MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #5

[Skigirl]

I didn't realize that one of the tests was administered by LE; at least they weren't both administered by defense. I wasn't arguing that lie detector tests don't carry weight with investigators, but I don't think a null result is particularly meaningful, and they don't carry any weight with me. All "passing" means is that he didn't get any more anxious when they asked him the 'test' questions relative to his anxiety level during the 'baseline' questions. As a person trained in cognitive neuroscience, I still think that lie detector tests are little better than divining rods at determining anything beyond anxiety, especially when there are null findings.

 

[ModMaiden]

One thought about the stun gun theory is what hand did Julia use as her main? Was she left or right handed? It seems the killer would need to get the stronger hand under control first. If Julia was left-handed, her strongest hand would have been free and if given any time to react upon the initial attack her chances to fight back could have improved if the killer expected her to be right handed or never considered this factor. Someone who knew Julia was left-handed might take this into consideration and needed to get that arm under control first.

 

[Trojan1966]

Suppose that the circular abrasions on the elbow area were indeed from a stun gun. That means that the left side of the body was
probably exposed to the perpetrator as he used the stun gun. For example, Julia might have opened the (bathroom/bedroom/apartment) door and the perpetrator immediately attacked with the stun gun. For her left side to be exposed while opening the door, the handle had to be on the left side of the door from Julia's perspective. That means, that as you enter the bathroom/bedroom/apartment the handle would be on the right.

So my question is, which of the doors in the apartment would have the handle on the right as you enter?
The front door? Julia's bedroom door? Julia's bathroom door?
Does anyone know this? Trojan, do you recall?

From what I remember...... Her bedroom door had the knob on the right side if you were outside the room and looking at the door. That's all I remember. I don't remember the bathroom door or the main entry door.

 

[black_squirrel]

From what I remember...... Her bedroom door had the knob on the right side if you were outside the room and looking at the door. That's all I remember. I don't remember the bathroom door or the main entry door.

Thank you Trojan.
From a Facebook pic posted by a roommate I found out that the apartment # is 120, and that the front door has a handle on the left-side if your standing outside in front of the door. The apartment is exactly as you recalled a while ago in this thread. Julia's apartment has 4 windows facing south, toward huron river dr and the railroad. I think it also has 2 windows facing east. One enters the apartment from the stairway that is east of the apartment. The apartment is on the first floor which is on ground level. I doubt if any burglar would enter through a window. The windows are right next to the parking lot, and can be easily seen by many people, from the parking lot, or from huron river road. The front door is more hidden, in a small alcove. The apartment does not match the floor plans from Peninsular Place. But it probably comes close to the mirror image of those floor plans. I think, as you enter, there would be a kitchen on the right, a bedroom on the left and a living room facing south opposite of the kitchen. Then the other two bedrooms are probably west of the living room.

 

[black_squirrel]

One thought about the stun gun theory is what hand did Julia use as her main? Was she left or right handed? It seems the killer would need to get the stronger hand under control first. If Julia was left-handed, her strongest hand would have been free and if given any time to react upon the initial attack her chances to fight back could have improved if the killer expected her to be right handed or never considered this factor. Someone who knew Julia was left-handed might take this into consideration and needed to get that arm under control first.

Is she left-handed? I just looked at some instagram pictures and it seems that she actually was a lefty. I did not know that.

Anyway, I am not sure if it mattered to the perpetrator. To overpower someone after using a stun gun, one would wrestle the person to the ground if the person did not fall to the ground already. Get the person on the belly and sit on top while grabbing both hands. The perp was probably much stronger than both of Julia's arms.

 

[caspermi]

Thank you Trojan.
From a Facebook pic posted by a roommate I found out that the apartment # is 120, and that the front door has a handle on the left-side if your standing outside in front of the door. The apartment is exactly as you recalled a while ago in this thread. Julia's apartment has 4 windows facing south, toward huron river dr and the railroad. I think it also has 2 windows facing east. One enters the apartment from the stairway that is east of the apartment. The apartment is on the first floor which is on ground level. I doubt if any burglar would enter through a window. The windows are right next to the parking lot, and can be easily seen by many people, from the parking lot, or from huron river road. The front door is more hidden, in a small alcove. The apartment does not match the floor plans from Peninsular Place. But it probably comes close to the mirror image of those floor plans. I think, as you enter, there would be a kitchen on the right, a bedroom on the left and a living room facing south opposite of the kitchen. Then the other two bedrooms are probably west of the living room.

Here is a layout of the 3 bedroom apartment

Link to virtual tour of PP apartment http://tours.imagemaker360.com/Viewer/60.asp?id=94484

 

[caspermi]

Here are some bathroom pics from the PP apartments

 

[caspermi]

The PP website mentions the following:
> Our communities are staffed 24/7 with an on-site professional staff.
> Individually locking bedroom doors
> Steel front door with electronic access
> Panic button

Were the units equipped with the panic buttons in 2012 or is this a new feature?

 

[Skigirl]

The PP website mentions the following:
> Our communities are staffed 24/7 with an on-site professional staff.
> Individually locking bedroom doors
> Steel front door with electronic access
> Panic button

Were the units equipped with the panic buttons in 2012 or is this a new feature?

That's an interesting question. I have a security system with a panic button both on the keypads and a separate button that can be carried around. They seem good in theory, but I think they are overrated for residential use. The chance that I'll be close enough to the keypad and have enough time to push the button if something happens is small, and the chance that I'll wear it around my house is even smaller. They seem very useful for situations in which someone is almost always in a fixed position with time on their side and a way to surreptitiously press it -- like during a bank robbery when the teller has minutes, or at least seconds, to push it while carrying out the command for money -- but less so when peoples' positions are unpredictable, and the situation requires millisecond reaction times.

 

[Spellbound]

The PP website mentions the following:
> Our communities are staffed 24/7 with an on-site professional staff.
> Individually locking bedroom doors
> Steel front door with electronic access
> Panic button

Were the units equipped with the panic buttons in 2012 or is this a new feature?

Don't find anything about the panic buttons, but security cameras were apparently not installed until after March 2014
http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/was...popular-off-campus-apartment-complex-near-emu

Yelp reviews indicate that residents have parking stickers, but they aren't enforced
http://www.yelp.com/biz/peninsular-place-ypsilanti


ETA: seems there were panic buttons available in December 4, 2013, article about a "random shooting" that struck a resident of PP. Not sure if these were in use at the time of Julia's death. Some comments in article are that they don't work, another said they are responded to all the time. Seems if an attack occurs, the likelihood of getting to your panic button might be pretty low.

http://www.easternecho.com/article/2013/12/529f8dd04bf2e
She then proceeded to frantically press the panic button, a feature installed in every Peninsular Place apartment.

In addition to an increased police presence, Cowart said that adding additional outdoor lighting, new electronic locks and a safety program led by EMU Police Officer Candace Dorsey are among the steps the company has taken to protect the apartment complex.

ETA again:


according to to an earlier post here by nursebemee in December 2012, panic buttons were installed at the time of Julia's death:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-193180.html

nursebeeme

12-12-2012, 12:16 PM​

http://ypsistudenthousing.com/amenities

not seeing anything at first glance about cameras but it does say that they have a courtesy patrol officer and the rooms have a "panic button"

 

[Trojan1966]

Is she left-handed? I just looked at some instagram pictures and it seems that she actually was a lefty. I did not know that.

Anyway, I am not sure if it mattered to the perpetrator. To overpower someone after using a stun gun, one would wrestle the person to the ground if the person did not fall to the ground already. Get the person on the belly and sit on top while grabbing both hands. The perp was probably much stronger than both of Julia's arms.

Julia was left handed.

 

[Trojan1966]

The PP website mentions the following:
> Our communities are staffed 24/7 with an on-site professional staff.
> Individually locking bedroom doors
> Steel front door with electronic access
> Panic button

Were the units equipped with the panic buttons in 2012 or is this a new feature?

I'm not sure about the panic buttons and I don't remember an electronic lock on the front door. I thought at the time I visited, it was a normal key lock for the front door. I'll try to check with one of her roommates and let you know.

 

[ModMaiden]

Julia was left handed.

Thank you for that confirmation.

Could you tell me where the front door was located? If Julia was leading someone out of the apartment would her right side or left side be toward the door? My front door is to the right side of wall. From Julia's bedroom to the apartment's front door is the side I am looking for. Would she go left or right? My schedule lately is keeping me away from here but I always think about your granddaughter.

black_squirrel - I'm not so sure a stun gun was used and my reference about what hand she used normally was without a stun gun involved but I didn't clarify that difference before. Are these markings from a stun gun on her body? Something in the reports made me question about her main hand and if it was the left one.

For this to have gone down so quietly as it did Julia had to be controlled quickly, imo. If I look at this by my point of view that if someone grabbed my weaker arm, a fight is more likely since my stronger arm is free but grab that main arm now losing the fight becomes more likely. If the killer was known to Julia, they probably knew her left arm was the stronger of the two. Not saying this was a factor but in understanding how those abrasions maybe got there knowing which was her main arm is helpful to me.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

I found samples of tasers (stun guns) online for purchase. Some are designed to look like flashlights, or can be part of a key chain. Who knows, a taser with a rounded shape like a flashlight, could be responsible for the circular marks on Julia's left elbow, as mentioned upthread. If LE could test all tasers to see which type will make the exact marks found on Julia's left elbow, this could narrow the search.

http://www.thehomesecuritysuperstore.com/self-defense-stun-guns-c=35

 

[Skigirl]

Thank you for that confirmation.

Could you tell me where the front door was located? If Julia was leading someone out of the apartment would her right side or left side be toward the door? My front door is to the right side of wall. From Julia's bedroom to the apartment's front door is the side I am looking for. Would she go left or right? My schedule lately is keeping me away from here but I always think about your granddaughter.

black_squirrel - I'm not so sure a stun gun was used and my reference about what hand she used normally was without a stun gun involved but I didn't clarify that difference before. Are these markings from a stun gun on her body? Something in the reports made me question about her main hand and if it was the left one.

