MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #2

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
There was a case here sometime in the last year I think, where a poi claimed in interviews that they passed a lie detector test. They were later arrested and it came out that they actually didn't pass the lie detector test. I can't remember if it was inconclusive or an outright fail.

Does anyone know what case I am thinking of? I remember wondering why the police didn't contradict the person's claims to have passed. Are police allowed to release lie detector test results?
I don't know which specific case you're talking about, but it's not uncommon for a POI to make false claims about polygraph results. LE will release as much or as little information as they feel is necessary to run an effective investigation.
 
Have other family members, i.e. Kim, Jennifer, submitted to polygraphs?
 
As this case develops further, and as information can be shared, I will find it revealing to know more about the childhood and past of the POI. While not a perfect science, there are some very specific characteristics common to those who offend in the manner of Julia's attack. And, there are generally plenty of precursors and a pattern of behavior according to criminal psychologists.

I am not a profiler or a criminal psychologist, so my observations are mere conjecture. That said, the theme of control and silencing seems to fit this scenario. We know that Julia has been described as a vocal communicator and self assured. For anyone with control issues, this type of female can be an affront to their authority. Was this the general cause for the conflict between Julia and her stepfather? His control issues and her unwillingness to comply?

And again, I go back to the theme of silence. Julia was a communicator, a communications major, and she was "silenced". What did she know that had to be silenced?

Editing and adding to my post. The mother would know if this post rings true. She would have, most likely, experienced some of these scary controlling behaviors herself. Although, it is more likely that there is a family scapegoat. In this case, it sounds like it was Julia, whose "willfull" behavior was problematic to the POI. Julia has been described as being incredibly close to her beloved twin. If she left her twin behind to go live with her Grandmother, it had to have been for a very compelling reason. And why didn't Jennifer go with her? Why did the mother let her go live with the grandmother? Letting your child go live with someone else is a very big, and dramatic decision....
 
^ Good points, rosesfromangels, and I would add that journalists/reporters, especially students, spend a lot of time doing research in a particular area or topic. Perhaps Julia was exploring an issue that led her in directions that might have exposed people who didn't want certain things known. :moo:
 
@trojan1966

timeline:
The precise timeline of the day/night of the murder is not yet completely clear to me. Do you have more details? Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I have
understood so far is that Julia left her work around 5pm, then she talked with Jennifer on the phone and later texted. Do you know what time she spoke
with Jennifer, and what time she texted? Do we know whether Julia went home directly? Did she eat dinner at home or somewhere else?

crime scene: What was the "unnatural" position that Julia was found in? Did her bed look like it had been used? How was the room in disarray?
Like someone had been looking for something?

Any more details that you can or are allowed to give would be welcome. Were you told by LE not to disclose certain details? (In that case, of course, you shouldn't.)
The crime scene seems so unusual that it should give some information about the identity and the motive of the murder.

As far as I know, Julia went straight home from work with possibly a stop at a convenience store to pick up some items. I believe she talked with Jennifer early in the evening and later sent her a phone application about 10:30 PM. Where she ate, I don't know. Concerning the apartment, all I know is what you seem to know that has been released to the media by LE. The room was in disarray but as far as I know nothing was stolen.
 
Have other family members, i.e. Kim, Jennifer, submitted to polygraphs?

I don't believe so but I'm not 100% sure. If they did, I would think LE would have said something. I do know that some of Julia's friends and even recent "dates" were given polygraph tests as part of the investigation.
 
As this case develops further, and as information can be shared, I will find it revealing to know more about the childhood and past of the POI. While not a perfect science, there are some very specific characteristics common to those who offend in the manner of Julia's attack. And, there are generally plenty of precursors and a pattern of behavior according to criminal psychologists.

I am not a profiler or a criminal psychologist, so my observations are mere conjecture. That said, the theme of control and silencing seems to fit this scenario. We know that Julia has been described as a vocal communicator and self assured. For anyone with control issues, this type of female can be an affront to their authority. Was this the general cause for the conflict between Julia and her stepfather? His control issues and her unwillingness to comply?

