Michelle Young ~ Pregnant Mother NC Part 3

[otto]

Given that it seems like Michelle was in full rigor at 1:30 in the afternoon, I'm guessing that she was dead for at least 12 hours when she was found, making the time of death between 10:30 (when friends left) and about 1:30 am. In fact, it makes the time of death rather convenient for Jason leaving the house and returning shortly after.

 

[close_enough]

Given that it seems like Michelle was in full rigor at 1:30 in the afternoon, I'm guessing that she was dead for at least 12 hours when she was found, making the time of death between 10:30 (when friends left) and about 1:30 am. In fact, it makes the time of death rather convenient for Jason leaving the house and returning shortly after.

hmmmm.....(sighs)

maybe we'll hear something tomorrow.....
my eyes are getting veeerrrry heavy....bye folks

 

[jilly]

I think I know why this isn't a forum yet.It happens to be the case at CTV too. It is obvious that enough suspicions arise and that this case will be solved quickly. We saw Imette's forum go quietly when a suspect was arrested.

I, personally, think every victim should get a forum but that isn't reasonable. There are so many crimes, it takes our breathe away.

For victims everywhere.We never stop looking, we have pause in our endeavors

I don't know why this isn't a forum yet. I'm comparing the Entwistle case. We got a forum there in the early stages and now we're all just waiting for the trial which will be next April.

With the Entwistle case, however, the DA had a press conference and there was alot of media attention. Here, we haven't got much at all.

 

[otto]

yes Otto...thanks for posting that again....

wonder when we'll hear an update, at least confirming the ME's time of death????....that should be coming out soon, wouldn't yall think??...that wouldn't be something that LE would necessarily want 'sealed', right???

i know that LE wanted info from anyone that saw (or didn't see ) anything betw the hours of midnight & 6 am, but the ME can pinpoint TOD closer than that....

I think the police are interested in the time between midnight and 5 or 6 in the morning ... I suppose because they're thinking the person might have spent a little time cleaning up before hitting the road. I don't think they'll release a time of death because it will pin down their time line and for now, I wouldn't be surprised if they want to leave it fairly open to accommodate as many suspects as possible.

I'm so tired I'm babbling ... too much to deal with today. I should find a pillow. Night.

 

[scandi]

Thanks Otto, Now I wish we had access to a crime lab so we could hear every word little Cassidy said. I'm sure this is one of the first things LE did as she was so astute and talkative. We don't know yet, but Cassidy could have been the miracle for Michelle's justice.

We know this LE organization moves slower than a slug, and add to that they are going to want all their ducks in a row and back up proof of guilt in many areas before they actually make an arrest. Even if they can clearly hear this 2 1/2 year old telling her story and chirping up in the background throughout the tape, I don't think they feel they can take that to court to convict him as she is so young.

But believe me, I think it has given them an edge in their investigation, and now they need to cover every base until the prosecutor says OK, lets go see the judge!

Charlie, I thought your idea about how it went down were right on.

Close, when you three listened to the tape, did you hear that word Daddy after Meredith asked Cassidy what happened to her Mommy?

Scandi

 

[jilly]

She was still in rigor it sounds like when she was found - stiff. There is a time when rigor softens,

I didn't know this Scandi - thanks!

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Given that it seems like Michelle was in full rigor at 1:30 in the afternoon, I'm guessing that she was dead for at least 12 hours when she was found, making the time of death between 10:30 (when friends left) and about 1:30 am. In fact, it makes the time of death rather convenient for Jason leaving the house and returning shortly after.

Hey, otto - indeed! With LE specifically asking if locals had seen a vehicle from between midnight and 6:00 am that they believe (or have reason to believe) she was alive for about an hour (ish) after the friends left. Perhaps there was evidence Michelle had showered, prepared stuff for the following day ... phone logs might indicate as much. And yes, even though my views are premature, lol, looks as though it's feasible to suggest Jason had a window of opportunity to return.

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

I didn't know this Scandi - thanks!

Hi jilly! full rigor may take up to 12 hours ... and then the body goes limp again. Rigor speeds up/slows down under certain temperature and surrounding conditions (different in, say ice cold water to humid to hot dry locations).

(May be gruesome so opt not to read if you're squeamish ---->) Also, lividity helps establsih 'how long' the body has been in a specific position - that being the pooling of the blood under the body (drawn by gravity) and that gives dark purple bruising and the upper part of the body becomes very pale and translucent.

