MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #3

[electric_rainbow]

I'm confused, how can someone say they do not know if someone "hates" someone and then say that someone told them that someone hates someone? I have had conversation's WITH Kim and she has NEVER, once mentioned anyone in her family hating anyone in the Bruck family. She has herself told me that the Bruck family was supporting JT's innocence. Seems conflicting to me.

It's not that complicated...Trojan is saying that he didn't hear Jim say that he hates the Bruck family first hand, but that Kim said he did.

 

[rosesfromangels]

V

I'm confused, how can someone say they do not know if someone "hates" someone and then say that someone told them that someone hates someone? I have had conversation's WITH Kim and she has NEVER, once mentioned anyone in her family hating anyone in the Bruck family. She has herself told me that the Bruck family was supporting JT's innocence. Seems conflicting to me.

MiMommy, I asked for clarification because up thread *you* said JT hated the Brucks. I'm interested in knowing why he felt this way.
Did I misunderstand? So much on this thread, I probably did.
As always, thank you for your enduring patience in answering all these questions!

 

[Spellbound]

V

MiMommy, I asked for clarification because up thread *you* said JT hated the Brucks. I'm interested in knowing why he felt this way.
Did I misunderstand? So much on this thread, I probably did.
As always, thank you for your enduring patience in answering all these questions!

Unless I am the one who missed something, I believe it was 4ist who used the word "hated Bruck family".

It seems KT was much more social than her husband. Which makes me wonder if Julia as an adult wanted more freedom,why was it denied to her? I have no idea, but that conflict could have led to other difficulties in her family dynamics. If KT went out with friends and left the girls home with dad, did something happen she was uncomfortable with? Something she was concerned about? Something she has suspicions over?

ETA: JMO and trying to do some thinking

 

[4ist]

I hope you're suggesting this as a generality and not as fact. I can assure you that my husband of nearly 44 years has never looked at *advertiser censored* nor would ever consider doing so. I read your post aloud to him last night, and he was not amused.

Even though many of us have different theories about what happened, I think we can ALL AGREE that we want Justice for Julia! We all come from different walks of life and backgrounds, and each one of us brings something to the table. We are united by a common goal here: to seek justice. Each of us exercise our sleuthing muscle to the deepest, and darkest places imaginable...emotions are high and we are all frustrated. Yet this is exactly what helps find the truth. We can make a difference. I have full faith in LE and our justice system (although not perfect by any means), that we will learn the identity of those responsible and they will be held accountable for the murder of Julia Niswender.

I had the distinct honor of knowing one of the Bay Area's best homicide detectives. What a character he was! He was involved in some high profile cases; one wAs even made in to movie. He used to fascinate us all with his tales, and he had the most extraordinary mind. As far as sleuthing goes, I remember him saying a thousand times to focus on the WHY and the WHO will become a natural byproduct of that.

So let's drill down more on the WHY and pull them apart. What are all the top possibilities?

My top Why possibilities :

-Infidelity of Perp
-Discovery of a Crime/Secret of the Perp ...threat to go public
-Accidental and panicked

My top 3 theories:

1. She was going to expose the Perp for something; she was going to tell
2. Heated argument; the Perp lost his temper
3. She slighted a suitor, or random campus weirdo

Three theories?! I only have half of one theory, and I don't have much confidence in it! Coming up with two and a half more has my brain in a snarl of questions, contradictions and doubt - usually a good reason to keep ones mouth shut. Nevertheless:

-- JT, a bipolar, is thrown off kilter by some unidentified stresser in his life and cycles into a hyper-manic state in which judgement suffers and confidence abounds. His already difficult relationship with Julia hit a crisis for some unknown reason and he jumps to the conclusion that a brilliant solution would be to kill her. He's been to her apartment before, and knows, from family members who visited her on the day before her death, that she should be at her apartment that evening. She lets him in the door. He uses a choke hold, which he was able to master using his martial arts skills, to kill her without leaving outward marks. He tries to wash fiber or DNA evidence off of her in her tub. Whatever DNA evidence he does leave has to be written off by LE as explainable thru JT's and JN's known contacts. JT is able to provide a fake but plausible alibi.

-- An acquaintance of Julia's visits her, freaks out for some unknown reason, chokes her in a way that, by sheer luck, leaves no marks. The killer moves her body to the bathroom with the vague thought that it would be less likely to be seen thru the curtained first floor window in her room. The killer is a man (strength and violence) with problems with impulse and anger control. He is familiar with Peninsular Place and might already have been in to her apartment for some legitimate reason. Wierd bad luck somehow prevents LE from quickly scooping up a suspect for this unplanned, amateur murder by someone with links to Julia.

-- A serial killer with great charm and or conning skills talks his way into an acquaintance with Julia and gets into her apartment with her permission. He artfully asphyxiates her. He loses his mojo, or didn't have a sexual motivation in the first place, washes the body of trace evidence, and leaves. (I think that TSR* should be alerted to this theory).

I'm going to go back now, if I may, to the maps, where I have more of a chance of being right about something.

* TSR = Television Script Writers.

Those about cover it for me, a combo of roses 1. dmc's infidelity, and Forager's JT. Awesome conjecture.

Is it possible Julia had found out about the child *advertiser censored*?
And, I am so sorry to say this because it's upsetting, but the youngest daughter is at an age that is interesting to pedophiles. I pray there is no such connection.

Either that, but if sexual impulse issues, control issues, personal boundary issues, with a possible history of prying on vulnerable impressionable females to get near their children, it could be possible that if the other proclivities hadn't yet pushed his family apart, besides Julia, that news of an affair/s with other women may have? Considering he did clean in the Ypsilanti area, it may be possible Julia ran into him at the wrong place at the wrong time, and he knew and was afraid of her saying something or having some physical evidence thus the disarray in the room? She may have known and had no intention to tell too, and the "Trust no one" text may have been about his attempts to fish for information around her and her reaction.

If Julia was taking action over child *advertiser censored* or whatever else and Turnquist was in any way threatened by this or knew or suspected, then his motive may have only been self-preservation, thus no full statement that would make all this go away, it seems. He may not have ever cared more for his children than himself. What would prompt Julia to take action though? I imagine it would involve support from an other or others along the way, it seems possible. She was a girl who took big strides in a short time.

Very disturbing at many levels, especially that Mom didn't protect her girls' privacy. Beyond outrageous. Creepy.

Why did he dislike the Brucks?

4ist, could you clarify what reason was given by Kim and JT for the curtain in the bathroom? Your posts have given different reasons. Did you visit Kim and JT in Gaylord? If so, how often? Thanks for clearing this up.

Fascinating. Thank you for providing this information.
If I've learned one thing in life, it's that the simplest explanation is usually the truth. What are the odds that two young women connected to the Turnquist family would be murdered within the span of 2 years?
Perhaps the connection is not Jim...perhaps it is Kim, or Jennifer, or someone else in the family, but odds are that the connection is there. And Jim is the one with a history of martial arts training and a controlling nature.
I am beyond grossed out by his removal of the bathroom door. That is perhaps the biggest red flag I've ever heard of.

I find it odd he is staying away from the home, and with a female. Just strikes me as odd. I would have thought the young daughter would go stay at Grandma's, while the married couple works on his defense, finances, etc.

This whole family dynamic is beyond bizarre, and Turnquist is at the center of it. Bathroom doors off, mouth taping, children moving to live with Grandma, suicidal drama, *advertiser censored* charges....and this is what we *know* about.

The youngest daughter is staying in the family home with KT to attempt and not further twist her daily life anymore than it already has, the goal is to allow her to have SOME sense of normalcy.

As you can imagine by the family dynamic's you have read on here - sending her to grandma's would not have ever been an option.

On the subject of Julia going to stay with grandma - my understanding of this is that it occurred when she was an adult and did not want to follow house rules including curfews and such. Which is totally different than a minor going to stay with grandma.

MiMommy, again I am reading your posts and it is like I am hearing Kim and JT's words. I believe that the 'normalcy' in the Turnquist house was normal only to them that lived there, to all others it was far from it. So saying that M, stayed in the Turnquist home for some normalcy was a very poor decision. IMO!
As for Julia going to live with her Grandma, there is a whole lot of untruths in your last paragraph. It was not all because of Julia not abiding by the house rules and curfew. And it surely was not JUST JT that kicked her out, recently heard from Kim that it was a fist fight between Kim & Julia, so I believe that there are a whole lot that had been going on behind those closed doors then KT, JT or Jen and even M wants the public to know about.

 

[black_squirrel]

It seems KT was much more social than her husband. Which makes me wonder if Julia as an adult wanted more freedom,why was it denied to her?

How was Julia denied freedom as an adult?

 

[rosesfromangels]

Ok sorry for the confusion MiMommy. It appears it was 4ist who informed that JT hated the Brucks, not you. Trojan has confirmed Kim stating this as well.
I wonder WHY?!

I'm not going to tippie toe around. I have not cleared JT off my POI list in either Julia or Chelsea's murders. The odds of two family friends murdered from the same small town are astronomical. I can only find one common thread at the moment; JT. I am not saying he is the Perp, I am saying he is all around suspicious. May be involved at some level.

Obviously this is why the JT hated the Brucks is so important to dig deep on.

 

[electric_rainbow]

How was Julia denied freedom as an adult?

To be fair, I don't consider it odd or some kind of lack of freedom that her parents had rules like a curfew while she was in college. My house, my rules, etc. My parents were the same way and though I've chosen not to have kids, I would be too.

 

[black_squirrel]

As for Julia going to live with her Grandma, there is a whole lot of untruths in your last paragraph. It was not all because of Julia not abiding by the house rules and curfew. And it surely was not JUST JT that kicked her out, recently heard from Kim that it was a fist fight between Kim & Julia, so I believe that there are a whole lot that had been going on behind those closed doors then KT, JT or Jen and even M wants the public to know about.

If KT told you this, then I think she is not concerned about the public finding out. I believe someone already posted here that Julia had hit KT and that JT asked Julia to leave. Whatever the conflicts were though, it seems that in the time before Julia's death the relationship between Julia and her parents was fine.

4ist, could you explain again why KT and JT got a curtain in the bathroom? In 2 different posts you gave 2 different answers. Did you go to visit them in Gaylord? Often? Thanks.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I think we are all still traumatized at the thought of two young girls having to use the bathroom with a curtain, and I wonder how many times JT was poking his head in?
I mean they could have had a vanity set up in their room for primping. Toilet and shower time could have been brief; hair and makeup done in room. This seems very concerning. And I assume Turnquist was behind the curtain as well? I just had an involuntary shiver.

 

[Spellbound]

How was Julia denied freedom as an adult?

Sorry, was not meant to provoke anything ---- I edited my post to add. "JMO ( just my opinion ) and doing some thinking" .

I don't know if she felt she needed/wanted more freedom, or it was denied. It seems she may have wanted to set her own times to come and go from home as a young adult. My post said it just made me WONDER if that was what she wanted (more freedom). I would call that wanting more freedom. Others may not. I do not claim to know for a fact anything about Julia or her family, their relationships, desires, goals, finances, or anything else.

I hope that clears it up for you.

 

[Spellbound]

I think we are all still traumatized at the thought of two young girls having to use the bathroom with a curtain, and I wonder how many times JT was poking his head in?
I mean they could have had a vanity set up in their room for primping. Toilet and shower time could have been brief; hair and makeup done in room. This seems very concerning. And I assume Turnquist was behind the curtain as well? I just had an involuntary shiver.

BBM
The mental picture disgusts me, and is one I had not considered.

 

[rosesfromangels]

As far as Julia, I speculate that she realized that her household was highly dysfunctional, and she rebeled against it. I'm sure this caused a lot of problems with control freak JT and his obedient partner Kim. This is just all armchair speculation. Julia sounds like she was a self determined young lady, and of course that wouldn't have set well in JTs world from the portrayal I get on this thread.

Opinion and speculation only.

 

[4ist]

Why did he dislike the Brucks?

Not sure Rose why Kim would say that. I do know that Kim and Jim T. Didn't do much together, he is not very social and Kim seemed to have a hard time staying home.

 

[4ist]

4ist, could you clarify what reason was given by Kim and JT for the curtain in the bathroom? Your posts have given different reasons. Did you visit Kim and JT in Gaylord? If so, how often? Thanks for clearing this up.

Black Squirrel, both of the posts are what Kim told us.

 

[4ist]

4ist, could you clarify what reason was given by Kim and JT for the curtain in the bathroom? Your posts have given different reasons. Did you visit Kim and JT in Gaylord? If so, how often? Thanks for clearing this up.

I did not visit them in Gaylord, but my husband did, and took pictures of the grandkids and kids, some of which you can see the bathroom. when I saw the pictures, I was shocked! When I was told that it was a bathroom and as to the reason that Kim gave for the removal of the door.

 

[Trojan1966]

Ok sorry for the confusion MiMommy. It appears it was 4ist who informed that JT hated the Brucks, not you. Trojan has confirmed Kim stating this as well.
I wonder WHY?!

I'm not going to tippie toe around. I have not cleared JT off my POI list in either Julia or Chelsea's murders. The odds of two family friends murdered from the same small town are astronomical. I can only find one common thread at the moment; JT. I am not saying he is the Perp, I am saying he is all around suspicious. May be involved at some level.

Obviously this is why the JT hated the Brucks is so important to dig deep on.

MMy last communication with Kim was over a one hour of her ranting at me on the phone. During this "rant" she mentioned that JT hated the Brucks and didn't want to go to the wedding. Since this time, she has not talked to me but the one hour of "ranting" was pretty much running down everyone in the extended family because JT was innocent of having child *advertiser censored*. She also stated that people who think that JT had something to do with Julia's murder are crazy. She said "Do you think I would have brought such a person into my family to "raise" the twins?" Well, maybe she didn't know him as well as she thought when she met him. He has never been very friendly to our extended family and always seemed uncomfortable and usually would leave gathering early.

 

[FindHG]

MiMommy, again I am reading your posts and it is like I am hearing Kim and JT's words. I believe that the 'normalcy' in the Turnquist house was normal only to them that lived there, to all others it was far from it. So saying that [youngest girl], stayed in the Turnquist home for some normalcy was a very poor decision. IMO!
As for Julia going to live with her Grandma, there is a whole lot of untruths in your last paragraph. It was not all because of Julia not abiding by the house rules and curfew. And it surely was not JUST JT that kicked her out, recently heard from Kim that it was a fist fight between Kim & Julia, so I believe that there are a whole lot that had been going on behind those closed doors then KT, JT or Jen and even M wants the public to know about.

Thank you again, to you both for your input. It means a lot in grasping the situation. It's brave of you and I'm sure not easy to do.

I can not say for a fact that JT "hated" the Bruck family but I do remember Kim saying that he "hated" the family. Why? I have no idea. I do know that he had told KT that he wasn't going to the wedding eventhough Jennifer was Kassie's maid of honor. Finally, just before the wedding, he changed his mind and attended. Evidently KT was going to bring a "friend" but Kassie told her that the invatation was only for her family. So then Jim changed his mind and attended.

 

[MIMOMMY]

Hearing Kim and JT'S words?

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

I'm still dumbfounded that WS is tolerating the mention of a minor child's name! Does anyone have her best interest in mind?!

 

[FindHG]

MMy last communication with Kim was over a one hour of her ranting at me on the phone. During this "rant" she mentioned that JT hated the Brucks and didn't want to go to the wedding. Since this time, she has not talked to me but the one hour of "ranting" was pretty much running down everyone in the extended family because JT was innocent of having child *advertiser censored*. She also stated that people who think that JT had something to do with Julia's murder are crazy. She said "Do you think I would have brought such a person into my family to "raise" the twins?" Well, maybe she didn't know him as well as she thought when she met him. He has never been very friendly to our extended family and always seemed uncomfortable and usually would leave gathering early.

Trojan, you're an amazing stalwart dad to keep reaching out. It's so hard to even begin to imagine what a horrible situation this must be for you. I wouldn't have been able to deal with it as admirably as you have. Your family is extremely fortunate to have you.