And again, I go back to the theme of silence. Julia was a communicator, a communications major, and she was "silenced". What did she know that had to be silenced?

Editing and adding to my post. The mother would know if this post rings true. She would have, most likely, experienced some of these scary controlling behaviors herself. Although, it is more likely that there is a family scapegoat. In this case, it sounds like it was Julia, whose "willfull" behavior was problematic to the POI. Julia has been described as being incredibly close to her beloved twin. If she left her twin behind to go live with her Grandmother, it had to have been for a very compelling reason. And why didn't Jennifer go with her? Why did the mother let her go live with the grandmother? Letting your child go live with someone else is a very big, and dramatic decision....

First, your comments about the POI being a person who is a "controller" is spot on. He loves to control everything that goes on. Now, concerning Julia moving out of their home, she didn't really "leave" Jennifer as Jennifer was attending EMU and living in a dorm on campus. Jennifer was a real go-getter for her studies in college, thus she entered EMU a full year before Julia did. Jennifer graduated from EMU in April 2012. Julia had been at EMU for Jennifer's last school year. Jennifer lived on campus and Julia lived in that apartment with different roommates than the two she had when school started again in Sept 2012.
Yes, of the two sisters, Julia was the more vocal one and did not hesitate to "stand up" for anyone or anything if she felt it was right to do so. I do believe the fact that her step father's "control issues" played an important part in her deciding to move out of the house and move in with grandma. Jennifer moved back into the house after she graduated (April 2012) for quite a while. She lived there when Julia was murdered. She has said to the media that her father (POI) was there when she went to bed and he was there the next day when she got up. I do not know for a fact if she has made a formal statement to LE concerning the time in question.
 
As this case develops further, and as information can be shared, I will find it revealing to know more about the childhood and past of the POI. While not a perfect science, there are some very specific characteristics common to those who offend in the manner of Julia's attack. And, there are generally plenty of precursors and a pattern of behavior according to criminal psychologists.
But one of the problems I am having is that I do not really know what the "manner of Julia's attack" is. This part is still mysterious. For example, it is not clear to me
whether the crime was premeditated or more impulsive.

I am not a profiler or a criminal psychologist, so my observations are mere conjecture. That said, the theme of control and silencing seems to fit this scenario. We know that Julia has been described as a vocal communicator and self assured. For anyone with control issues, this type of female can be an affront to their authority. Was this the general cause for the conflict between Julia and her stepfather? His control issues and her unwillingness to comply?
This may be the case, but his "control issues" might be exaggerated. I can imagine that a father is protective of his daughters and that he is controlling to some extend. I am
not sure if he is a "control freak" as the grandmother stated. Are there any example that would justify calling him a control freak? I don't know. But have not yet heard of
any such behavior.

And again, I go back to the theme of silence. Julia was a communicator, a communications major, and she was "silenced". What did she know that had to be silenced?
Of course we do not know if silencing was the motive for the crime. And if it was the motive, we still don't know who did it. It all depends on what the information
was that had to be silenced.
Editing and adding to my post. The mother would know if this post rings true. She would have, most likely, experienced some of these scary controlling behaviors herself. Although, it is more likely that there is a family scapegoat. In this case, it sounds like it was Julia, whose "willfull" behavior was problematic to the POI. Julia has been described as being incredibly close to her beloved twin. If she left her twin behind to go live with her Grandmother, it had to have been for a very compelling reason. And why didn't Jennifer go with her? Why did the mother let her go live with the grandmother? Letting your child go live with someone else is a very big, and dramatic decision....

I don't find this so dramatic. Julia lived on campus most of the time. I imagine that one of the reasons that she stayed in her Grandma's house was
that there was not much space in JT's house. According to some real estate websites, the house has 2 bedrooms and 1 bathroom, 900 square feet.
That is not much space for 5 people IMO. There certainly would not be a lot of privacy. Grandma just lives by herself as far as I know (?), and lives closeby.

