MI MI - Tanner Lucas, Alexander William, & Andrew Ryan Skelton, Morenci, 26 Nov 2010 #2

[Katie267]

thanks everyone!!

 

[Wondergirl]

2 Short Audio Clips talking about searching with the planes, and eliminating "Joann Taylor" from their working theory of what happened to the boys:

WEEKS2

WEEKS1

http://www.wkhm.com/story.php?more_group=83&more_block=news&more_item=79949

 

[Reannan]

Found it:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...=GyUZYbALdUeo-afYBCBJ-A&cbp=11,198.79,,0,3.64

KAE, you are officially the "Map Goddess"! Thank you, thank you!!!! Surely, LE would have checked out an abandoned trucking facility, right?? It just seems like an obvious place to go if you needed privacy between 4:00 and 7:00 am on 11/26/2010. No one would be looking at an abandoned facility on the market the day after Thanksgiving at that hour. :waitasec:

 

[Cubby]

These details are very disturbing. They show a precedence (twice in 1 week?), and now, unfortunately, since it's the 3rd time, persistence.

And what family court judge allowed this man unsupervised visitation with his children? :banghead: :furious:

(forgive me if that has been answered already, I have not read the full thread.)

 

[Wondergirl]

They are using the dogs. Shown here searching near a junk yard:

Kris Ruhl of the Lenawee County Fire Dept. and his dog as they search near a junk yard on US 20 in Fulton County, Ohio. (Clarence Tabb, Jr./The Detroit News)​

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20101129...y--records-detail-family-fights#ixzz16jSpjFMx​

 

[jashrema]

so, with the new info about the divorce/custody stuff....the father did NOT kidnap them and take them to florida. They were legally married at the time, they were his children, he can take them anywhere he wants. It is still being said that he kidnapped them to florida but I guess he didn't if they were married at the time. I always thought that everyone saying he kidnapped them was bogus somehow cuz I would assume he would have been brought up on kidnapping charges then.

I'm wondering about the van again. I'm sure the dogs have been all over it. Obviously no blood. It's disconcerting that there have been no charges filed yet...even without bodies. It makes me wonder moreso than ever if he took these kids underground (I hope this is the case as that would mean they are alive)

 

[Wondergirl]

Bitter Custody Dispute: Jacksonville, FLA????​

Meanwhile, court records show the boys' father fought bitterly to retain custody of them and took them in September to Florida when he announced plans to move them to Jacksonville, Fla. It was the same day his wife filed for divorce. A judge later ordered them returned to Michigan.

John Skelton sought sole custody of the kids, citing his wife's stay on the state's sex offender list for an illegal 1998 relationship with an underage boy. John Skelton was denied custody, but on Oct. 11 won parenting time every other weekend and every Wednesday. ​

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20101129...y--records-detail-family-fights#ixzz16jTaAL4f​

​

 

[peeples]

Thanks wondergirl, the dog thing had been bugging me! I guess it just wasn't widely publicized

 

[Cubby]

so, with the new info about the divorce/custody stuff....the father did NOT kidnap them and take them to florida. They were legally married at the time, they were his children, he can take them anywhere he wants. It is still being said that he kidnapped them to florida but I guess he didn't if they were married at the time. I always thought that everyone saying he kidnapped them was bogus somehow cuz I would assume he would have been brought up on kidnapping charges then.

I'm wondering about the van again. I'm sure the dogs have been all over it. Obviously no blood. It's disconcerting that there have been no charges filed yet...even without bodies. It makes me wonder moreso than ever if he took these kids underground (I hope this is the case as that would mean they are alive)

BBM. Not necessarily, during divorce and custody proceedings a temporary custody order is granted while the divorce and custody issues work themself out. In some cases the courts might order the parents to not take the children out of state without the courts approval.

I just wish and pray the boys are found, and by some chance they are found alive.

 

[lucimhome]

so, with the new info about the divorce/custody stuff....the father did NOT kidnap them and take them to florida. They were legally married at the time, they were his children, he can take them anywhere he wants. It is still being said that he kidnapped them to florida but I guess he didn't if they were married at the time. I always thought that everyone saying he kidnapped them was bogus somehow cuz I would assume he would have been brought up on kidnapping charges then.

I'm wondering about the van again. I'm sure the dogs have been all over it. Obviously no blood. It's disconcerting that there have been no charges filed yet...even without bodies. It makes me wonder moreso than ever if he took these kids underground (I hope this is the case as that would mean they are alive)

I know nothing about going "underground" except from life time movies. In this day + age do they even still do that? Wouldn't he of needed proof They were in some kind of danger?
Something current and not from 12 years ago? Just asking cause I have no clue how someone would go about getting it done.

 

[Reannan]

Did the article say the dog was a trained SAR dog?? If not, I wonder why they aren't using SAR dogs?? I think it is very telling that LE has not listed this as a homicide investigation yet since they have custody of the van. I do not believe the boys were dead when they were placed in that van. God, I hate having these thoughts and I hate these kind of cases. So sad....

 

[Ransom]

so, with the new info about the divorce/custody stuff....the father did NOT kidnap them and take them to florida. They were legally married at the time, they were his children, he can take them anywhere he wants. It is still being said that he kidnapped them to florida but I guess he didn't if they were married at the time. I always thought that everyone saying he kidnapped them was bogus somehow cuz I would assume he would have been brought up on kidnapping charges then.

