all due respect, gitana took the claim that Ally had no enemies from an early post by Wes, before he started accusing her Dad of killing her. Obviously, that’s not proof that she had no enemies, since Wes has been known to lie, and maybe he didn’t know. But the assertion was not “unfounded” and while it may have been better to word it “no known enemies” I think it’s rather extreme to say that it “taints” everything else gitana said and to boldly impugn her professional abilities in the process.

His words:

I know anytime something tragic happens to someone all their friends and family say, "They were an amazing and kind person, they never had any enemies or got in any trouble at all"... but in Ally's case this really is true. She was quite and shy, only had a handful of very close friends. If she was having some kind of issues with someone she would have told us... either me, her mom, her girlfriends, she would have brought it up to one of us.

MI - Alexandra Brueger, 31, fatally shot while jogging, Rose Twp, 30 July 2016

 

[Spellbound]

Mystery surrounds Oakland County jogger's shooting death

that's a very early article --- what was your point for just posting the link? Is there something you wanted us to specifically see? It does help when we give links to give a general description of what it goes to.
Thank you

 

[rosesfromangels]

Gitana, you are amazing. We are blessed to have you here.

 

[Shiressleuth]

that's a very early article --- what was your point for just posting the link? Is there something you wanted us to specifically see? It does help when we give links to give a general description of what it goes to.
Thank you

System very slow today (1700 users). If I don't post bit by bit then the system loses the post or kicks me off. Have added to my post the reasons for posting. LE also stated in one of the early articles, that a lot of hunting was done in that area and gunshots were common so could it even have been a hunting accident - would explain the missed shots .

 

[Shiressleuth]

This is not counsel. Counsel is legal advice.

Her parents have stated she has no enemies. No one has stepped forward, not LE nor any family or friends who've paid tribute to her to state she had any issues with anyone...except Wes.

There is zero evidence of any enemies. If such surfaces, of course that could change things.

Of course the fact that she had no known enemies doesn't mean "no one else could have killed her". That's illogical and not what I've stated. In fact, I've discussed the possibility of random/spree type killer.

You see a list of various facts/evidence, creates a picture when viewed as a whole. These are all separate factors that when combined, not isolated as you've attempted to do, tend to show whether guilt is more likely or not.

And regardless of whether or not she had an enemy no one knew about (other than Wes) it certainly doesn't negate the list of other facts that I and others have provided.

In my years litigating and observing these cases and persons of interest and suspects in missing persons and murder cases, never have I seen an innocent person react with the narcissistic rage of this suspect in relation to such accusations. That is despite incredible pressure and horrible accusations.

In addition, overkill is typical of initiate partner violence. The manner of her death is likely a major key to LE that the murderer was intimately known to her. The murderer's possible ability to kill more effficiently would be irrelevant in such a situation as the manner of killing is based on emotion, not professionalism:

"Overkill usually is personal, with anger as the common underlying drive."
Forensics: Profiling the Perpetrator - dummies

Finally, I work with combat veterans, mostly in domestic violence defense cases. It is de riguer these days for malicious exes to falsely accuse these (mostly) men of violent PTSD in order to gain an edge in child custody, as in my state, a finding of domestic violence creates a presumption against sole or joint physical or legal child custody for the perpetrator.

I have worked a lot of these cases because I offer half price discounts to active military members and combat veterans.

Narcissistic rage is not and has not been a symptom of PTSD. Mostly what I have seen is depression, high anxiety, and vulnerability to emotional manipulation. While displays of anger can certainly be a manifestation of hyper arousal and anxiety, it tends to be displayed in a more impulsive and less imperious manner than the rage we've seen from the suspect in this case. And it has no aspects of narcissism. Unless the person with PTSD already was a narcissist.

It is rather insulting to those who've served to try to attribute the delusional and controlling narcissism of the suspect in this case to the mental effects of combat.

How do we know it is narcissistic rage? It could be rage that the killer has not been caught, grief rage or rage he is being wrongly accused or has been lied to or set up by LE. Yes he's mad, but mainly at people he has confided in. MOO.

Eta. What issues did she have with W? Parents said it was amicable.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Shire: I hope people wouldn't be hunting so close to residences?

 

[rosesfromangels]

CDC: Half Of All Female Homicide Victims Are Killed By Intimate Partners

A good article on the statistics associated with female murder victims. Apologies if this is a repost. One thing I didn't know, and want to explore, is that 10% of the 50% of female victims who knew their killer had a prior violent attack by the Perp.

It's been stated repeatedly that Ally had no enemies, but that doesn't mean she didn't have an abuser. Do we know if her colleagues, friends, or parents reported seeing bruises or unexplained injuries on Ally?

 

[Audrey Horne]

Totally disagree. He demonstrated his rage and inability to control himself by screaming at, cursing, ordering around, and making other demands of members and mods here who didn't toe his line. He made open, repeated threats to people for public view. After being banned for this threatening behavior, he made a new user name, immediately resuming his unhinged behavior. Apparently he can't or won't overcome his obsessive need to control others.

Considering the fact that he behaves that way to strangers (keeping in mind he's online, having time to pause and reflect before showing his emotional reaction) over such minor "insults" to his narcissistic ego, it's pretty easy to imagine how he might respond in real life when people he wants to control don't fall in line. He is a terrifying individual. Whether he did this or not, poor Ally was wise to TRY to get away from him. But I don't think she had much of a chance, sadly. Like Nicole Brown.

 

[bears10]

Shire: I hope people wouldn't be hunting so close to residences?

I think what was said about hunting is that some residents ignored the gunshots because people hunt in the area so they figured it was gunfire from hunters.

 

[Jennifer17]

How do we know it is narcissistic rage? It could be rage that the killer has not been caught, grief rage or rage he is being wrongly accused or has been lied to or set up by LE. Yes he's mad, but mainly at people he has confided in. MOO.

BBM. And any of us, who questioned his theory of events and perps. And then we have his lies.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Shire: I hope people wouldn't be hunting so close to residences?

Me too but where she died was adjacent to a 600 acre county park which allows shooting I understand and the other side of the road there are farms and an equestrian centre.

(I previously posted the link to the park info )

 

[Jennifer17]

Me too but where she died was adjacent to a 600 acre county park which allows shooting I understand and the other side of the road there are farms and an equestrian centre.

Why would she be running into a yard and was shot in the back if it was an accidental shooting? And it may have been an amicable breakup until he heard about the Florida trip.