But you raise some interesting questions. I was also wondering about the relationships in the family. It seems that before Julia's death, JT and his
mother-in-law at least had a cordial relationship. Is this correct? Some article called Jennifer "estranged" from her grandmother. Has she been estranged
since Julia's death or was she already estranged before that? If there was some serious conflict between JT and his mother-in-law, how did this effect
the relationship between the two twins?
 
If JT is controlling, does he also exhibit control over his wife, Kim? Perhaps Julia was outspoken about the way JT treated her mother and expressed displeasure about it.
 
If JT is controlling, does he also exhibit control over his wife, Kim? Perhaps Julia was outspoken about the way the JT treated her mother and expressed displeasure about it.

I have wondered how much of the mother's support of the POI has been done out of fear. I am getting a very uncomfortable feeling about the puzzle pieces that are coming together. Control freak, martial arts....that sounds like a dangerous combo in itself given the circumstances of this case.
 
First, your comments about the POI being a person who is a "controller" is spot on. He loves to control everything that goes on. Now, concerning Julia moving out of their home, she didn't really "leave" Jennifer as Jennifer was attending EMU and living in a dorm on campus. Jennifer was a real go-getter for her studies in college, thus she entered EMU a full year before Julia did. Jennifer graduated from EMU in April 2012. Julia had been at EMU for Jennifer's last school year. Jennifer lived on campus and Julia lived in that apartment with different roommates than the two she had when school started again in Sept 2012.
Yes, of the two sisters, Julia was the more vocal one and did not hesitate to "stand up" for anyone or anything if she felt it was right to do so. I do believe the fact that her step father's "control issues" played an important part in her deciding to move out of the house and move in with grandma. Jennifer moved back into the house after she graduated (April 2012) for quite a while. She lived there when Julia was murdered. She has said to the media that her father (POI) was there when she went to bed and he was there the next day when she got up. I do not know for a fact if she has made a formal statement to LE concerning the time in question.

Thank you, Trojan1966, for this look into their lives. I admire your clear exposition of it.

You mentioned that Kim told you she asked a friend for a ride to Julia's, that awful night you heard the horrible news. Where was Jim? Did they have one car? Why did they need a ride from somebody other than Jim. Then Jim met them there or back at the house when you called? Sorry if these questions are out of place or not worth answers right now. Don't feel you need to answer directly.

I very much appreciate your input here. Other WSers here are without an ounce of hyperbole the best.
 
I don't believe so but I'm not 100% sure. If they did, I would think LE would have said something. I do know that some of Julia's friends and even recent "dates" were given polygraph tests as part of the investigation.

Ann Arbor News said:
Walker said investigators have interviewed more than 100 individuals for possible leads. Jennifer told AnnArbor.com that each individual took a polygraph test.
http://www.annarbor.com/news/ypsila...-confirms-julia-niswender-drowned-in-bathtub/

I presume that Jennifer counts herself here as one of more than 100 individuals.
 
black_squirrel - As I stated ..... I have not heard LE talk about the lie detector tests, just someone else had mentioned to me (or as you say, posted on FB) that one was inconclusive. Of course, neither would be allowed in court as they are merely a "tool" used as part of an investigation. As far as I know, JT has not given LE any formal statements. remember, he "lawyered-up" five days after Julia's body was found. As far as JT's lawyer, remember he's working for JT and trust me, he has not been very cooperative with LE during the investigation. Anything JT has said has been said to the media or the press which is a far cry from a formal statement to LE. You can say anything you want to the press but lie to LE and you will be in much more trouble.
 
http://archive.freep.com/article/20...t-waiting-for-answers-justice-Julia-Niswender

This statement was made by Ypsilanti Police in April 2013. Since the POI did his polygraphs in February 2013, we can conclude that the POI did indeed pass the polygraph test
according to the Ypsilanti police.

