MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #4

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I have a few questions regarding the September trial.

What could be any of the possible verdicts or outcomes from it? Such as guilty or mistrial or not guilty, etc types of verdicts or setbacks. If he is not found guilty, what happens to Julie's case?

What is the expected outcome of this trial does Julie's investigation team think will happen? Are they confident that cases are both strong and letting it work its way through the courts? Or are they putting all their eggs into one basket with hopes of the guilty verdict then begin working with JT in making deals with sentencing? Do they have back-up plans to counteract any other result than what they are expecting or hoping for?

I'm trying to understand what could be some of the different trial outcome and how will the outcome affect Julie's case if it does not produce the results she deserves?

I realize the answers may not be there regarding my questions. I think about this in regards to answers in Julie's case and curious of what could happen in this upcoming trial.

Feels like a chess game and check is on the table.
 
ModMaiden said:
I have a few questions regarding the September trial.

What could be any of the possible verdicts or outcomes from it? Such as guilty or mistrial or not guilty, etc types of verdicts or setbacks. If he is not found guilty, what happens to Julie's case?

What is the expected outcome of this trial does Julie's investigation team think will happen? Are they confident that cases are both strong and letting it work its way through the courts? Or are they putting all their eggs into one basket with hopes of the guilty verdict then begin working with JT in making deals with sentencing? Do they have back-up plans to counteract any other result than what they are expecting or hoping for?

I'm trying to understand what could be some of the different trial outcome and how will the outcome affect Julie's case if it does not produce the results she deserves?

I realize the answers may not be there regarding my questions. I think about this in regards to answers in Julie's case and curious of what could happen in this upcoming trial.

Feels like a chess game and check is on the table.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I can't help with the answers. We will just have to wait and let everything run it's course. My main focus is finding out who killed Julia and why. I'm not convinced that whatever the verdict is in the child *advertiser censored* case will cause JT to help with the investigation. I know that if my daughter was murdered, I'd do all I could to help LE solve the murder unless I really had something to hide. The longer this goes on, everyone starts believing that JT is trying to "hide" something. I have no choice other than to let everything happen and hope the results help solve Julia's murder. I pray each and every night for this crime to be solved.
 
Trojan1966 said:
Sorry, I can't help with the answers. We will just have to wait and let everything run it's course. My main focus is finding out who killed Julia and why. I'm not convinced that whatever the verdict is in the child *advertiser censored* case will cause JT to help with the investigation. I know that if my daughter was murdered, I'd do all I could to help LE solve the murder unless I really had something to hide. The longer this goes on, everyone starts believing that JT is trying to "hide" something. I have no choice other than to let everything happen and hope the results help solve Julia's murder. I pray each and every night for this crime to be solved.
Click to expand...

Thank you for answering. Seems like one big knot right now and each day a little piece is untangled. The bolded part is what I don't understand about Julie's mother...if that was my daughter, no husband of mine would be safe from my fury if LE named him an POI. He would start talking or start walking. Just baffling...

Stay strong and know many of us are here for you. Julie is very lucky to have you as her champion and it's easy to see why she adored you.
 
Highlights from the article:

Investigators met with members of the FBI Behaviorial Analyst Unit last May who concluded that the killer was known to the victim, “took their time” and was “well organized,” according to the affidavit. An FBI agent, who was later assigned to the case, advised Ypsilanti police that he would consider Turnquist to be “their No. 1 suspect” and suggested they investigate him further.

■ On Dec. 13, 2014, disposable latex gloves found on her bedroom floor were submitted to the Michigan State Police’s Crime Lab and it was later determined that male DNA was inside of the gloves. According to the lab results, two different male “DNA donors” were discovered within the gloves. Turnquist’s DNA was not a match for one of the samples and the other was too weak for comparison and could only be described as belonging to a male.

■ Other samples taken from the body were determined to be male DNA and tested positive for seminal fluid. A lab scientist from the MSP Crime Lab stated in 2014 that the swabs collected from her body indicated the suspect “is consistent with a male who had a vasectomy.” Rose Niswender, Julia Niswender’s grandmother, told police that Turnquist had a vasectomy after the birth of his first and only child.

■ Coppock stated she interviewed Niswender’s best friend on Dec. 14, 2012, and the woman told her that Niswender disclosed two years prior to her death that Turnquist did “inappropriate things” to her sexually, growing up as a child. The friend, who is not being named by the Free Press, also stated that Turnquist also made inappropriate remarks to her, referring to her as “his girlfriend” and asking at one point if she was “coming to cuddle” with him. But the friend, who was re-interviewed on Feb. 15, 2013, later denied ever making those statements to Coppock.

■ Rose Niswender, who has spoken publicly against Turnquist, described Turnquist to police as “a loner who engages in avoidance behavior with family members and very controlling.” She accused him of drinking excessively after Niswender’s death and said he became more “quick tempered.” She also said she suspected him of sexually molesting Niswender.

■ On Feb. 11, 2013, police interviewed Turnquist’s ex-wife, who hadn’t spoken with him since they divorced in 1999, and she told them that he was raised in an “extremely abusive environment.” Turnquist’s stepmother told police that his biological mother allowed her husband to severely beat him when he was a boy, and she suspected he was sexually abused as well.

■ Police said Turnquist sat calmly in the lobby chair and appeared to be “unemotional and composed” after finding out about her death.
 
This article in the Ann Arbor News on the MLive site has really revealed lots of details that the immediate family has not been told previously. It sure does not paint a pretty picture of JT or of his actions. I'm so sick that I can barely type this..................... Justice for Julia is all I can say.
 
Trojan1966 said:
This article in the Ann Arbor News on the MLive site has really revealed lots of details that the immediate family has not been told previously. It sure does not paint a pretty picture of JT or of his actions. I'm so sick that I can barely type this..................... Justice for Julia is all I can say.
Click to expand...

Me, too, Trojan. I am so sorry you have to see this, tho I know you need to know what happened to our beautiful Julia. :grouphug:
 
Oh my...how heartbreaking to read those articles and see details I wasn't aware of. I cannot imagine the depth of pain the family feels learning the new information. I am so sorry for Julie and your family.

The new information is very troubling. If they could only find those missing items.

I wonder if the pillowcase was used to carry items out. The missing rug is very interesting, first thought was did JT have access to Julie's belongings after she was discovered and before he was named POI? He does have a cleaning business, correct? Who cleaned up Julie's room?

The two polygraph tests he passed. It has been my understanding that these tests were not given by LE or that one was by LE but it was inclusive. One was given by his lawyer prior to the second test and he ordered the questions to be asked at that test. Could someone clarify about those tests to refresh my memory, please? I might have missed any confirmation to who gave what test and such.

How many days prior to Julia’s death are the detectives wanting to know regarding to his whereabouts?

I do wonder why the change of story from the friend. That makes no sense at all to me.

The most telling is the vasectomy. Most men her age would not have this done but older men might, in my opinion. That would certainly narrow the list of possible suspects I would imagine. Did anyone else know about JT having an vasectomy? If KT wasn't aware of those findings but about JT's procedure perhaps it might help her push him into talking and clearing his name. It would certainly be a shock to learn and I feel like she is caught between everyone. We only want KT to do what is right for her beloved Julie. We always need Mom...Julie needs her Mom.

Thank you, Spellbound and caspermi for posting those. I certainly can understand why it was so difficult to do.
 
Talk about cracking the case wide open...wow. It's certainly not looking good for JT. I'm so sorry this happened to Julia.
 
ModMaiden said:
Oh my...how heartbreaking to read those articles and see details I wasn't aware of. I cannot imagine the depth of pain the family feels learning the new information. I am so sorry for Julie and your family.

The new information is very troubling. If they could only find those missing items.

I wonder if the pillowcase was used to carry items out. The missing rug is very interesting, first thought was did JT have access to Julie's belongings after she was discovered and before he was named POI? He does have a cleaning business, correct? Who cleaned up Julie's room?

The two polygraph tests he passed. It has been my understanding that these tests were not given by LE or that one was by LE but it was inclusive. One was given by his lawyer prior to the second test and he ordered the questions to be asked at that test. Could someone clarify about those tests to refresh my memory, please? I might have missed any confirmation to who gave what test and such.

