Miley Cyrus - what the heck happened?

[Maxymoo]

Lohan Spears an MC parents all had nasty splits. As child stars their reality was quite different to what they had to face next.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I have read quite a few comments from different pages on this. Someone above said it was a generational thing. Most of the comments I have read even from her generation said it was gross and over the top.

The other thing I have noticed is the amount of guys her age commenting, and not good, we all know the words they are using....rhymes with tank is one of the nicer. Most are saying how unattractive they found it.

I do hope Miley and other girls read those types of comments, I think too many girls these days think they have to show it all and show how much they like sex and could be up for it to appear to be attractive and sexy. I think (and judging by the males comments I have read) they are getting it so wrong. The girl that Ashton Kutcher goes out with, I can not remember her first name, starts with M and surname Kunis has been voted by males as the sexiest girl at the moment.

I have not seen her dancing around showing all her bits to prove she is sexy. In fact she is a pretty, feminine, strong, funny girl.

I feel like this is putting way too much importance on what guys find appealing. Plus, the idea that guys don't like celebrity girls who show skin is pretty far from the truth. Yeah, there were probably many who thought Miley's performance was "trashy" but you can look up any pictures of any celebrity woman considered "hot" by men, and you'll find plenty of pictures of them not wearing much.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I feel like this is putting way too much importance on what guys find appealing. Plus, the idea that guys don't like celebrity girls who show skin is pretty far from the truth. Yeah, there were probably many who thought Miley's performance was "trashy" but you can look up any pictures of any celebrity woman considered "hot" by men, and you'll find plenty of pictures of them not wearing much.

Even scantily clad one can still have class, elegance and command respect.

IMO Miley looked and behaved like a comedic drag act

 

[gitana1]

Actually no, it's pretty bog standard to characterize the type of criticism Miley is getting as "*advertiser censored* shaming". It refers not just to actual sexual activities and habits, but perceptions of such, as well as characterizing dress/appearance/etc as slutty or any of its related adjectives. Here's one item I found from a quick Google, from back in 2010, describing *advertiser censored* shaming, and it includes exactly this type of behavior:

http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2010/04/04/what-is-*advertiser censored*-shaming/

Not to mention the misogynism inherent in body shaming ("she doesn't even have curves!", "she's shaped like a boy!", "she's not even pretty!").

That's a false equivalence. Little girls are little girls, who haven't even gone through puberty, and can't consent to what is being done to them in those venues. There is absolutely no comparison between a 20 year old woman freely deciding how she presents herself, and say, a 10 year old dressed in a sexualized costume.

Do you not see how your equation of "selling sex for money" as being something "wrong" with women, is demeaning to sex workers who choose to be such, and worse, to women who don't choose that profession freely but instead are exploited into such a position?

Ok, these are valid criticisms, and totally worth having a discussion about. I agree the performance was problematic for a few reasons. But that isn't the discussion that's going on here, or elsewhere. The focus has continually been on shaming Miley as "trashy", "slutty", "gross", "ugly", "unattractive", "vulgar". Not about say, her exploited childhood, or about how it possibly is damaging to women. Nor does anyone make mention of Robin Thicke's participation in that.

Dunno about that. I don't think so, based on your posting history, which I have always admired, fwiw.

I don't even know how to respond to this. With respect, it's just not logical to me at all.

*advertiser censored* shaming is trying to cause a woman to feel embarrassment about being a sexual being. It's about trying to make someone feel slutty for being a normal person. It's about depicting as slutty, normal sexuality. It's not about criticizing a woman for crassly approximating the misogynistic interpretation of sexiness (actual sluttiness). You know, the kind of sexuality created by men for men? I mean, if you are interpreting *advertiser censored* shaming as criticizing actual slutty behavior, or characterizing the behavior, mannerisms and style of hookers as negative, then you have a vastly different understanding than me.

There is a usefulness for shame. But the kind of moral relativism you appear to be espousing basically states that right or wrong is always subjective or contextual or cultural and thus ever criticizing behaviors as wrong is inappropriately judgmental.

Sorry, friend, I find that to be ridiculous.

I absolutely see something wrong with selling sex for money. I mean what dream world are we in when prostitution is seen as just another job choice? Should it be legalized and regulated? I think so. Do I hate women who sell sex for a living? Of course not. Do I feel sorry for them. Absolutely. Would I ever want my daughter to do such work? Hell no. (Would you?)

