MI MI - Alexandra Brueger, 31, Fatally Shot While Jogging, Rose Twp, 30 July 2016 #4

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Midge Montana said:
While some of us may have vast experience, to my knowledge none of us have ever had professional psychiatric contact with said subject. I don't think most professionals I have seen on here have diagnosed anyone, suspect or not, without professionally evaluating them, in a professional setting. And they shouldn't, obviously.
The confusion comes because people brought up Franz's possible PTSD and it was (rightly) contested as we just don't know if he indeed was diagnosed or not. Some things pointed toward a possibility, just as Wes's behavior might point toward a disorder or not.
I have seen in other cases that labeling a person with a diagnosis is a BIG no-no, as it should be of course. I wondered why it wasn't being called out on one side as it was the other, that's all.

To be crystal clear, I don't know who killed her. I do have PLENTY of experience living with a PTSD-ridden Veteran, so I imagine my thinking may be swayed one way or another, as all of ours might be if we have personal experience with dynamics similar to any case we are reading about. Even so, I really can't say if Franz has PTSD or if Wes has any disorder either.

I'm still wondering about some kind of gang initiation myself. *shrug*
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I certainly appreciate your input, Midge and I will happily abide by whatever the mods decide if it comes to that. I wasn’t here for the PTSD discussion, so I can’t speak to that.

All I know is that there are reputable sites online that help people recognize narcissistic behavior so they can avoid getting entangled with someone with those traits. They aren’t diagnosing, but just pointing out recognizable traits. Of course, there are shades of narcissism on a spectrum ranging all the way to “malignant” ones who can be extremely harmful. It’s true, we have no idea whether Wes has any of these traits, but his intense rage on this thread is typical of this personality at its worst. And IMO it’s not unreasonable to have concerns about that, label or no label.
 
Midge Montana said:
While some of us may have vast experience, to my knowledge none of us have ever had professional psychiatric contact with said subject. I don't think most professionals I have seen on here have diagnosed anyone, suspect or not, without professionally evaluating them, in a professional setting. And they shouldn't, obviously.
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RSBM - I completely agree with this. Even if someone here is a psychiatrist it's difficult to diagnose someone over the internet based on a few exchanges. Like you said what is true for Franz is true for Wes and others. IMO Wes is self-centered and very angry, lashing out and making demands, but I wouldn't attempt to check off symptoms in the DSM-V. Another problem with that is people will go to what they know (as in "He reminds me of someone I knew who had NPD") and look at those symptoms in a sort of confirmation bias.

All of this can lead to more misunderstandings, greater stigma, and can hurt people who do have those illnesses. I wish people were more careful when they blame crime and bad behavior on what they assume is mental illness.

I'm including these not to diagnose anyone but to show how it's impossible to diagnose a stranger, or even attempt to do so, and how much information even the professionals need.

PTSD
When the symptoms* last more than a month, seriously affect one’s ability to function, and are not due to substance use, medical illness, or anything except the event itself, they might be PTSD. Some people with PTSD don’t show any symptoms for weeks or months. PTSD is often accompanied by depression, substance abuse, or one or more of the other anxiety disorders.
*Very specific, observable symptoms no one would be able to observe via the internet.

Symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder
In order for a person to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) they must meet five or more of the following symptoms:
  • Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
  • Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
  • Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
  • Requires excessive admiration
  • Has a very strong sense of entitlement, e.g., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
  • Is exploitative of others, e.g., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
  • Lacks empathy, e.g., is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
  • Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
  • Regularly shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
 
bluesneakers said:
All of this can lead to more misunderstandings, greater stigma, and can hurt people who do have those illnesses. I wish people were more careful when they blame crime and bad behavior on what they assume is mental illness.
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Thank you for saying this @bluesneakers !!! It's beyond important...
 
BetteDavisEyes said:
While not specific for 2016, here's a list of typical hunting seasons in Michigan.
DNR - Season Information

The month of July is wild turkey hunting season. We've had wild turkeys in our subdivision, so it's not out of the realm of possibility that someone was shooting at a wild turkey in the rural area where Ally ran. Smaller animals can be taken any time as long as the "hunter" has a valid MI hunting license.
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Yikes! Can they shoot that close to houses? But didn’t LE find four shells near Ally? That indicates to me that someone must have been aiming at her and I can’t imagine they mistook her for a wild turkey. :mad:
 
Lilibet said:
Yikes! Can they shoot that close to houses? But didn’t LE find four shells near Ally? That indicates to me that someone must have been aiming at her and I can’t imagine they mistook her for a wild turkey. :mad:
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I would imagine that LE was at the very least able to definitely rule out an accidental shooting from a hunter. No?

ETA- from my limited understanding, being shot by a shot gun versus a rifle that is typically used for hunting, the proximity is much closer which makes an accident less likely.
 
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My opinion is that the only suspect in this case, who has repeatedly shown his volatile nature on these threads, in all his various permutations, murdered Ally.

For the reasons I've stated, he's the best and only candidate thus far. The killing doesn't have the hallmarks of sexual assault motivated murders of female joggers that we've seen, and the multiple shots don't fit most random spree-type shootings.

LE thinks she knew her attacker and that makes the possibility of this being intimate partner violence much higher.

My opinion on this matter is going to highly agitate Wes. We've seen how he reacts when people don't accept his protestations of innocence.

So I expect more and more insults that will build to imperious demands and threats.

But that is not going to stop me from expressing my opinion and I doubt that's going to stop anyone else from expressing their opinions on here either.

It does make things a bit more interesting on the threads, however.
 
rosesfromangels said:
Let's get back to the gun. If you were going to gun someone down premeditated, would you choose a *shotgun* to do so?
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From what I understand, it’s not whether or not you use a shotgun that makes it premeditated, a gun with a bullet is a gun with a bullet. However, the idea of accidental is less likely with a buckshot, because you need to be closer for buckshot round to be effective. If the shotgun round was a slug, you could shoot from further away, but still not likely an accident.

This is how my husband explained it to me. Hope it makes sense!
 
rosesfromangels said:
Let's get back to the gun. If you were going to gun someone down premeditated, would you choose a *shotgun* to do so?
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I don't know. But just google "shotgun murder" and you'll see how often they're used.

Maybe that's what was available. Maybe they felt that expressed their rage more. Who knows?
 
jackiejack35 said:
From what I understand, it’s not whether or not you use a shotgun that makes it premeditated, a gun with a bullet is a gun with a bullet. However, the idea of accidental is less likely with a buckshot, because you need to be closer for buckshot round to be effective. If the shotgun round was a slug, you could shoot from further away, but still not likely an accident.
This is how my husband expplanied it to me. Hope it makes sense!
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Yes it does make sense. I'm just wondering why they used a shotgun. I'm speculating whether a shotgun suggests more spur of the moment vs. drive across town hunting her down. It just seems like a shotgun wouldn't be the weapon a Perp would use in these circumstances. But then again if they are nuts, all bets are rationale is off the table.
 
gitana1 said:
I don't know. But just google "shotgun murder" and you'll see how often they're used.

Maybe that's what was available. Maybe they felt that expressed their rage more. Who knows?
Click to expand...

If that’s the gun available, then it’s what you use. From what I’ve learned about a shotgun, accidently shooting someone from a distance is unlikely.
 
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