GUILTY MI - Renisha McBride, 19, shot while trying to get help, Detroit, Nov 2013

[KindraLore]

<mod snip>

Critical thinking only without bias to anything except what has been learned thus far is that we have learned is that it makes a difference regarding her alcohol level because her judgement was impaired and she was not thinking clearly; the assumption being that she may have scared the homeowner by banging or not acting right. That doesn't dispel the fact that he totally acted irrationally by shooting her either. But it makes sense.

I have seen a pic of her house and his. They looked a lot alike. I think she really thought it was her house and trying to get in. I do think he will be charged with something. Reckless use of a firearm at least, maybe manslaughter. BUT I truly do not believe he meant to kill her. It was just a perfect storm of a terrible situation. If she had gone to another another house, the homeowner would have probably just called the cops or even helped her. Instead she ended up at this house where the guy did not use his best judgement. If she had stayed at the scene, she may have been arrested but not dead. All of these circumstances lead to the end result and that is this young girl lost her life.

I feel terrible for her family and friends. I feel bad at the way this case was handled with cops saying she was dumped and the hype in the media but not much truth or substance. I think this is a tragedy. I will pray for everyone involved, especially her family to have some sort of peace. I can't imagine being in their shoes and having to bury their loved one under these circumstances and then just move on without her. It is completely devastating.

 

[Tawny]

I would think that no matter what state of mind she was in, whether she thought she was at her own house or not, it's likely that she was talking through the door. I doubt she was just knocking and trying the handle without saying a word. Even if she thought she was at her house, I would expect her to be saying the names of her family members, telling them to open the door. I would hope that the owner would've asked her what she wanted, but I haven't heard that yet. So he hears her voice, the voice of a woman, and he thinks she is trying to break-in and kill him? Also, considering that she was drunk, high, possibly had a concussion, it's likely that she wasn't being completely coherent...so wouldn't that make it more unlikely that she was planning some home invasion?

BBM

Respectfully, when I was a teenager, if I were trying to get into my house late at night knowing I was previously somewhere I shouldn't have been or doing something I shouldn't have been doing, I'd have been trying doors and windows to sneak in. Teenage mentality. She knows she wrecked her car, while drunk/high, and she knows she is going to be in a world of trouble.

Obviously this does not mean she "deserves" to die, I am simply addressing the statement that she wouldn't have been trying to "break in" to what she thought was her own home. She very well may have been.

[bbm]

Renisha did do several things wrong. It doesn't 'have to be' - it just is. That doesn't mean she deserved to die the way she did but she very easily could've been the one who killed someone that night. She drove massively drunk and under the influence of pot. She left the scene of her accident twice. If she was behaving strangely on a stranger's porch at 3:40 a.m., then there might be justification for shooting her IMO. We know what she did wrong ... what we don't know yet (but many are assuming) is whether the homeowner did anything wrong. I'm quite frankly, pissed off that so many people jumped on the bandwagon in witchhunting this guy. It seems to me to be a very tragic set of cirumstances but until the investigation reveals more, I won't assume more - just like I did not assume Renisha was under the influence until the toxicology results came back.

I agree with this.


This girl did not deserve to die. BUT, a homeowner does have the right to defend their home/family/life if they feel threatened, and he may have. WE know she was a young innocent girl who was scared and alone. HE may not have realized it (likely did not realize it at all). We have no way of knowing at this time, which is why I am still not going to pass judgment on the man (NOR on Renisha) until we have more information.

ETA: His actions regardless of what comes about are disappointing to say the VERY least. As a gun owner, this type of incident is preventable and tragic.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

BBM

Respectfully, when I was a teenager, if I were trying to get into my house late at night knowing I was previously somewhere I shouldn't have been or doing something I shouldn't have been doing, I'd have been trying doors and windows to sneak in. Teenage mentality. She knows she wrecked her car, while drunk/high, and she knows she is going to be in a world of trouble.

Obviously this does not mean she "deserves" to die, I am simply addressing the statement that she wouldn't have been trying to "break in" to what she thought was her own home. She very well may have been.



I agree with this.


This girl did not deserve to die. BUT, a homeowner does have the right to defend their home/family/life if they feel threatened, and he may have. WE know she was a young innocent girl who was scared and alone. HE may not have realized it (likely did not realize it at all). We have no way of knowing at this time, which is why I am still not going to pass judgment on the man (NOR on Renisha) until we have more information.

ETA: His actions regardless of what comes about are disappointing to say the VERY least. As a gun owner, this type of incident is preventable and tragic.

I don't think someone who is drunk, high, a possible concussion, and doesn't even realize that she is trying to enter the wrong house (if that is what happened) is going to be thinking that she better be as quiet as possible to make sure she doesn't get caught by her parents. Either she was thinking logically or she wasn't.

 

[tlcya]

I really hope tomorrow's presser clears up a lot of the questions in this case. With so little information as far as hard facts we are all just going with our own life's experiences and opinions in this thread IMO. And that is causing a circular debate that goes exactly nowhere.

 

[Tawny]

I don't think someone who is drunk, high, a possible concussion, and doesn't even realize that she is trying to enter the wrong house (if that is what happened) is going to be thinking that she better be as quiet as possible to make sure she doesn't get caught by her parents. Either she was thinking logically or she wasn't.

She likely was not thinking logically, which is my point. She also probably thought she was being as quiet as a church mouse My heart breaks for her and her family, and also for the man who has to live with this for the rest of his life. :twocents:

 

[Elainera]

If she thought this was her own house she might have tried her key but not getting anywhere, and he might have thought someone is trying to pick the lock.

If she was looking for help she probably would have used that word, "Help me, please open, I need help" or something similar. I don't think she was looking for help.

I wonder if his neighbors heard her calling or knocking or saying anything.

 

[nightwatch]

I really hope tomorrow's presser clears up a lot of the questions in this case. With so little information as far as hard facts we are all just going with our own life's experiences and opinions in this thread IMO. And that is causing a circular debate that goes exactly nowhere.

I agree with your post. One thing is clear this case is another poster child for the campaign DO NOT DRINK & DRIVE. Moo

Ciao

 

[Tawny]

A few years ago in Colorado, a young man (I can't remember if he was a teen or early 20s), while inebriated, tried to enter what he thought was his own home. When he couldn't get his key to work, he broke the back door window to try to open the door from the outside. The homeowner shot and killed him, assuming he was an intruder.

This situation reminds me of that, and both situations are complete and utter tragedies.

I hope we find out more information soon.

 

[CHERIE.T]

am I invisable

 

[Tawny]

am I invisable

:seeya: Not to me... I'm assuming we missed something you said/asked?

 

[CHERIE.T]

thanks Tawny, yep, I got no reply. lol

 

[Tawny]

thanks Tawny, yep, I got no reply. lol

That happens to me sometimes and I'm like hellooooooo people! LOL

I saw one of your posts asking who let her drive, legal age, etc. I'm not sure of anything except legal drinking age is 21.

 

[CHERIE.T]

ok, again thanks.

 

[CHERIE.T]

im trying to find information confirming where she was seen before leaving in her car.

 

[al66pine]

About multiple noises from different doors, windows, or parts of the house ---
seems she could have moved from one door to another to make noise trying to raise someone inside. A sleepy resident may not have been able to pinpoint sources of the noises immed’ly and may either thought that the noises were moving, or that there were multiple intruders.

W high BAL and THC in her system and possible concussion, were her actions in approaching the house quiet & stealthy? Or did she yell and pound on doors and yank at them?


It’s possible this resident endured actual or attempted break-ins, recently, over time, or both.
Maybe the houses next door, across the street, or up & down the block and the resident was aware of those break-ins.

Not saying any of the above are facts, just possibilities.
JM2 cts. :seeya:

 

[Karmady]

im trying to find information confirming where she was seen before leaving in her car.

imo,you're never going to hear about that. Which is a reason why I didn't respond to your question, btw. The family's attorney has said it's irrelevant that she was drunk and high. So they're obviously not going after the home or bar or friends or whomever that served her underage or let her leave chitfaced. And now, if they were even to try, whoever did that could point to the attorneys' statements as evidence that there was no causation.


jmo

 

[Nymeria]

Popping in on this one, it is local for me (I am north of the D).
Not read through all the posts on the thread yet though, all I really know is what my mom has told me. Her big concern when this happened was the victims family, and how they were claiming they knew a lot of things already (her cell was dead, she was looking for help, etc.)
It bothered my mom that her family seemed to know things no one would have known unless they were at the scene. I think Mom thought they were just saying the things that "sounded right". I kept asking her WHY they were saying all this, was it based on some knowledge they had. Seemed odd that they would make claims without some proof.
Anyway, I know pretty much nothing so will catch up on all your posts and see how this is shaking out.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

About multiple noises from different doors, windows, or parts of the house ---
seems she could have moved from one door to another to make noise trying to raise someone inside. A sleepy resident may not have been able to pinpoint sources of the noises immed’ly and may either thought that the noises were moving, or that there were multiple intruders.

W high BAL and THC in her system and possible concussion, were her actions in approaching the house quiet & stealthy? Or did she yell and pound on doors and yank at them?


It’s possible this resident endured actual or attempted break-ins, recently, over time, or both.
Maybe the houses next door, across the street, or up & down the block and the resident was aware of those break-ins.

Not saying any of the above are facts, just possibilities.
JM2 cts. :seeya:

But why the need to think of any possible scenario to absolve this man of blame/guilt? Multiple intruders...close to Detroit...houses looked similar...break-ins in the past and on and on. The lawyer for the owner hasn't even brought up any of these excuses yet.

 

[liljim]

About multiple noises from different doors, windows, or parts of the house ---
seems she could have moved from one door to another to make noise trying to raise someone inside. A sleepy resident may not have been able to pinpoint sources of the noises immed’ly and may either thought that the noises were moving, or that there were multiple intruders.

W high BAL and THC in her system and possible concussion, were her actions in approaching the house quiet & stealthy? Or did she yell and pound on doors and yank at them?


It’s possible this resident endured actual or attempted break-ins, recently, over time, or both.
Maybe the houses next door, across the street, or up & down the block and the resident was aware of those break-ins.

Not saying any of the above are facts, just possibilities.
JM2 cts. :seeya:

good post, thanx for pointing out that you arent claiming facts, just possibilities to try and understand what happened.

you dont sound like you are making excuses for this guy at all or saying he isnt guilty of anything, just trying to understand what could have happened.

cheers.

 

[tlcya]

I tend to feel where she was prior etc is not relevant to whether this homeowner acted improperly under the eyes of the law or not. The homeowner could have no knowledge of those actions and therefore they do not factor into his decisions that night.

The some of the victim's poor decisions are known due to the tox reports, and while they may have played a role in her behaviors that evening, the decision to drink or get high did not have anything to do with the homeowner's decision to shoot her. Some behaviors that MAY have been a result of her poor decision may have factored into his, such as MAYBE trying to get into his home but even all of that is still one big unknown.

I disagree with the homeowner's actions that night. I feel they were irresponsible at the least and maybe more but cannot say that without more info.

Cases like this just continue to come up and with each one it only cements my own distaste and disagreement with how SYG and castle doctrine is being interpreted and applied in general in this country.

Hurry up tomorrow. Please bring more info and clarity to this case.