MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #2

[rosesfromangels]

I wonder if there was only one key to that door that led to Julia's bedroom? If there was more then one key to her bedroom, did a family member have it?

That is an *excellent* question!

 

[4ist]

Doesn't this establish Julia's feelings for JT and their relationship within a month of her murder?

As strict of a disciplinarian that JT was as a step dad, I think that Julia really did just want to be loved by JT.

 

[4ist]

JT was scheduled to be onsite cleaning the day after Julia was found – later that afternoon I received a call from him telling me that he apologized for not arriving but that there had been a family emergency, and that he would be into the office in the following days to give a better explanation. The day JT arrived to my office he could not speak as he attempted to tell me what was occurring, he was shaking, and appeared to be in physical distress as he discussed the details.
In the weeks following the discovery of Julia he was on the property working. My initial conversations with him were that of a father who was in shock and grieving the loss of his child. As time went on there were repeated conversations about the case and how the family and JT were holding up. During these conversations JT reacted as any father would - on many occasions when speaking to JT he would become emotional – crying and having a hard time speaking.

As time progressed, JT all though continuing to mourn his daughter, did exactly what any parent would do who had been dealt the cards of being told his daughter had been murdered – He began to become agitated with the fact that more was not being done as far as the investigation – and as any parent would do – his anger that someone had done this to his daughter and that that person was still free. He wanted desperately to be able to comfort his other daughter’s and wife with the fact that although the Julia was gone – Justice would be served.
JT and I have had conversation’s in regards to Julia, his families loss and how they were coping, as well as details in regards to the case that have not been released to the public for obvious reasons. I have spoken to JT since he was placed on bail, as well as his family members and can tell you that my personal feelings about JT have not changed.
At no time did JT ever appear to be “putting on a front” or using “crocodile tears”, I believe that the tears and pain I saw were very real.

• During this time, I was also contacted by Ypsilanti Police department and have spoken to them on at least two occasions.
Obviously all of this is my personal opinion – and as always I welcome your questions.

You mention that JT would come to your office, did he clean your office? You mention that you have several degrees in Psychology, with JT possibly knowing that he might feel the need to talk with you. I am glad that you have met with LE on more then one occasion. With the Child *advertiser censored* charges hanging over JT's head, we wonder what he is doing for work? He had a cleaning business, that wasn't thriving according to close family member, and of course he can't be around children, so he probably isn't working at the Karate school. MiMommy, are you aware if he is still working anywhere?

 

[rosesfromangels]

As strict of a disciplinarian that JT was as a step dad, I think that Julia really did just want to be loved by JT.

Yes, every girl desperately wants a father figure in her life.
It sounds like things went wrong, and that's very sad.
I am of the personal opinion a step parent should leave discipline to the birth parent, and just focus on adding value; modeling good adult behavior, sage consultation etc.

 

[FindHG]

Yes, every girl desperately wants a father figure in her life.
It sounds like things went wrong, and that's very sad.
I am of the personal opinion a step parent should leave discipline to the birth parent, and just focus on adding value; modeling good adult behavior, sage consultation etc.

rosesfromangels, Jen may have an Electra Complex of sorts, playing the mother protector, symbiotic, not separating in a healthy manner, where as Julia had more of an individuation process, stronger will and personality, if not the same contrived control and discipline Jen seems to have internalized from Turnquist, in a situation with a somewhat hapless mom, who went from being cared for by her parents to being cared for by a domineering man, who may have been more interested in her daughters, on some level, it seems to me.

 

[Trojan1966]

Mimommy, I am very concerned with the youngest daughter's situation. She is having to "grow up" too quickly, facing some life circumstances that many adults never have to endure. Can you give me just a touch of how she is doing? You mentioned she has not seen her father (or are there supervised visits at all?). Is she all right, though sad, about that? I think her Mom and big sister will do their best to shield her from the most hurtful comments, but they have a way of slipping by us and getting to the children anyway. Does she talk about Julia? Some children appear to adjust somewhat easily, but hold a lot inside. Of course, none of this is any of my business, but I do care very much about the young children and their emotional well-being. I hope she will be all right. Any thoughts you can share?