You say I am demeaning sex workers/strippers/*advertiser censored* actors by ascribing a negative connotation to what they do. No, they are demeaning themselves. And most do so because they have no other way out. 99.9% of female prostitutes, strippers and *advertiser censored* actresses have been molested as a child. What is portrayed in most *advertiser censored* is not reality. It is a depiction of certain men's views as to what is sexually exciting. Most women find it to be incredibly debasing and anti-feminist.

Stripping? The current most predominant form - like the kind Miley was imitating - was again, created by men for men.

Having sex with strange men for money? It is an exceeding rarity that these women enjoy their work. I see prostitutes come into my office on a weekly basis. I know the reality of their lives. I have heard the stories from men who frequent prostitutes as well. Being beaten or robbed by Johns. Having sex while past the point of exhaustion. Having sex while blood gushes form their vagina from overwork and disease. If you think any negativity surrounding this work is subjective, I don't know what to say. There's no point in talking further. That takes moral relativism to such a degree that we might as well say no one should judge pedophilia because whether or not getting turned on by little kids is right or wrong is purely subjective.

Yes, IMO, prancing around like a stripper or costuming oneself like a prostitute is negative. It's gross, it's sad and it's pathetic, when coupled with nothing else. "Sluttiness", which is what this is, with no message, no talent, no artistry, is crap. Not art.

And that's what our conversation has been about.

Miley Cyrus was an exploited child star who grew up to have money but not much of anything else. She had opportunities to be someone. Instead, this is what she has become. I have a problem with that.

I find it ironic that the very behavior feminists used to decry as an example of violence against women and the exploitation and degradation of females by the patriarchy is now being embraced as a positive example of self-expression, when exhibited by very young stars who have been served up on a platter by their stage parents to money grubbing, soulless producers.

Please. This is just sad to me.

 

[gitana1]

Hey, and didn't Robin come off as a sleaze? I thought so anyway, I mean I already thought he was a douche, but that one sealed it.

He did. Ick. Standing there fully clothed as a half-naked girl 16 years younger offers her private parts to his crotch as he hovers tall and she bends over. Did I say ick?

But mostly he came off to me as Miley's prop. And apparently he is realizing that now.

In any event, he is another no-talent example of nepotism IMO. He sang off key and I don't get the excitement over a summer hit he co-wrote which heavily borrowed from Marvin Gaye.

He's Alan Thicke's son. I think that's clearly why he is where he is today.

 

[LinasK]

I don't even know how to respond to this. With respect, it's just not logical to me at all.

*advertiser censored* shaming is trying to cause a woman to feel embarrassment about being a sexual being. It's about trying to make someone feel slutty for being a normal person. It's about depicting as slutty, normal sexuality. It's not about criticizing a woman for crassly approximating the misogynistic interpretation of sexiness (actual sluttiness). You know, the kind of sexuality created by men for men? I mean, if you are interpreting *advertiser censored* shaming as criticizing actual slutty behavior, or characterizing the behavior, mannerisms and style of hookers as negative, then you have a vastly different understanding than me.

There is a usefulness for shame. But the kind of moral relativism you appear to be espousing basically states that right or wrong is always subjective or contextual or cultural and thus ever criticizing behaviors as wrong is inappropriately judgmental.

Sorry, friend, I find that to be ridiculous.

I absolutely see something wrong with selling sex for money. I mean what dream world are we in when prostitution is seen as just another job choice? Should it be legalized and regulated? I think so. Do I hate women who sell sex for a living? Of course not. Do I feel sorry for them. Absolutely. Would I ever want my daughter to do such work? Hell no. (Would you?)

You say I am demeaning sex workers/strippers/*advertiser censored* actors by ascribing a negative connotation to what they do. No, they are demeaning themselves. And most do so because they have no other way out. 99.9% of female prostitutes, strippers and *advertiser censored* actresses have been molested as a child. What is portrayed in most *advertiser censored* is not reality. It is a depiction of certain men's views as to what is sexually exciting. Most women find it to be incredibly debasing and anti-feminist.

Stripping? The current most predominant form - like the kind Miley was imitating - was again, created by men for men.

Having sex with strange men for money? It is an exceeding rarity that these women enjoy their work. I see prostitutes come into my office on a weekly basis. I know the reality of their lives. I have heard the stories from men who frequent prostitutes as well. Being beaten or robbed by Johns. Having sex while past the point of exhaustion. Having sex while blood gushes form their vagina from overwork and disease. If you think any negativity surrounding this work is subjective, I don't know what to say. There's no point in talking further. That takes moral relativism to such a degree that we might as well say no one should judge pedophilia because whether or not getting turned on by little kids is right or wrong is purely subjective.

Yes, IMO, prancing around like a stripper or costuming oneself like a prostitute is negative. It's gross, it's sad and it's pathetic, when coupled with nothing else. "Sluttiness", which is what this is, with no message, no talent, no artistry, is crap. Not art.

And that's what our conversation has been about.

Miley Cyrus was an exploited child star who grew up to have money but not much of anything else. She had opportunities to be someone. Instead, this is what she has become. I have a problem with that.

I find it ironic that the very behavior feminists used to decry as an example of violence against women and the exploitation and degradation of females by the patriarchy is now being embraced as a positive example of self-expression, when exhibited by very young stars who have been served up on a platter by their stage parents to money grubbing, soulless producers.

Please. This is just sad to me.

Thank-you for this eloquent post! You stated it so much better than I could. It seems anytime lately that one criticizes a female- being it murderer Jodi Arias, or female celebrity Miley Cyrus- it's labeled *advertiser censored*-shaming, despite their behaviors. It's like the new "haters" term.
What Miley Cyrus is doing-whether she enjoys her show or not- is not appropriate for pre-teens to see, I don't want to see (I'm also a feminist and not 70), and is setting back feminism by viewing women solely as sex-objects and body parts, not valued for their minds.

 

[gitana1]

My 12-year-old did NOT watch the show, yet she had seen Miley's outfit because it was all over the media. So for not just performing for her "target" audience, all ages have at least seen Miley's outfit, if not the video. I caught it on HLN, of all places, while looking for coverage of Jodi Arias's hearing on Mon!

I understand. It is a serious struggle for parents today to teach their kids about what is real and healthy and what's not. When all kids see is tongue thrusting and sexual gyrations from the scantily clad stars, it is hard for them to understand that that might not be normal, female sexuality. That women can be mature, sexual beings without resorting to such behavior.

There's no beauty, no grace to this stuff. Nothing redeeming. And the sad thing is that pre-teen girls see so much of it and are so impressionable, they can't help but be affected by it.

 

[LinasK]

I feel like this is putting way too much importance on what guys find appealing. Plus, the idea that guys don't like celebrity girls who show skin is pretty far from the truth. Yeah, there were probably many who thought Miley's performance was "trashy" but you can look up any pictures of any celebrity woman considered "hot" by men, and you'll find plenty of pictures of them not wearing much.

It wasn't the outfit- it was the behavior- rubbing her butt in his face and simulating masturbation with the foam finger. That's what was vulgar and offensive, just like Michael Jackson's crotch grabbing.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Oh so agree, he set off my douche-o-meter from very early days. I read an article from his wife early on saying she used to hide in the bushes in the front of his house to try and catch him cheating, there's a reason for that .. women should trust their instincts sometimes. http://www.news.com.au/entertainmen...hiding-in-bushes/story-e6frfmq9-1226705438898 Regardless, seems like everyone got bad advice.

 

[LinasK]

Hey, and didn't Robin come off as a sleaze? I thought so anyway, I mean I already thought he was a douche, but that one sealed it.

Yet he claims his wife is okay with his performance. I really feel sorry for this woman. If it were me, I couldn't divorce him fast enough after that...

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Yet he claims his wife is okay with his performance. I really feel sorry for this woman. If it were me, I couldn't divorce him fast enough after that...

I see a cheating scandal followed by a divorce in his future .. since they've been together since high school she should do fine out of it.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

It wasn't the outfit- it was the behavior- rubbing her butt in his face and simulating masturbation with the foam finger. That's what was vulgar and offensive, just like Michael Jackson's crotch grabbing.

The foam finger .. baaaaaahahahahahaaaar!!! That's what sent it over the edge, IMO.

 

[Jetaime]

I've never been all about "girl power" or feminism, I guess that's why I don't & hopefully never WILL agree with the whole "she's just expressing her sexuality & enjoying thrusting her near naked *advertiser censored* to the beat of the wind (in front of the nation lol) notion. That's why I asked my previous question when this thread veered from "What happened to Miley" to "What happened to Thicke"? Never in the history of histories have I ever seen such a sleazy performance by a MAN. I'm not talking lyrics, or being a prop. I mean straight butt riding tighty whiteys with the same tongue, foam finger, *advertiser censored* to the audience, in the air back & forth kinda yuck as that. Never. Anyway, Im just curious if those in agreement with world wide sexual displays (by men or woman) will raise their children to publicly display their "sexuality" in the name of equality?