How many days prior to Julia’s death are the detectives wanting to know regarding to his whereabouts?

I do wonder why the change of story from the friend. That makes no sense at all to me.

The most telling is the vasectomy. Most men her age would not have this done but older men might, in my opinion. That would certainly narrow the list of possible suspects I would imagine. Did anyone else know about JT having an vasectomy? If KT wasn't aware of those findings but about JT's procedure perhaps it might help her push him into talking and clearing his name. It would certainly be a shock to learn and I feel like she is caught between everyone. We only want KT to do what is right for her beloved Julie. We always need Mom...Julie needs her Mom.

Thank you, Spellbound and caspermi for posting those. I certainly can understand why it was so difficult to do.
Click to expand...

The freep article refers to the "best friend".... wonder if it was Chelsea's sister? People have multiple best friends, so it may or may not have been.

Same article:
"Police contacted Niswender's mother, who had collected her belongings from the apartment, and asked if they could obtain the rug. Kim Turnquist took the investigators to a storage unit where Niswender's belongings were housed but the rug was not among the items."

I would assume if the mother collected Julia's things, the stepfather also had access to them.

Turnquist has denied his involvement and has passed a privately administered polygraph test and one administered by Washtenaw County Sheriff's Office. (from freep article) Seems that there was a private test, and a test by Washtenaw Sheriff's. I don't give a lot of weight to passing, as some people are able to pass and still have information. Also, we don't know what questions were asked, and perhaps they wanted to do another and were denied.

I agree with you on the vasectomy. Rare for young people to do so. One of the articles says JT asked Grandma Rose for referrals, so other family must have known about it.
Rose Niswender, Julia Niswender's grandmother, told police that Turnquist had a vasectomy after the birth of his first and only child. (from freep article)
After police determined seminal fluid on Niswender was from a man who'd had vasectomy, Julia's grandmother Rose Niswender – who later filed for a personal protection order -- informed them that Turnquist had one and had even asked her for a doctor recommendation. (from the M-Live article)

I found this statement interesting:
The FBI behavioral analysts believe the rubber gloves were intentionally left at the scene to mislead investigators and said that they had seen that numerous times before in their training and experience.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...sectomy-fbi-profiler-points-stepdad/71507420/

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor...ents_detail_allegations_a.html#incart_m-rpt-2
 
Wow. All this information will take some time to digest.

The most important physical evidence are the gloves and the seminal fluid.

Do we know where the seminal fluid was found? Was it inside her body, or on her body?
Was the seminal fluid tested for DNA? If so, did it match JT? Was this evidence submerged under water?
The article says that the seminal fluid is consistent with a male with a "vasectomy". But that only states that
men with a vasectomy cannot be excluded. Does this evidence actually exclude people who didn't have a vasestomy?
Could the fluid be pre-ejaculation (which may not contain sperm)? Was the amount of seminal fluid found consistent with
a full ejaculation, or did they only find a speck.

Regarding the gloves. I agree with the FBI that they were most likely placed there to throw off investigators. It seems that the perp carefully removed
possible evidence. But then it wouldn't make sense at all to leave gloves behind. Was the murder premeditated? If it was
premeditated, then why leave sperm behind? If the murder wasn't premeditated, maybe the perp left, then came back to clean up the scene
and placed the fake glove, with someone else's DNA on it. This is also a good reason why the perp took the key. Not only to lock the doors
(which might have been done without using a key), but to be able to go back into the apartment at a later time to clean up/place fake evidence.
 
DNA after Vasectomy

https://ncforensics.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/forensic-tests-for-semen-what-you-should-know/

"Vasectomized, oligospermic, and aspermiac males can still produce normal amounts of seminal fluid containing both prostate gland and seminal vesicle secretions which are detectable by forensic laboratory tests"

http://www.guardianforensicsciences.com/the-case-of-the-vasectomized-rapist.html

The Case of the Vasectomized Rapist

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1837/if-a-man-has-had-a-vasectomy-can-dna-be-obtained-from-his-semen

Can a DNA sample be taken from semen from someone who has had a vasectomy (no sperm)?

Your question, taken at face value, is whether or not DNA can be recovered from semen from a vasectomized male. The answer to this question is "yes," but not for the reasons you may think.
 