By the number, density and pattern of bloody footprints from Cassie, I'm sure ME/Coroner will be able to tell how long Michelle bled for, prior to death. There had to be a substantial amount of blood as (obviously) Cassie couldn't step into blood under her mother's body.

The ME might even go so far as to say that despite the blunt-force injuries causing her death, it's indeed possible Michelle may have bled to death first. If this is the case, we might assume a longer period of time to die, despite Michelle being conscious, or not. To assume she was knocked out - well - again, I refer to Chris Porco's mother. Suffice to say this was a heinous, brutal attack - and with nothing else seriously damaged, missing - may have been the sole reason for the perp to enter the home!

ME would also look at coagulation... and if Michelle fought back. That's why in an earlier post I'm convinced JY also had body-shots taken. Just a guess, tho!

Earlier suggestions in all these pages seem to indicate most posters are of the opinion Michelle may have been found in bed. Indeed this may very well be so - my only thought there is the absorbtion of blood on bedclothes, etc. If Cassie regularly climbed up and onto, then off, the bed, Cassie would have been covered in blood and - in addition to footprints - there'd have been little fingerprints and smears, etc.

But that's just my own opinion - and of course based on sheer speculation as absolutely no details have emerged, lol.

Horrible, horrible ...

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

It is an interesting tape and she from what I hear, she says Daddy ... when asked what happened. I have to listen to it again more carefully to really know what else is there.

As to rigor, I posted this way back on the first thread:

"For the first hour after death, the body temperature will fall from its normal level (of about 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit) at a rate of roughly one and a half to two degrees per hour for the first twelve hours. This depends on the build of the victim, the amount of clothing or covering, and the temperature around them- if, for instance, the body is in the water the temperature will fall much quicker.
There are also other signs that can help with determining the time of death. Usually about two hours of the person dying, rigor mortis sets in. Which is a Latin term meaning "the stiffness of death". The internal chemistry of the body changes from its normal acid state to an alkaline one. This causes the muscles which were once relaxed at the time of death to tense and stiffen. Rigor mortis begins with the eyelids and then progresses to the muscles of the face, and then to the arms, torso and finally the legs. Within twelve hours rigor mortis has been fully established and the body is stiff and as unbending as a block of unbending wood. The body can remain in this condition for any time between twelve and forty-eight hours, until the body returns to a natural acid state. This reverse process affects the muscles in the same order in which rigor mortis stiffened them from the eyelids to the legs." I confirmed it with a second link but this one is here:
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1501608

Hi again, otto!

Thanks for this link! Gosh, perhaps I'm into gory discovery, but I find this very interesting.

I 'can't watch' real life operations etc on TV, but when it comes to a body, body-details are not so freaky to me. I mentioned this to a doc at a hospital once and he instantly replied: "That's because you're imaging pain, watching pulsations and moving, living blood and flesh; in a body - such investigations do not give rise to pain and they're lifeless..."

I was relieved to have been awarded a professional excuse and rational response, as I thought I had 'mysterious dark corners' in my mind! Nevertheless, I do read up on a lot of these things.

Sorry ... rambling again ...

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

i haven't checked out ctv, since i've been back home this evening, but there seems to be no more info than there is here....a lot of the same speculation...lots of folks are very 'into' this case....BTW, it got brought up at the bowling alley this afternoon....a lady i sit with occasionally said something about Greta's show...i brought up this case & she knew exactly what i was talking about....she's very interested in it also....

again, here's hoping justice is served for Michelle, her family & friends....

Hi close

So many questions .... your bowling alley story confirms this one is going to be watched closely! My mind is secured on Jason - and not because of the media, I have to add (clearly, this story has not swamped press). Simply based on sketchy details of his actions/whereabouts - prior to and since Michelle's gruesome murder.

Night! See ya tomorrow! :blowkiss:

 

[jilly]

Thanks Otto for posting that again - I wonder how I ever missed that?lol.

And PolkSaladAnnie Thank you very much for taking the time to explain to me. I find this all very interesting too.

Well, like Close commented - Hope we get the MEs report soon. That ought to give us a few more pages! hehe.

 

[scandi]

Thanks PolkSaladAnnie for telling us about your doctors conversation. It does allay fears of those in dire straits and peril, and they probably have no pain at that point, and is in our minds only because we see how they have suffered.