I'm wondering about the van again. I'm sure the dogs have been all over it. Obviously no blood. It's disconcerting that there have been no charges filed yet...even without bodies. It makes me wonder moreso than ever if he took these kids underground (I hope this is the case as that would mean they are alive)

Bold: Ummmmm, No he couldn't and thus he got slapped by the Judge. No one has the right to take kids out of school and run off with them. IMO

 

[peeples]

Did the article say the dog was a trained SAR dog?? If not, I wonder why they aren't using SAR dogs?? I think it is very telling that LE has not listed this as a homicide investigation yet since they have custody of the van. I do not believe the boys were dead when they were placed in that van. God, I hate having these thoughts and I hate these kind of cases. So sad....

No it didn't and goldens are used both in S&R and as cadaver dogs.. so hard to tell. Does look to have a tracking harness on and along lead, so probably NOT just a pet...

 

[tlcya]

I know nothing about going "underground" except from life time movies. In this day + age do they even still do that? Wouldn't he of needed proof They were in some kind of danger?
Something current and not from 12 years ago? Just asking cause I have no clue how someone would go about getting it done.

I think it would vary and depend totally on what sort of sincere wellmeaning but perhaps less than vigilant in checking facts sort of person was recruited??

 

[Kaybug]

Going underground popped into my mind this afternoon out of the blue. I dismissed the idea though. I didn't dismiss it for any particular reason I just didn't feel sure enough about it to think on it anymore.

 

[tlcya]

so, with the new info about the divorce/custody stuff....the father did NOT kidnap them and take them to florida. They were legally married at the time, they were his children, he can take them anywhere he wants. It is still being said that he kidnapped them to florida but I guess he didn't if they were married at the time. I always thought that everyone saying he kidnapped them was bogus somehow cuz I would assume he would have been brought up on kidnapping charges then.

I'm wondering about the van again. I'm sure the dogs have been all over it. Obviously no blood. It's disconcerting that there have been no charges filed yet...even without bodies. It makes me wonder moreso than ever if he took these kids underground (I hope this is the case as that would mean they are alive)

I understand your point through your vehemence in making it. I think what is being supposed and discussed is the probability that there was some wrangling in the custody that was getting ready to play out.

His documented failure to return the children at the agreed time is causing some to reach the conclusion that there was a custody issue in process. I think it is a fair assumption but there is still room for error.

Yes, they were his children but a judge seemed to think there was at least something hearable about this issue. Who knows how the court custody issue would have or will play out. But at the moment, LE says we have boys missing, dad in suicide attempt. Dad claiming he gave kids to a person LE can't confirm even exists. LE says boys in "Extreme Danger".

I think the speculation in this direction is warranted. It may be way off track. But it is not unexplainable or unwarranted.

ITA I hope all the dire specualtions are wrong. I hope they are with some wellmeaning person who has gotten themselves into someting way bigger and more serious than anticipated.

Kids go missing all the time. Messy divorce. Custody issues. What makes this one stand out is dad's FB post. Dad's claim of JT that LE STILL cannot confirm exists. Dad's suicide attempt gesture or sincere. Dad's prior history of not returning boys at alleged agreed upon time.

I am highly concerned.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Everything I read makes this sound like the profile of a family anhilator. (Yes, I know it's spelled wrong, sorry). The "FA" for short is the extreme on the scale of batterers. I'm not saying that this man battered his family, although if anything happened to those boys I reserve the right to change my mind. These are usually middle aged white males, isolated, who have suffered setbacks in life, (loss of job, marriage, etc.). They often have mental health issues but are NOT generally insane.

Batterers, like bank robbers or terrorists, or SOs, are a specific type of profile that generally speaking share distinct patterns of behavior. There doesn't necessarily need to be a history of consistently violent behavior, but a pattern of dominance and manipulation. Lundy Bancroft is a very respected voice for battered women, and any of his papers might offer insights into the personality of someone who would harm children to get back at a spouse for leaving. Google "Understanding the Batterer in Custody and Visitation Disputes."

To make matters worse, in cases like this, with serious allegations coming from BOTH sides, sometimes judges tend to just throw their hands up in the air, or mark it down to two people who just can't get along, when these cases are often the ones that require the most intense scrutiny, because the risk to children is greatest.

The police say he lied. If his children are alive, every second that goes by that he doesn't tell police how to find them and help them, his children continue to suffer. If the children are not alive, he is completely indifferent to the suffering of their mother, his own mother, their schoolmates, and all who love these children. If he had handed his children off to someone for their own safety, why commit suicide? Why say I love my wife and ask for forgiveness from her and God? Would you need God's forgiveness for protecting your children? Of course not. I see no remorse here.

I have been gathering data and putting together a presentation for my state senator and rep. I would like to ask him to sponsor a bill requiring a very low-level basic domestic violence threat assessment at the outset of every divorce case. Who gets the car and the house and Halloween can all wait until later, but issues of safety need to be immediately uncovered and appropriately addressed within the confines of the law. Would it have prevented this outcome? Maybe not, but maybe so, and the old adage applies that if even one child is saved, it's worth it.

 

[NSS]

Had a thought just now and had to come mention it.

When this story broke, the dad told us about the cyber stranger JT, and we have the kids physical descriptions, but we haven't heard what they were wearing.

4am would see kids in nightwear, later and they'd be fully dressed. Just wondered why we don't know what they were wearing. This is the one thing the dad could be honest about surely?

 

[lucimhome]

I think it would vary and depend totally on what sort of sincere wellmeaning but perhaps less than vigilant in checking facts sort of person was recruited??

Thnaks! He found someone to take him to the hospital. Which I don't understand. I in no way would of help him get to the hospital without seeing the boys or calling the person and talking to the boys. I just couldn't do it. From what has been release in the news it doesn't sound like he was all that hurt from his attempt.
Where are the boys?

 

[tlcya]

ty Irish eyes. I also was immediately drawn to the John List comparison.