For this to have gone down so quietly as it did Julia had to be controlled quickly, imo. If I look at this by my point of view that if someone grabbed my weaker arm, a fight is more likely since my stronger arm is free but grab that main arm now losing the fight becomes more likely. If the killer was known to Julia, they probably knew her left arm was the stronger of the two. Not saying this was a factor but in understanding how those abrasions maybe got there knowing which was her main arm is helpful to me.

I just don't see an intruder having time to deliberate about getting the dominant hand in what would have been a dynamic situation. It's hard enough to tell right from left when the person is oriented the way you are, but an intruder would have had to mentally reverse hands if she was facing him. It's even harder to discern left from right if someone is moving and you are viewing them from different angles, and it would be harder still to grab a specific hand. Even if an intruder did grab my dominant hand, I would be fighting like hell with my legs and my left arm AND screaming, so I don't think control over my dominant hand would be much of an advantage over having control over my non-dominant hand. I could see a scenario in which she naturally lashed out with her dominant hand and that hand was injured/marked. The stun gun theory is interesting but it seems a little bit "out there" IMHO. Still, stranger things have happened.

 

[Hatfield]

I just don't see an intruder having time to deliberate about getting the dominant hand in what would have been a dynamic situation. It's hard enough to tell right from left when the person is oriented the way you are, but an intruder would have had to mentally reverse hands if she was facing him. It's even harder to discern left from right if someone is moving and you are viewing them from different angles, and it would be harder still to grab a specific hand. Even if an intruder did grab my dominant hand, I would be fighting like hell with my legs and my left arm AND screaming, so I don't think control over my dominant hand would be much of an advantage over having control over my non-dominant hand. I could see a scenario in which she naturally lashed out with her dominant hand and that hand was injured/marked. The stun gun theory is interesting but it seems a little bit "out there" IMHO. Still, stranger things have happened.

I agree that the intruder probably did not care about which hand was dominant. But there are good points made about where she may have been standing and what may have happened.

The evidence of where the door knob was and where she got injured could tell LE what happened and where exactly the attack started.

It is either one of 2 different situations IMO. Either she was attacked as she answered the door. OR the perp was already in her apartment somehow and the perp attacked her while already inside.

I tend to think the latter since most of the struggle evidence was inside the apartment.

Whether she let him in willingly and knew him OR maybe he had a key and entered while she did not notice.

I think the stun gun is a possibility. Especially since it is coincidence that the laws got changed right about the time to allow people to buy them.

LE should check with all the local shops that started selling them to see if there is any record of purchases of stun guns. It may help to gather circumstantial evidence if a purchase of a stun gun was proved. Im not sure about the rules to buy one. Maybe there is record of purchases or maybe a video available of going into a store.

 

[black_squirrel]

Although I am not 100% sure about the stun gun, I cannot really think of anything else that would cause "two small circular abrasions on the left elbow area". But of course we don't really know where exactly on the elbow, how small the abrasions actually were, and how far apart they were.

Some tasers can be fired from a distance, but a stun gun can also be used by holding it against someone's skin. Since there are 2 electrodes,
it will leave 2 burn marks, at least when the skin is not covered with clothes.
https://books.google.com/books?id=8...&q=two small round abrasions stun gun&f=false

Here is an image of abrasions caused by a stun gun:
http://i.cbc.ca/1.2196542.138258765...erivatives/original_300/north-taser-marks.jpg

We don't know if Julia's abrasions near her elbow looked like that or not. But a pair of small round abrasions is typical for a stun gun.

 

[Trojan1966]

I have tried to contact Julia's roommate to get some info concerning the apartment but she has not answered me. I'm not sure how often she checks her email or whether or not she just won't answer me due to the last JT trial.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

Although I am not 100% sure about the stun gun, I cannot really think of anything else that would cause "two small circular abrasions on the left elbow area". But of course we don't really know where exactly on the elbow, how small the abrasions actually were, and how far apart they were.

Some tasers can be fired from a distance, but a stun gun can also be used by holding it against someone's skin. Since there are 2 electrodes,
it will leave 2 burn marks, at least when the skin is not covered with clothes.
https://books.google.com/books?id=8...&q=two small round abrasions stun gun&f=false

Here is an image of abrasions caused by a stun gun:
http://i.cbc.ca/1.2196542.138258765...erivatives/original_300/north-taser-marks.jpg

We don't know if Julia's abrasions near her elbow looked like that or not. But a pair of small round abrasions is typical for a stun gun.

If the marks on Julia's elbow are from a stun gun then, in my eyes, this was a planned event, with the pert's sole purpose being to assault and/or kill Julia. Reading through the link from the Handbook of Forensic Pathology, the stun gun section, it even mentions stun guns being used to disable victims in child/adult sex abuse crimes. I hope LE is able to track all stun gun sales for this reason alone. I know some states have a sex offender site to look up offenders by area, but IMO..that's not enough.

 

[georgiasblu]

I have tried to contact Julia's roommate to get some info concerning the apartment but she has not answered me. I'm not sure how often she checks her email or whether or not she just won't answer me due to the last JT trial.

I am very sorry Trojan, if that is the case. It disappoints me to no end regarding the character of the RM and it tells me how vindictive the ringleader actually is.