After reading both articles, here are some questions that pop to mind.

GLOVES

“…disposable latex gloves found on her bedroom floor were submitted to the Michigan State Police's Crime Lab and it was later determined that male DNA was inside of the gloves. According to the lab results, two different male "DNA donors" were discovered within the gloves”

Questions

Did JT use latex gloves in his cleaning business? One can imagine so dealing with harsh cleaning chemicals, moisture.

Two different male "DNA donors" Could he have worn a previously used pair he picked up somewhere? from a cleaning helper? from a medical office he cleaned?

CLEANING BUSINESS

Jim Turnquist, now 47, told police he spoke with Julia on Dec. 9 and that they discussed Christmas shopping with her little sister and plans for her to earn extra money by helping with his cleaning business, according to the documents.

Niswender was supposed to work at a cleaning account for her stepfather that morning (Dec. 10), according to statements to police.

Niswender's roommate told police she last heard from her via text message on the night of Dec. 9, 2012, according to the affidavit. The next day, the roommate heard Julia's alarm clock going off when she stopped in the apartment on her way to classes.

"Kim knows that Jim was there all night because Kim advised she got up several times, to use the bathroom, in the middle of the night and notes that Jim was present," she wrote. "Kim states that Jim left for work at 7:15 a.m. Monday morning (Dec. 10) and probably picked up an employee ... on the way to his worksite."

Questions

How does the timeline of JT leaving for work at 7:15am Monday stackup against the time the roommate stopped in the apartment on her way to classes that morning? Could the crime have been committed Monday morning?

Since she had a cleaning job scheduled for the morning of Monday, Dec 10, did JT make any attempt to call her afterwards to see how the job went? (cell call logs should show this) Since she was a “no show” for work that morning, did he receive a call from the business to be cleaned or another cleaning company employee that she did not show up?

Kim states that JT left at 7:15am “on the way to the worksite”. Was this this same worksite that JN was scheduled to be at?

Did JN sometimes work by herself on cleaning jobs? If so, did she have her own cleaning supplies and equipment either at her apartment or in her car? If not, this could blow up the Dec 10 "cleaning job" story.

Who is the employee that JT "probably picked up?"
 
So sorry Trojan. That was tough for me to read. Can't imagine what you and family are feeling. Hugs. So where is the rug, Kim? Not at all surprised about the abuse allegations. Control freak tying up the person who got out from under his thumb. That says volumes. Justice is coming.
 
black_squirrel said:
Wow. All this information will take some time to digest.

If the murder wasn't premeditated, maybe the perp left, then came back to clean up the scene and placed the fake glove, with someone else's DNA on it.
Click to expand...

One of the articles mentioned that JN's blood was found on or in one of the gloves.

"A dark-colored substance could be seen within the gloves, later confirmed by the Michigan State Police Crime Lab as being Julia's blood," Detective Coppock wrote.

So the killer may have either worn the gloves or purposely taken a used pair and smeared JN's blood on or in them.
 
"So where is the rug, Kim?" Are you saying the detectives, investigators and crime scene techs couldn't figure out the rug was part of the crime scene until 2 years later????? Seriously, if that's the case... I certainly wouldn't want this crew investigating anything!
 
caspermi said:
One of the articles mentioned that JN's blood was found on or in one of the gloves.

"A dark-colored substance could be seen within the gloves, later confirmed by the Michigan State Police Crime Lab as being Julia's blood," Detective Coppock wrote.

So the killer may have either worn the gloves or purposely taken a used pair and smeared JN's blood on or in them.
Click to expand...

This is still very puzzling to me. How did Julia's blood get on the gloves? She wasn't bleeding except in her mouth from biting her tongue.
I am also wondering how the blood got inside the glove. Taking off latex gloves almost always turns the gloves inside out. So this is consistent
with someone touching the blood, then taking of the gloves, leaving blood on the inside and finger prints/DNA on the outside. But as I said before
I think it would be really, really stupid of the perp to leave behind the gloves. On the other hand, it might be tricky to take someone else's gloves and
put blood on the inside, without leaving your own DNA etc.. I hope they have good pictures of the gloves, because that might be enlightening.
 
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