My wife and I have worried about both Jennifer and M since Julia's death. We have constantly voiced our concerns to KT and recommend that everyone should seek some kind of counselling. KT's answer was that she wasn't taking M to any counselling because M said she won't talk to anyone. No sure if that's true or there is always the possibility that they are afraid of what M may tell a counselor! I hope that's not the reason, but with everyone lawyering up, they evidently don't want anyone talking to anyone outside the immediate family. Sorry to say, but since this child *advertiser censored* charges, I have lost contact with my two daughters and two granddaughters. They don't want to talk to me as they believe that I'm "against" JT. I'm not really against him, I just want the truth to be out and to have Justice for Julia! So, I have one dead granddaughter and two daughters and two granddaughters who treat me as if I'm dead. I still love all of them with all my heart but I can't seem to convince them of that. Just another reason why I don't get a good night's sleep anymore. One day this will all be over but healing the "wounds" that have been created within the family may never truly heal. I'll continue to pray each and every night for Justice for Julia.

 

[FindHG]

My wife and I have worried about both Jennifer and M since Julia's death. We have constantly voiced our concerns to KT and recommend that everyone should seek some kind of counselling. KT's answer was that she wasn't taking M to any counselling because M said she won't talk to anyone. No sure if that's true or there is always the possibility that they are afraid of what M may tell a counselor! I hope that's not the reason, but with everyone lawyering up, they evidently don't want anyone talking to anyone outside the immediate family. Sorry to say, but since this child *advertiser censored* charges, I have lost contact with my two daughters and two granddaughters. They don't want to talk to me as they believe that I'm "against" JT. I'm not really against him, I just want the truth to be out and to have Justice for Julia! So, I have one dead granddaughter and two daughters and two granddaughters who treat me as if I'm dead. I still love all of them with all my heart but I can't seem to convince them of that. Just another reason why I don't get a good night's sleep anymore. One day this will all be over but healing the "wounds" that have been created within the family may never truly heal. I'll continue to pray each and every night for Justice for Julia.

Hang in there, Trojan1966, things change and tend not go backwards as more information is revealed. Your concerns for your youngest grand-daughter besides heart wrenching are very real and I hope they do not fall on deaf ears. Is LE aware of the possibly delusional adults in the household are not looking after this child's mental health, like a helpless little pawn, considering her dad is charged with child *advertiser censored*?

 

[MIMOMMY]

Mimommy, I am very concerned with the youngest daughter's situation. She is having to "grow up" too quickly, facing some life circumstances that many adults never have to endure. Can you give me just a touch of how she is doing? You mentioned she has not seen her father (or are there supervised visits at all?). Is she all right, though sad, about that? I think her Mom and big sister will do their best to shield her from the most hurtful comments, but they have a way of slipping by us and getting to the children anyway. Does she talk about Julia? Some children appear to adjust somewhat easily, but hold a lot inside. Of course, none of this is any of my business, but I do care very much about the young children and their emotional well-being. I hope she will be all right. Any thoughts you can share?

From my conversations the youngest daughter is doing as well as can be expected considering everything she has been forced to accept at such a young age. I can tell you that she is extremely close to her direct relatives, and I'm sure the distance from dad - besides being in the public spotless (media has been restricted from harassing her by the courts) can not be healthy for anyone. Imagine going to school and being the girl from a small town who's sister was murdered - and now all of this.

I worry about her - as I do all of the family. But...a child should NEVER have to live what she has.

 

[MIMOMMY]

You mention that JT would come to your office, did he clean your office? You mention that you have several degrees in Psychology, with JT possibly knowing that he might feel the need to talk with you. I am glad that you have met with LE on more then one occasion. With the Child *advertiser censored* charges hanging over JT's head, we wonder what he is doing for work? He had a cleaning business, that wasn't thriving according to close family member, and of course he can't be around children, so he probably isn't working at the Karate school. MiMommy, are you aware if he is still working anywhere?

JT did not clean my office specifically but did clean common area's such as hallways, entrances, and vacant apartments. I am thankful that anyone feels like they can come to me - in fact my current co-workers and employees always laugh about the fact that people gravitate to me and tell me things that they would not normally just discuss. *I guess I'm in the right field of education huh?* When he would come in to talk to me it was sometimes for things as simple as getting a list of what needed to be done, letting me know he was on site, or to just sit and talk for a bit. My front office window during this time ALWAYS had Julia's poster in the front window - it was one of the last things I removed when I left for my transfer.