Close, I just read that whole thread on the case at CTV and am coming back with a horriffic headache! The posters we know that post there were so admirable. They are now bringing up the safety child gate again, and though we have no idea if there was one, many believe it is only reasonable there was one. We just need more info.

What they have there is a poster who is a friend of Michelle's husband and a Raleigh police officer posting. So you have to say the right thing in response or it is easily misinterpreted.

Did I learn anything new? Not much. I learned Jason was in and out of court last week in a flash when they got the warrant for his DNA, etc. needs. I don't know what time Meredith found the body, and that would help.

Scandi

 

[strach304]

Scandi, I hope you and others don't think I'm the poster on ctv that's throwing around the baby gate stuff as fact. I read there which is known but never post there. This is what I think happened; I brought it up here last night, the poster on ctv read it and tossed it out as fact. If you look at the way that poster started the subject it makes sense. Out of nowhere they state "at least the killer was nice enough to close the baby gate" and from there you see everyone asking where that info came from, links etc.

I think my original post here about it is on the end of the part 2 thread. I did make it clear it was supposition not fact. A logical deduction by me simply drawn from life experiences and what info is available on the case so far. I'm not gonna post over there either and whether there was or wasn't a baby gate it won't solve the crime.

 

[otto]

Thanks PolkSaladAnnie for telling us about your doctors conversation. It does allay fears of those in dire straits and peril, and they probably have no pain at that point, and is in our minds only because we see how they have suffered.

Close, I just read that whole thread on the case at CTV and am coming back with a horriffic headache! The posters we know that post there were so admirable. They are now bringing up the safety child gate again, and though we have no idea if there was one, many believe it is only reasonable there was one. We just need more info.

What they have there is a poster who is a friend of Michelle's husband and a Raleigh police officer posting. So you have to say the right thing in response or it is easily misinterpreted.

Did I learn anything new? Not much. I learned Jason was in and out of court last week in a flash when they got the warrant for his DNA, etc. needs. I don't know what time Meredith found the body, and that would help.

Scandi

Meredith found the body around 1:30 in the afternoon and Jason's family was notified about 2ish. Jason spoke briefly with the police in the afternoon, but he wouldn't have arrived back in Raleigh until at least 5 hours after notification so it seems that the only conversation that he had with the police was on the phone.

There is still the question about the Honda. Apparently posters at CTV are saying that Jason is driving around in Michelle's honda, but research shows that the Young's had a SUV and a Lexus. The Honda was parked in front of the house overnight from Nov 3 - 4. This could lead one to believe that the Honda belongs to Meredith and she left the car at the house rather than drive it after finding Michelle's body. I have a question: has the poster that has inside information said anything about the Honda being Michelle's car?

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Thanks PolkSaladAnnie for telling us about your doctors conversation. It does allay fears of those in dire straits and peril, and they probably have no pain at that point, and is in our minds only because we see how they have suffered.

Close, I just read that whole thread on the case at CTV and am coming back with a horriffic headache! The posters we know that post there were so admirable. They are now bringing up the safety child gate again, and though we have no idea if there was one, many believe it is only reasonable there was one. We just need more info.

What they have there is a poster who is a friend of Michelle's husband and a Raleigh police officer posting. So you have to say the right thing in response or it is easily misinterpreted.

Did I learn anything new? Not much. I learned Jason was in and out of court last week in a flash when they got the warrant for his DNA, etc. needs. I don't know what time Meredith found the body, and that would help.

Scandi

Hi Scandi; y/w ... I find so much education in reading about the mindset of these monsters; the tell-tale signs that lead up to such acts (whether it's a personal or stranger crime) as well as this insatiable interest to know and understand the details - and what tjose details mean. And juding by the incredible high number of members at various websites - we're quite a club!

Indeed, I so agree with you about this being in our mids to see how others have suffered; we become more aware. There are the odd posters who are simply 'curious' for a week or two covering one crime, there are often family members, LE and other 'insiders' that genuinely post - perhaps remaining for the duration of one case only.

Those of us that have been posting for years, clearly we have a strong interest. For the better part, a familiar name or hat that we see regularly becomes a 'trusted voice or reconized fellow poster'. We may not always agree & sometimes never even respond - but longivity, imo, gives the 'nod' that poster may have come here (example) through a personal experience and stayed to enjoy the companionship and ongoing investigations! You've scattered seeds of care in so many forums and threads, as have others - well, you're just a dearly loved poster, Scandi!

Me? Heh, I'm a rambling, sporadic, by-stander, lurk more than I post, but this case has gotten to me. lol (tee hee, I know, know .... I asked for that -----> :slap

PrayersForMaura really stirred my heartstrings (def not PFM's intent) when I realized I hadn't given Janet's case a post and a good dousing nof my feelings (I read it, tho). I asked myself WHYYYY??? To go in now, I feel may look insincere - but I s'pose we gotta start somewhere.

OK. Back to topic ...


[Eeeeuw. Sorry above so long... er, as there are no press releases, I thought I'd just ramble and post away, lol )

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Scandi, I hope you and others don't think I'm the poster on ctv that's throwing around the baby gate stuff as fact. I read there which is known but never post there.

I think my original post here about it is on the end of the part 2 thread. I did make it clear it was supposition not fact. A logical deduction by me simply drawn from life experiences and what info is available on the case so far. I'm not gonna post over there either and whether there was or wasn't a baby gate it won't solve the crime.

Hi strach, funnily enough I saw that, too - and honestly: No, I didn't for the life of me think it was you under another nic, lol. I've seen *other* posts there adopt phrases that are virtually word for word from over here! This is also true on another well-known blog. You'd have more likely noticed something very similar to what you wrote - than notice what else may seem similar.

Personally people that do this may not be free thinkers - or they like to be 'first with the latest concept' ... Er, forum 'wannanbes' lol. Now isn't that the pits??? LOLLL. But - we've also often witnessed 'cross-pollination' throughout forums - which is bound to happen due to the similar 'facts' and 'tips' that emerge in the media.

As an aside: I've read CTV's thread a - z. Seems there are (imo) maybe 4 folk there 'close' to this, covering similar topics we've covered here. I don't swallow all that the (insider) poster over there has to say. One early post was virtually a word-for-word repeat of comments made on two other blogs and a media 'comments' page! That's when, in Michelle's 1st thread here, I felt this went over and above an opinion - felt more like a campaign to me.

(Should I change my nic to RamblinOleRose? Ooops! ------> :silenced:

 

[MrsMush99]

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-lislay1115,0,6433065.story?coll=ny-linews-headlines

"News reports have stated that Jason Young called his wife's sister, Meridith Fisher, on the morning of Nov. 3, asking that she drop by the house to pick up a fax he didn't want his wife to see. She entered the home and found her sister's lifeless body on her bed.
During the 911 call, Meridith Fisher frantically states that the house doesn't look as it usually does, and that Cassidy's tiny footprints, marked with her mother's blood, are all around the house."

Otto, I was responding to Mystery's question of whether or not she was ready for bed, in bed clothes. We don't have any idea where Michelle was when she was FIRST attacked.

 

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Thanks Otto for posting that again - I wonder how I ever missed that?lol.

And PolkSaladAnnie Thank you very much for taking the time to explain to me. I find this all very interesting too.

Well, like Close commented - Hope we get the MEs report soon. That ought to give us a few more pages! hehe.

Y/w, jilly ...

 

[fran]

I've gotta work again today so won't be able to contribute much. I'm still waiting for Jason to talk to LE.

Does he want this case solved or not?!

Jason, where are you?

JMHO
fran

 

[raisincharlie]

Meredith found the body around 1:30 in the afternoon and Jason's family was notified about 2ish. Jason spoke briefly with the police in the afternoon, but he wouldn't have arrived back in Raleigh until at least 5 hours after notification so it seems that the only conversation that he had with the police was on the phone.

There is still the question about the Honda. Apparently posters at CTV are saying that Jason is driving around in Michelle's honda, but research shows that the Young's had a SUV and a Lexus. The Honda was parked in front of the house overnight from Nov 3 - 4. This could lead one to believe that the Honda belongs to Meredith and she left the car at the house rather than drive it after finding Michelle's body. I have a question: has the poster that has inside information said anything about the Honda being Michelle's car?

Otto,

Sorry I didn't get this back last night, Monday night is Forza league and I never miss out so I neglected the board. My friend with MHP checked a few things - Meredith Lynn Fisher - 2004 Honda Civic - the Youngs 2000 Lexis and 2004 Mitsubishi. I did not ask for plate numbers because my own thought is that is going too far for a public forum. Apparently all three of these vehicles have at one time been taken in for forensics, two have been returned, one has not been. Lets say it is more likely that Meredith is driving her Honda rather than Jason.