You can believe this if you want. You can have your conclusions and I'll stick with mine. I believe they were generally referring to all tested people. An inconclusive polygraph isn't really a pass or a failure thus it is usually disregarded.
 
http://archive.freep.com/article/20...t-waiting-for-answers-justice-Julia-Niswender

This statement was made by Ypsilanti Police in April 2013. Since the POI did his polygraphs in February 2013, we can conclude that the POI did indeed pass the polygraph test
according to the Ypsilanti police.

Respectfully, I am not going to draw any conclusions on such a critical element of this case. I want to hear directly from LE. To the best of my knowledge, we have not heard from LE that Turnquist or any member of his family has passed a poly. I know his attorney has attempted to posture for him favorably*, but we need to hear the facts from LE. MOO.

*and sometimes I think we even see posts from a POI's "P.R. team" on these threads....
 
Thank you, Trojan1966, for this look into their lives. I admire your clear exposition of it.

You mentioned that Kim told you she asked a friend for a ride to Julia's, that awful night you heard the horrible news. Where was Jim? Did they have one car? Why did they need a ride from somebody other than Jim. Then Jim met them there or back at the house when you called? Sorry if these questions are out of place or not worth answers right now. Don't feel you need to answer directly.

I very much appreciate your input here. Other WSers here are without an ounce of hyperbole the best.

That night that Julia was found, Kim and Jennifer were playing darts (not knowing yet that Julia was dead) as they both are on a team for a local pub. They had a friend drive them from Monroe to Ypsilanti which is close to a 45 minute drive. JT was home with the youngest granddaughter (Madison) and Kim called him and said that basically she was headed to Ypsi to check on Julia. Jim and Madison then left Monroe in his truck and met up with everyone else near Julia's apartment. I believe Kim & Jennifer got there before JT did. Kim had called me around 9:15 PM while they were driving to Ypsi. Later, I received a call from her and JT that no grandparent wants to receive. All in all, that was a night that I hope no one ever has to go through. The rest of the early morning my wife and I spent packing, booking a flight and a rental car. We left FL and arrived in Detroit the following day in the early afternoon.
 
black_squirrel - Julia did not live on campus. The apartment complex is across the street from EMU and is considered off-campus. At the time Julia moved out, she shared a room with her younger sister and Jennifer was living on campus at EMU in a dorm. Grandma at that time had a much larger house and she did not live alone. She had our youngest daughter and son living with her plus an "extra" bedroom. Julia had a falling out with her parents - primarily JT - and asked grandma if she could move in. Grandma said yes and that's how she ended up there. Once she enrolled in EMU, when she returned home, she would stay at grandma's house. The fact that Julia moved in to grandma's house did not help the relationship between JT and her. Grandma has always stated that JT was too "strict and controlling" concerning the children. Jennifer has not had "problems" with grandma until this recent event concerning child *advertiser censored* charge against JT was starting to unfold. Prior to this, grandma has said all along that she suspected JT in Julia's death - and this suspicion was pretty much common knowledge within the family. Now, there is virtually no contact between Kim, Jennifer and Madison with grandma Rose. Kim's sister, Carrie, does not talk to Rose even though she still lives in Rose's house. Carrie tries to support her sister as she feels the whole family is lined up against them. My youngest son, Marcus, is trying to stay neutral as I've been trying to do myself. We will let the justice system do its job and abide by whatever the results are. All in all, I feel that I'm in a very tough spot but I'll wait and see what happens. Mending all the family ties, whatever the results, will be quite a process
 
Trojan, I just wanted to tell you that I'm sorry for your loss and thank you for sharing with us. You are so well written!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
123
Guests online
2,152
Total visitors
2,275

Forum statistics

Threads
601,323
Messages
18,122,743
Members
231,011
Latest member
sadiew85
Back
Top