JT is currently not employed but I can tell you that he is actively looking for work as a way to support his family and the financial burden that all of this is taking on them. I know that there are at least 3 separate attorney's involved with different family members at this point.

 

[rosesfromangels]

My wife and I have worried about both Jennifer and M since Julia's death. We have constantly voiced our concerns to KT and recommend that everyone should seek some kind of counselling. KT's answer was that she wasn't taking M to any counselling because M said she won't talk to anyone. No sure if that's true or there is always the possibility that they are afraid of what M may tell a counselor! I hope that's not the reason, but with everyone lawyering up, they evidently don't want anyone talking to anyone outside the immediate family. Sorry to say, but since this child *advertiser censored* charges, I have lost contact with my two daughters and two granddaughters. They don't want to talk to me as they believe that I'm "against" JT. I'm not really against him, I just want the truth to be out and to have Justice for Julia! So, I have one dead granddaughter and two daughters and two granddaughters who treat me as if I'm dead. I still love all of them with all my heart but I can't seem to convince them of that. Just another reason why I don't get a good night's sleep anymore. One day this will all be over but healing the "wounds" that have been created within the family may never truly heal. I'll continue to pray each and every night for Justice for Julia.

One of the reasons I suggested your extended family go on the Dr. Phil show is that you would receive counseling as an entire family.
And, Julia's case could get some great exposure. Turnquist could go, or not, but I would hope Kim and Jennifer would.

This is one of the more complex and emotionally charged cases I have seen on Websleuths. Everyone is just falling apart, and it's understandable. A horrific crime was perpetrated upon your family, and it has put already strained family relationships beyond overload.

I am going to share my personal opinion as I see it, with love to all of you. (Trojan, Kim, Jennifer, Grandma Rose)

Trojan - you are the Head of your clan, and you are acting like a true man. You are speaking your truth, and standing by it. You have earned the respect and admiration of everyone on this forum. Do not doubt yourself.

Grandma Rose - I'm glad there are women like you in the world. Everyone on this thread respects your guts and willingness to stand tall when many are opposing you. Do not doubt yourself.

Kim & Jennifer - You are breaking all of our hearts. I can't even imagine the pain you have experienced, and the fear you must have. You are trying to hang on to the familiar because your world has become so unpredictable.
You need your parents Kim. Now more than ever. Please, please, please set aside your anger and accusations (all of you) and just love and support each other right now.

Someone murdered Julia, and someone murdered Chelsea Bruck. You need to be focused on taking care of each other and finding the killer(s), vs. playing lawyerup and coverup games with JT. (Whatever he is guilty of). Let him sort his woes out himself while you focus on justice for Julia. If you can't have a conversation about JT without an argument, then don't discuss him right now. Let LE deal with that situation, and you focus on coming together as a family.

Kim - you need your Mom and your Dad badly right now, and they need you. They are so worried about whoever killed Julia is still on the loose. Stay close to them and work together. This isn't about being "right", it's about being safe. You, and your daughters. God bless you Kim, you have a very tough situation on your hands, and you've got a lot of people praying for you.

As for me, I will continue to do research and work with all the other excellent people on this thread trying to help. We work well together, and are determined to help in whatever way we can.

My most sincere love and prayers directed to this family,
Roses

 

[Teche]

Roses, thanks button wasn't enough...wise words and beautifully spoken.

One of the reasons I suggested your extended family go on the Dr. Phil show is that you would receive counseling as an entire family.
And, Julia's case could get some great exposure. Turnquist could go, or not, but I would hope Kim and Jennifer would.

This is one of the more complex and emotionally charged cases I have seen on Websleuths. Everyone is just falling apart, and it's understandable. A horrific crime was perpetrated upon your family, and it has put already strained family relationships beyond overload.

I am going to share my personal opinion as I see it, with love to all of you. (Trojan, Kim, Jennifer, Grandma Rose)

Trojan - you are the Head of your clan, and you are acting like a true man. You are speaking your truth, and standing by it. You have earned the respect and admiration of everyone on this forum. Do not doubt yourself.

Grandma Rose - I'm glad there are women like you in the world. Everyone on this thread respects your guts and willingness to stand tall when many are opposing you. Do not doubt yourself.