Sent from my LG-VM696 using Tapatalk 2

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I've never been all about "girl power" or feminism, I guess that's why I don't & hopefully never WILL agree with the whole "she's just expressing her sexuality & enjoying thrusting her near naked *advertiser censored* to the beat of the wind (in front of the nation lol) notion. That's why I asked my previous question when this thread veered from "What happened to Miley" to "What happened to Thicke"? Never in the history of histories have I ever seen such a sleazy performance by a MAN. I'm not talking lyrics, or being a prop. I mean straight butt riding tighty whiteys with the same tongue, foam finger, *advertiser censored* to the audience, in the air back & forth kinda yuck as that. Never. Anyway, Im just curious if those in agreement with world wide sexual displays (by men or woman) will raise their children to publicly display their "sexuality" in the name of equality?

Sent from my LG-VM696 using Tapatalk 2

What about Justin Timberlake ripping off Janet Jackson's shirt at the Super Bowl to reveal her breasts? I think that was pretty sleazy. Yet, it pretty much ended Janet's career, while Justin still has a strong one. I wonder why.

And the reason why men might not perform as "sleazy" as women is because we demand that women (especially young pop stars) be sexually appealing. It's not the same for men. I just don't get these comments praising the men because they keep their clothes on, while women are criticized because they take them off. That's due to the patriarchal society we live in.

 

[LJKaust]

What about Justin Timberlake ripping off Janet Jackson's shirt at the Super Bowl to reveal her breasts? I think that was pretty sleazy. Yet, it pretty much ended Janet's career, while Justin still has a strong one. I wonder why.

And the reason why men might not perform as "sleazy" as women is because we demand that women (especially young pop stars) be sexually appealing. It's not the same for men. I just don't get these comments praising the men because they keep their clothes on, while women are criticized because they take them off. That's due to the patriarchal society we live in.

Well, according to most of the comments I have read by the under 25's, they are confused by what she was trying to do :scared: She didn't go out there all girl power, strong, brave and smart. She went out there and made a FOOL of herself and not because she was scantily clothed, not because she was twerking and not because of the foam finger, but because of the confusing and stupid circus that accompanied all of that. Robin Thicke made me want to barf, i have already said as much.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I'm getting old. I had no idea what twerking was either.

How to Twerk | Club Dance Moves - YouTube

Oh my freakin back!!!! Thanks a lot Steeley for posting that educational video.....

Am I the only one that had to try that? :blushing:

On another note....

I can't help wonder if whoever orchestrated this doesn't like her. The drugged looking teddy bears (pedo bears), the creepy older married dude prop, the fact that she does look much younger and the absolutely gross display of sexual behavior makes me wonder if some pedophile didn't create this idea. This was completely lacking of talent, art and extremely distasteful.

It was creepy!!

Yuck!

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Can someone please tell me where the tags (below) come from? I've never understood how they get there. as mentioned earlier.....they're hysterical lol!

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Jay Leno: "Hannah Montana became Lydia Chlamydia lol!"

 

[kline]

Again, never has there been this level of disdain and criticism on the part of FELLOW entertainers. Not with Madonna, not with Aguilera, Minaj, Britney.

Why?

Yes, it is very true that Miley wanted a reaction and
Buzz. Her twitter portends what is to come as she declared before the show that she was going to F up some *advertiser censored* at the VMAs.

But in the past, controversy and provocation has been coupled with some level of entertainment. The only level this reached was the kind where sweaty men in darkened rooms shove bills into women's G-strings.

The big reaction to this "act" was that Miley took the talent or art or hard working attempts at entertaining out of the performance and just engaged in what I still believe was an expression of serious, narcissistic panic.

There is a reason "desperation" is the word most often used in accounts of this bit.

And you gotta' know that when scores of fellow performers and stars, most if whom are very liberal, react with disdain, criticism or silence, the attempt to provoke with art just failed.

Miley engendered the disrespect of an entire room full of entertainers with her floor show Sunday night.

'Narcissistic Panic'.
Well put.
You just distilled that entire unseemly spectacle down to two words.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Can someone please tell me where the tags (below) come from? I've never understood how they get there. as mentioned earlier.....they're hysterical lol!

:floorlaugh: