MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #2

[hockeymom4]

No, this is what MIMOMMY said:

"There are no reports of water in her lungs, therefore we can assume she was not drowned."
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Ypsilanti-Dec-2012-2&p=11569843#post11569843

Water or no water in her lungs, cause of death was ruled "asphyxiation associated with drowning". She was alive when submerged in the water.


"She was not deceased (beforehand,") Yuhas said. "It's never been determined (if she was unconscious.) But, she was definitely asphyxiated and then drowned."
http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2013/11/julia_niswender.html

I am now a million percent lost. how can one have not have water in their lungs and drown?

Edit: I feel like I am spinning in circles. As I said, the VI stated there was no water in the lungs. That is what she said. "There are no reports of water in her lungs." Based on what LE has stated, this logically to me makes no sense.

 

[OldSteve]

I am now a million percent lost. how can one have not have water in their lungs and drown?

Checkout "dry drowning" and "secondary drowning".

ETA: but like you, I'm confused...

 

[FindHG]

The VI stated there was no water in the lungs. I am hoping she comes back to clarify if this was said in error or where this came from bc this has many greatly confused as it conflicts with what LE stated.

Am still going through MSM, from the past couple years. The family's approach to public outreach, of course, always heartfelt, but the intent seems to have been in many instances where adults, especially when it came the Dad side of things as questioning and, well, kind of spinning LE's release of information, a tad too often. That's just a general observation, mine, that may be in error, you'll have to judge for yourself.

Only the individuals involved in how things happen can really unravel what went how when and who pushed for this or that, in the end. The sad thing about it all now is, in addition to having a lost a young lady who aspired to be among the heights of those who sought truth and exposed, someday producing news in Manhattan, that it has divided the family she seemed to love so much to the end and seemed to want to be there for, with the exception of her step-dad, perhaps. He's in jail for now. I hope it gives the family a chance to gather themselves and come up with the right answers that Julia's untimely snuffing out has left in so many hearts. It's a cruel way to put it, I'm sorry for that. Her manner of death seems piercingly cruel.

 

[hockeymom4]

BBM

but that's the thing ..... with a vagal episode and then being put into the water, there would be no water in the lungs. (*per screen shot of book page above). Or being put into cold water, can cause a vagal reaction and no water in lungs on autopsy autopsy. With the vagal reflex, the muscle essentially shuts off the airway, thus no water enters lungs. It is what has saved some drowning victims from dying, if they are revived relatively quickly.

I believe that is what is called a "dry drowning", maybe even a diving reflex? The vagus nerve at top of larynx reacts by slowing then stopping heart rate. An impulse along laryngeal nerve causes a laryngospasm (which keeps water from entering lungs).

www.poolwatcher.au/ertrinken.pdf


More info along this line might be found by searching "vasovagal reflex mechanisms" or vagal reflex with drowning.



* which was removed. Sorry Bessie -- I didn't realize a screenshot of it was not allowed. Post 97 here has the link. Ipad won't let me retrieve it without losing my post.

Thanks for doing the research and providing the link, Spellbound. I'm aware of "dry drowning" situations, but I've not seen a report which states there was no water in the lungs. As far as I know, the autopsy report has not been made public. I'm relying on the the LE statements provided to the media which say:

- The poor girl was asphyxiated, but alive;
- Then drowned in the tub;
- Her VS condition was ruled out as a factor;
- Cause of death is "asphyxiation associated with drowning"; and
- Manner of death is homicide.

In addition:

- The manner in which she was asphyxiated has not been determined;
- She was partially clothed;
- Her body was in an "unnatural position";
- There were no signs of external physical trauma;
- There was no sexual assault;
- No signs of a struggle;
- No forced entry; but
- Room was in "disarray";
- Items of value were not taken, and her purse was "untouched";
- Robbery does not appear to be a motive; and
- Suspicious evidence was left at the scene, but LE hasn't revealed details about the evidence;
- Stepfather has been named a POI, but LE is not calling him a "suspect" at this time. He has not been forthcoming about "his whereabouts in the days prior" to the murder.


http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2013/11/julia_niswender.html
http://www.annarbor.com/news/ypsila...-confirms-julia-niswender-drowned-in-bathtub/
http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2013/11/julia_niswender_family.html
http://www.capitalbay.com/latest-ne...r-she-didn-t-show-up-for-christmas-party.html
http://www.heritage.com/articles/2015/03/07/ypsilanti_courier/news/doc54f741b1bf7c4984549555.txt

OldSteve, I did think of that, but as Bessie said there has been nothing in MSM to say she had no water in her lungs. The only thing would be if they chose to only release that to the family. Not sure why they would do that though.

 

[bessie]

I am now a million percent lost. how can one have not have water in their lungs and drown?

Edit: I feel like I am spinning in circles. As I said, the VI stated there was no water in the lungs. That is what she said. "There are no reports of water in her lungs." Based on what LE has stated, this logically to me makes no sense.

Read Spellbound's very nice post about "dry drowning".