Kim & Jennifer - You are breaking all of our hearts. I can't even imagine the pain you have experienced, and the fear you must have. You are trying to hang on to the familiar because your world has become so unpredictable.
You need your parents Kim. Now more than ever. Please, please, please set aside your anger and accusations (all of you) and just love and support each other right now.

Someone murdered Julia, and someone murdered Chelsea Bruck. You need to be focused on taking care of each other and finding the killer(s), vs. playing lawyerup and coverup games with JT. (Whatever he is guilty of). Let him sort his woes out himself while you focus on justice for Julia. If you can't have a conversation about JT without an argument, then don't discuss him right now. Let LE deal with that situation, and you focus on coming together as a family.

Kim - you need your Mom and your Dad badly right now, and they need you. They are so worried about whoever killed Julia is still on the loose. Stay close to them and work together. This isn't about being "right", it's about being safe. You, and your daughters. God bless you Kim, you have a very tough situation on your hands, and you've got a lot of people praying for you.

As for me, I will continue to do research and work with all the other excellent people on this thread trying to help. We work well together, and are determined to help in whatever way we can.

My most sincere love and prayers directed to this family,
Roses

 

[FindHG]

One of the reasons I suggested your extended family go on the Dr. Phil show is that you would receive counseling as an entire family.
And, Julia's case could get some great exposure. Turnquist could go, or not, but I would hope Kim and Jennifer would.

This is one of the more complex and emotionally charged cases I have seen on Websleuths. Everyone is just falling apart, and it's understandable. A horrific crime was perpetrated upon your family, and it has put already strained family relationships beyond overload.

I am going to share my personal opinion as I see it, with love to all of you. (Trojan, Kim, Jennifer, Grandma Rose)

Trojan - you are the Head of your clan, and you are acting like a true man. You are speaking your truth, and standing by it. You have earned the respect and admiration of everyone on this forum. Do not doubt yourself.

Grandma Rose - I'm glad there are women like you in the world. Everyone on this thread respects your guts and willingness to stand tall when many are opposing you. Do not doubt yourself.

Kim & Jennifer - You are breaking all of our hearts. I can't even imagine the pain you have experienced, and the fear you must have. You are trying to hang on to the familiar because your world has become so unpredictable.
You need your parents Kim. Now more than ever. Please, please, please set aside your anger and accusations (all of you) and just love and support each other right now.

Someone murdered Julia, and someone murdered Chelsea Bruck. You need to be focused on taking care of each other and finding the killer(s), vs. playing lawyerup and coverup games with JT. (Whatever he is guilty of). Let him sort his woes out himself while you focus on justice for Julia. If you can't have a conversation about JT without an argument, then don't discuss him right now. Let LE deal with that situation, and you focus on coming together as a family.

Kim - you need your Mom and your Dad badly right now, and they need you. They are so worried about whoever killed Julia is still on the loose. Stay close to them and work together. This isn't about being "right", it's about being safe. You, and your daughters. God bless you Kim, you have a very tough situation on your hands, and you've got a lot of people praying for you.

As for me, I will continue to do research and work with all the other excellent people on this thread trying to help. We work well together, and are determined to help in whatever way we can.

My most sincere love and prayers directed to this family,
Roses

Perfectly said, rosefromangels. Thank you for being a whirlwind with such a righteous twirl.

 

[4ist]

Yes, every girl desperately wants a father figure in her life.
It sounds like things went wrong, and that's very sad.
I am of the personal opinion a step parent should leave discipline to the birth parent, and just focus on adding value; modeling good adult behavior, sage consultation etc.

With the Kim N.T. giving birth to the twins when she was 14 years old, she was a young Mom. She lived at home with her family, which all helped with raising the twins. But the twins really were a pretty active and unruly. Which seemed to be a bit of a burden at times for Kim, as well as a lot of stress in the home due to Kim's parents separating then divorcing. It was a lot for all of the family, the Grandmother moved out, leaving Grandpa with his 4 kids and the twins to take care of. Kim was continuing in her studies at school and worked after school and on weekends. The twins became even more unruly and acted out of anger and misbehaved a lot, just needing attention and care, they really were not very pleasant to be around. Seemed everyone in the household, had a love /hate relationship with each other, they all fought a lot. By the time JT and Kim met, it was a very short time before they moved into a one room apt. at her parents home. The twins were thrilled, always wanting a DAD, Grandpa was great, but they really wanted a father, and Kim really wanted the all American dream, a 'family' of her own. From day one that JT moved in with Kim, JT pretty quickly, took on the role of disciplinarian. Kim and Jim moved out of their Dad's house and moved into an apt. together. From the very beginning, Jim certainly ruled the house, very strict with the twins, everyone in the family noticed it, if anyone ever mentioned anything to Kim about it, she would say "well the twins needed discipline" She pretty much took a back seat to raising the twins, worked long hours as she as done since I have known her. Which left the twins alone with their step dad JT a lot. During their time living at these apts., there was a report to Child Protective Services, I believe it came out most recently in the news again, for the report came from the Twins school, something that Julia had said at school, they felt needed to be reported to CPS. Funny thing is Kim swears she doesn't remember the incident.
Wasn't long, and Kim and Jim T., got married, May of 2001. Not long after they married, JT moved the family to Gaylord, Kim said, JT wanted to get away from Kim's family. While living there, Kim went to work for a Walmart I believe, she must of hated being away from Monroe, for she seemed to come home frequently to party and visit with family, leaving the twins with JT alone many times. For what ever reason, JT, decided to remove the bathroom door, when people asked why it was removed, he and Kim said 'the twins were taking to much time in the bathroom', they hung a curtain over the door way. I am sharing these stories, for I am coming in late on so many of these posts, and am not sure how much people actually know about the JT and Kim beginnings.

 

[4ist]

hmm, absolutely it means everything. You don't just announce distrust of all you know on SM haphazardly. Julia wasn't some goof teen venting, she understood the medium is the message, indeed it may have been ingrained in her in media studies.

I think as close as the twins were, that they did have their own personalities and with going to college, struck out to become their own person. With that also came some of their own personal 'secrets', not like when they were younger and shared everything openly with each other. I don't think towards the end that Jennifer was Julia's closest confidant. As for JT, he did treat Jennifer and Julia differently, so did Kim actually.

 

[4ist]

JT is living with a friend. He has not seen his youngest child, and obviously can not leave the state

Also, JT is not suppose to be around children under the age of 16, and he is not suppose to be on any computers.

 

[4ist]

Mimommy, I am very concerned with the youngest daughter's situation. She is having to "grow up" too quickly, facing some life circumstances that many adults never have to endure. Can you give me just a touch of how she is doing? You mentioned she has not seen her father (or are there supervised visits at all?). Is she all right, though sad, about that? I think her Mom and big sister will do their best to shield her from the most hurtful comments, but they have a way of slipping by us and getting to the children anyway. Does she talk about Julia? Some children appear to adjust somewhat easily, but hold a lot inside. Of course, none of this is any of my business, but I do care very much about the young children and their emotional well-being. I hope she will be all right. Any thoughts you can share?

We are all concerned about the 12 year old. Unfortunately, her parents have not sought counseling for her. And children at her school have been unkind about her Fathers' pending charges. She has been privy to so many adult conversations since she came into this world, and as Kim recently has said to us, "we don't baby our girls".

 

[rosesfromangels]

4,
Thank you for sharing this revealing and critical information. I am profoundly sad, and livid at the same time. Those poor girls.
it doesn't take a sleuth to figure out what was going on. Too bad the school report didn't result in removal of the twins from the home.
I pray that Kim and Jennifer can break out of the denial.

 

[FindHG]

With the Kim N.T. giving birth to the twins when she was 14 years old, she was a young Mom. She lived at home with her family, which all helped with raising the twins. But the twins really were a pretty active and unruly. Which seemed to be a bit of a burden at times for Kim, as well as a lot of stress in the home due to Kim's parents separating then divorcing. It was a lot for all of the family, the Grandmother moved out, leaving Grandpa with his 4 kids and the twins to take care of. Kim was continuing in her studies at school and worked after school and on weekends. The twins became even more unruly and acted out of anger and misbehaved a lot, just needing attention and care, they really were not very pleasant to be around. Seemed everyone in the household, had a love /hate relationship with each other, they all fought a lot. By the time JT and Kim met, it was a very short time before they moved into a one room apt. at her parents home. The twins were thrilled, always wanting a DAD, Grandpa was great, but they really wanted a father, and Kim really wanted the all American dream, a 'family' of her own. From day one that JT moved in with Kim, JT pretty quickly, took on the role of disciplinarian. Kim and Jim moved out of their Dad's house and moved into an apt. together. From the very beginning, Jim certainly ruled the house, very strict with the twins, everyone in the family noticed it, if anyone ever mentioned anything to Kim about it, she would say "well the twins needed discipline" She pretty much took a back seat to raising the twins, worked long hours as she as done since I have known her. Which left the twins alone with their step dad JT a lot. During their time living at these apts., there was a report to Child Protective Services, I believe it came out most recently in the news again, for the report came from the Twins school, something that Julia had said at school, they felt needed to be reported to CPS. Funny thing is Kim swears she doesn't remember the incident.
Wasn't long, and Kim and Jim T., got married, May of 2001. Not long after they married, JT moved the family to Gaylord, Kim said, JT wanted to get away from Kim's family. While living there, Kim went to work for a Walmart I believe, she must of hated being away from Monroe, for she seemed to come home frequently to party and visit with family, leaving the twins with JT alone many times. For what ever reason, JT, decided to remove the bathroom door, when people asked why it was removed, he and Kim said 'the twins were taking to much time in the bathroom', they hung a curtain over the door way. I am sharing these stories, for I am coming in late on so many of these posts, and am not sure how much people actually know about the JT and Kim beginnings.

I think as close as the twins were, that they did have their own personalities and with going to college, struck out to become their own person. With that also came some of their own personal 'secrets', not like when they were younger and shared everything openly with each other. I don't think towards the end that Jennifer was Julia's closest confidant. As for JT, he did treat Jennifer and Julia differently, so did Kim actually.

Thank you for this precious insight, 4ist. Julia seems to have matured her way out of a mindset and it may have cost her her life by somebody who took the trouble to leave her there almost reverentially, it seems to me.

We are all concerned about the 12 year old. Unfortunately, her parents have not sought counseling for her. And children at her school have been unkind about her Fathers' pending charges. She has been privy to so many adult conversations since she came into this world, and as Kim recently has said to us, "we don't baby our girls".

I hope LE and CPS are aware of the situation, as things are bound to become more unraveled as the court date approaches. The circumstances are past what Turnquist may be able to salvage based on appearances of support, it seems apparent or probable at least, as any such support may indeed hurt those who offer it in backlash. I hope there are those who are watching out for the youngest most vulnerable and who do have her and not Turnquist's interest at heart.

 

[Trojan1966]

Wow, there was quite a discussion last night. All the info being shared will help everyone get a much better and clearer picture of what happened in the past and hopefully help us in finding the perpetrator. Thanks for all your help, ideas and comments. As you can tell, another restless night for me, I'm kinda getting used to that. One day we will have Justice for Julia!

 

[Spellbound]

My wife and I have worried about both Jennifer and M since Julia's death. We have constantly voiced our concerns to KT and recommend that everyone should seek some kind of counselling. KT's answer was that she wasn't taking M to any counselling because M said she won't talk to anyone. No sure if that's true or there is always the possibility that they are afraid of what M may tell a counselor! I hope that's not the reason, but with everyone lawyering up, they evidently don't want anyone talking to anyone outside the immediate family. Sorry to say, but since this child *advertiser censored* charges, I have lost contact with my two daughters and two granddaughters. They don't want to talk to me as they believe that I'm "against" JT. I'm not really against him, I just want the truth to be out and to have Justice for Julia! So, I have one dead granddaughter and two daughters and two granddaughters who treat me as if I'm dead. I still love all of them with all my heart but I can't seem to convince them of that. Just another reason why I don't get a good night's sleep anymore. One day this will all be over but healing the "wounds" that have been created within the family may never truly heal. I'll continue to pray each and every night for Justice for Julia.

Thank you for this, Trojan. That does concern me. M should have had a professional to talk with immediately after this happened .... speaking from my own experience with a similar situation when I was nearly her age and deaths (both "normal" and suicide and murder, all in my close relationships) were new to me. I have held those feelings inside for longer than I care to say.

I am also saddened to think your relationship with all your girls may be broken beyond repair. Going through something similar here, unfortunately.

My heart is heavy, just knowing how you are hurting. Bless you for being the devoted man you are.