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Ypsilanti-Dec-2012-2&p=11571847#post11571847

You might also want to check out this FBI publication. Scroll down to "Deaths by Drowning".

http://www2.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2006/feb2006/feb2006leb.htm

ETA: We DO NOT know that the above possibility is a FACT. It's only offered as an answer to the question in bold.

 

[Spellbound]

The VI stated there was no water in the lungs. I am hoping she comes back to clarify if this was said in error or where this came from bc this has many greatly confused as it conflicts with what LE stated.

See my previous post #109 about "dry drowning" ..... apparently one can drown and not have water in the lungs. I agree, this aspect is confusing.

 

[cluciano63]

I thought I read here yesterday that tox was not conclusive? Am I wrong? Could she have been drugged and then suffocated and put into tub? Not all drugs show up, they have to test for them, Imo.

 

[tarabull]

Did JT take any lie detector test in November 2012 regarding the child *advertiser censored*??? (so before Julia was murdered) or were those tests not administered until after her death???

Have we been given that detail?

 

[FindHG]

Julia Niswender's stepfather named person of interest in 2012 homicide
By Ben Baird, in Heritage, on Sunday, March 8th, 2015

Did JT take any lie detector test in November 2012 regarding the child *advertiser censored*??? (so before Julia was murdered) or were those tests not administered until after her death???

Have we been given that detail?

Closest as I could find on MSM to details on the two polygraphs, note his lawyer's wording.

"When we were involved with this case early on, we wanted (Turnquist) to take a polygraph,"

[...]

"He submitted himself to two polygraphs, he passed them both. The Michigan State Police cleared him as a suspect."

bbm

 

[rosesfromangels]

Julia Niswender's stepfather named person of interest in 2012 homicide
By Ben Baird, in Heritage, on Sunday, March 8th, 2015



Closest as I could find on MSM to details on the two polygraphs, note his lawyer's wording.

"When we were involved with this case early on, we wanted (Turnquist) to take a polygraph,"

[...]

"He submitted himself to two polygraphs, he passed them both. The Michigan State Police cleared him as a suspect."

bbm

So, I'm confused. I know his lawyer is "posturing"....did he, or did he not pass those polys? And, is it accurate that the Michigan state police cleared him as a suspect? If this is accurate information, then is LE saying this is *now* not accurate? I don't get it....

 

[FindHG]

So, I'm confused. I know his lawyer is "posturing"....did he, or did he not pass those polys? And, is it accurate that the Michigan state police cleared him as a suspect? If this is accurate information, then is LE saying this is *now* not accurate? I don't get it....

It's a jumble of different quotes at different points in the investigation as reported in MSM, prior to this statement after the arrest, best I can make out. Do polygraphs really clear people, anyway? I don't know? But did the "we" test him twice, and then LE? Did LE test him twice? I'm confused? Or did the "we" and LE each test him once? That the lawyer is being confusing, I guess, may say something. Maybe he was just nervous on camera? Maybe he's being confusing on purpose.

 

[tarabull]

This caught my attention, posted November 30, 2012: https://instagram.com/p/SrjigpSYQE/?modal=true

https://instagram.com/julia_twin21989/
https://twitter.com/julianiswender2

 

[hockeymom4]

I don't know how to tell which date, but it was around 11/7 on Instagram. I text between her and "daddy" with love you. Is this to the stepdad? Just confused because of what grandma stated.

 

[mrsbk]

https://instagram.com/p/RvyN9cSYei/?modal=true

Long time lurker - first time poster.

 

[hockeymom4]

https://instagram.com/p/RvyN9cSYei/?modal=true

Long time lurker - first time poster.

Thanks. That's what I was referring to. Didn't know how to post.
Then on 11/26 twiiter
Trust no one

 

[tarabull]

I don't know how to tell which date, but it was around 11/7 on Instagram. I text between her and "daddy" with love you. Is this to the stepdad? Just confused because of what grandma stated.

Not sure but she went to NY, to Anderson Cooper of all things...he was her hero of sorts. She was going into journalism/reporting. I wondered if the idea of that threatened JT?

The trust no one goes with this pic: https://instagram.com/p/SgRbwvSYRu/?modal=true

 

[FindHG]

This caught my attention, posted November 30, 2012: https://instagram.com/p/SrjigpSYQE/?modal=true

https://instagram.com/julia_twin21989/
https://twitter.com/julianiswender2

It just gets stranger, for me. Thanks for the links, I won't comment as I'm not sure where TOS stands on that with instagram.

 

[tarabull]

https://instagram.com/p/RvyN9cSYei/?modal=true

Long time lurker - first time poster.

the caption says Dads can be cute sometimes

 

[dmc43613]

Thanks. That's what I was referring to. Didn't know how to post.
Then on 11/26 twiiter
Trust no one

I wonder where that is in proximity to the "alleged" court documents against JT in November 2012....

 

[rosesfromangels]

https://instagram.com/p/RvyN9cSYei/?modal=true

Long time lurker - first time poster.

:welcome6: