Miss California - Same Sex Marriage-Perez Hilton

[Garland]

Do most Christians really think masturbation is a sin? I'm Christian and was never taught that.

I don't think it is. I've heard about animals masturbating as well.

IMO, she should have never signed up for the pageant & started some drama to begin with. Now everyone is against her. I just think that Carrie needs to just give up; throw in the towel; call it quits; pull the plug; drop (or fall) by the wayside! She's never going to win in anything.

 

[mysterygirl]

Do most Christians really think masturbation is a sin? I'm Christian and was never taught that.

The "fun" of Prejean is that she scrambled up onto a moral pedestal that could not hold the weight of her own human failings. Who doesn't enjoy watching pompous piety trip over its own feet?

It is only "fun" for people who despise Carrie Prejean. Saying you a Christian and trying to adhere to a basic following of Christianity does not mean that you have never sinned.

Her politically incorrect answer of marriage being between a man and a woman does not mean that she proclaimed HERSELF to be Mother Teresa Part Deux.

I don't recall her ever going after the past of those who are against her like they have gone after her. And the super classy tolerance preaching gay pageant directer calling in Carrie and her mother and playing the tape was no doubt a gleeful moment in further humiliation.

What's next ......did she smoke a joint when she was younger, drop the f-bomb, drink milk straight from the carton!

The same crowd eagerly awaits a Sarah Palin divorce.............while saying little about David Letterman getting smacked in the face............

tripping over there own selective moral pedestal........

 

[southcitymom]

It is only "fun" for people who despise Carrie Prejean. Saying you a Christian and trying to adhere to a basic following of Christianity does not mean that you have never sinned.

Her politically incorrect answer of marriage being between a man and a woman does not mean that she proclaimed HERSELF to be Mother Teresa Part Deux.

I don't recall her ever going after the past of those who are against her like they have gone after her. And the super classy tolerance preaching gay pageant directer calling in Carrie and her mother and playing the tape was no doubt a gleeful moment in further humiliation.

What's next ......did she smoke a joint when she was younger, drop the f-bomb, drink milk straight from the carton!

The same crowd eagerly awaits a Sarah Palin divorce.............while saying little about David Letterman getting smacked in the face............

tripping over there own selective moral pedestal........

Now, now - I definitely don't despise Carrie Prejean. I always empathize with anyone who struggles while living in a fishbowl. But I'm not going to pretend I don't get a genuine laugh when someone who publicly cloaks themselves in religious morality gets knocked back into the bucket with the rest of us mere mortals.

I will give this to Ms. Prejean. She is young. I can't tell you how many times I got knocked off my sky high horse when I was young and knew everything. So I surely empathize with her even while I watch life introduce her to her very own feet of clay.

Finally, an implication that discrimination against humans based on who they love is a very basic following of Christianity is the most erroneous opinion I have read all day! But it's early yet!

 

[southcitymom]

I don't think it is. I've heard about animals masturbating as well.

IMO, she should have never signed up for the pageant & started some drama to begin with. Now everyone is against her. I just think that Carrie needs to just give up; throw in the towel; call it quits; pull the plug; drop (or fall) by the wayside! She's never going to win in anything.

She won't do this. She is probably the most well-known former beauty queen our country has ever produced. I think she will use that platform to further her career - and I don't blame her for that!

 

[southcitymom]

My Christian upbring taught that sex is for procreation only. Not that I agree!
Showbiz tonight just said there are many sex tapes!!!

LOL - but you can't procreate with solo sex....that's one of its many happy benefits!



PS - I am just having a little fun, billiejo - I do know that some churches teach that! Where do the Catholics weigh in on masturbation? Maybe we need a masturbation thread!

 

[mysterygirl]

Now, now - I definitely don't despise Carrie Prejean. I always empathize with anyone who struggles while living in a fishbowl. But I'm not going to pretend I don't get a genuine laugh when someone who publicly cloaks themselves in religious morality gets knocked back into the bucket with the rest of us mere mortals.

I will give this to Ms. Prejean. She is young. I can't tell you how many times I got knocked off my sky high horse when I was young and knew everything. So I surely empathize with her even while I watch life introduce her to her very own feet of clay.

Finally, an implication that discrimination against humans based on who they love is a very basic following of Christianity is the most erroneous opinion I have read all day! But it's early yet!

It is erroneous for those who believe in gay marriage.......something slightly different for others. It is all in your interpretation of Christianity. Now now...saying you believe something because of the way you were raised does make you a cloaker of religious morality.....

I wonder if you hold her accusers to the same standards you hold her to.....tolerance in not a one way street, especially when you are on personal opinion lane.

 

[angelmom]

LOL - but you can't procreate with solo sex....that's one of its many happy benefits!



PS - I am just having a little fun, billiejo - I do know that some churches teach that! Where do the Catholics weigh in on masturbation? Maybe we need a masturbation thread!

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church

2352

By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action. "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety, or other psychological or social factors that lessen or even extenuate moral culpability.

BBM...IOW, not okay, but definitely one of the more forgivable and understandable sins. We are striving for perfection but are flawed. :angel:


And ITA with SCM that this wouldn't be any big deal if CP hadn't gotten on her high horse and acted like some moral authority. Even Christ got disgusted with the most public and pompous hypocrits.

 

[mysterygirl]

Catholics believe in many things, some created by the Catholic church.....

 

[southcitymom]

It is erroneous for those who believe in gay marriage.......something slightly different for others. It is all in your interpretation of Christianity. Now now...saying you believe something because of the way you were raised does make you a cloaker of religious morality.....

I wonder if you hold her accusers to the same standards you hold her to.....tolerance in not a one way street, especially when you are on personal opinion lane.

Of course it is all in one's interpretation of Christianity. But your post called it a very basic Christian following/tenet/belief. And it is not. My church has an openly gay bishop. It is a following of some Christians.

I'm uncertain who you think her accusers are. She brought action against the Miss USA dynasty (or whatever the heck it is) by saying they fired her because of her religious beliefs. She sought money as compensation for being fired for her religious beliefs. It is therefore more than fair for "them" to examine how those religious beliefs play out in her life and to bring forth examples of when they did not seem to jibe with her actions.

For what it's worth, I would be appalled if I thought she was fired for her religious beliefs. Additionally, FWIW, I understand her belief in marriage as one man and one women (just like I understand how Christians used to believe in marriage as one man and one woman of the same race). The Bible can be extraordinarily confusing and contradictory, and I believe that every Christian interprets the Bible, just like they interpret all other data, through their individual perspective. I'm not going to throw stones at someone who reads the same thing I read and gleans a different message.

But I will happily throw stones at piousness and hypocrisy (I still don't understand how a person can be okay with surgically altering the body God gave them, but NOT okay with the thought that God created homosexuals and heterosexuals all equal in Her own image....I mean honestly, mysterygirl, it's okay to alter your body by putting plastic bags in your chest but not okay to accept the body God gave you and use it to make love to someone......:waitasec::waitasec.

I agree with you that tolerance is a two-way street!

 

[southcitymom]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church

2352

By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action. "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects' moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety, or other psychological or social factors that lessen or even extenuate moral culpability.

BBM...IOW, not okay, but definitely one of the more forgivable and understandable sins. We are striving for perfection but are flawed. :angel:


And ITA with SCM that this wouldn't be any big deal if CP hadn't gotten on her high horse and acted like some moral authority. Even Christ got disgusted with the most public and pompous hypocrits.

That's so where I am with this, angel! But, as I said before, I'm someone who's been knocked from my high horse more times than I can even remember....and that's a good thing - I needed it - it has taught me so much about love for and tolerance of fellow humans!!

And thanks for the Catholic position. I forget that Catholics have different degrees of sin!

 

[mysterygirl]

Of course it is all in one's interpretation of Christianity. But your post called it a very basic Christian following/tenet/belief. And it is not. My church has an openly gay bishop. It is a following of some Christians.

I'm uncertain who you think her accusers are. She brought action against the Miss USA dynasty (or whatever the heck it is) by saying they fired her because of her religious beliefs. She sought money as compensation for being fired for her religious beliefs. It is therefore more than fair for "them" to examine how those religious beliefs play out in her life and to bring forth examples of when they did not seem to jibe with her actions.

For what it's worth, I would be appalled if I thought she was fired for her religious beliefs. Additionally, FWIW, I understand her belief in marriage as one man and one women (just like I understand how Christians used to believe in marriage as one man and one woman of the same race). The Bible can be extraordinarily confusing and contradictory, and I believe that every Christian interprets the Bible, just like they interpret all other data, through their individual perspective. I'm not going to throw stones at someone who reads the same thing I read and gleans a different message.

But I will happily throw stones at piousness and hypocrisy (I still don't understand how a person can be okay with surgically altering the body God gave them, but NOT okay with the thought that God created homosexuals and heterosexuals all equal in Her own image....I mean honestly, mysterygirl, it's okay to alter your body by putting plastic bags in your chest but not okay to accept the body God gave you and use it to make love to someone......:waitasec::waitasec.

I agree with you that tolerance is a two-way street!

Yes South City, I am aware that some Christians have no problem with gay marriage and some do. She is following HER belief and interpretation. And I'd venture to say that gay bishops are relatively new in this arena.

Her opinion of the marriage issue was based on her religious beliefs. And do we honestly think she would have been fired if her opinion had been different....c'mon. Not following your boob job analogy but OK.

And I disagree that because religion is brought up in her firing that they have an obligation to point out that she has not been sinless. As far as I am aware, she never claimed to be better than anyone else. She did not claim some type of moral one up. She never claimed to recognize that her opinion may be different than others.

I stand by my assertion that Carrie would have never been attacked if her answer had been different.

 

[southcitymom]

Yes South City, I am aware that some Christians have no problem with gay marriage and some do. She is following HER belief and interpretation. And I'd venture to say that gay bishops are relatively new in this arena.

Her opinion of the marriage issue was based on her religious beliefs. And do we honestly think she would have been fired if her opinion had been different....c'mon. Not following your boob job analogy but OK.

And I disagree that because religion is brought up in her firing that they have an obligation to point out that she has not been sinless. As far as I am aware, she never claimed to be better than anyone else. She did not claim some type of moral one up. She never claimed to recognize that her opinion may be different than others.

I stand by my assertion that Carrie would have never been attacked if her answer had been different.

Would she have been fired had her opinion been different? I honestly don't think she would have been had she handled the aftermath of some people's displeasure differently. Was she castigated by some in the media because of her opinion? Yeah, definitely - that's going to happen if you are in a public forum.

I understand that it can be tough for some who don't "believe" in homosexuality or homosexual marriage to feel comfortable voicing their opinions because many on the opposite side of the issue feel like such a belief is bigoted. So instead of feeling respected for what what they perceive as a religious instruction, these people feel attacked as small-minded bigots. No one likes to feel like that way, of course.

I don't worry too much about Miss Prejean. As I said before, her fateful answer has catapulted her into fame, and I don't think that she finds that a bad result.

 

[mysterygirl]

No she probably doesn't.
Sorry SCM, I feel that political correctness can be a bad thing in some cases. I feel that it allowed an extremist to kill 13 of our soldiers.
I may be on a rant because of it.....
(still love you though!)

 

[southcitymom]

Yes South City, I am aware that some Christians have no problem with gay marriage and some do. She is following HER belief and interpretation. And I'd venture to say that gay bishops are relatively new in this arena.

Her opinion of the marriage issue was based on her religious beliefs. And do we honestly think she would have been fired if her opinion had been different....c'mon. Not following your boob job analogy but OK.

And I disagree that because religion is brought up in her firing that they have an obligation to point out that she has not been sinless. As far as I am aware, she never claimed to be better than anyone else. She did not claim some type of moral one up. She never claimed to recognize that her opinion may be different than others.

I stand by my assertion that Carrie would have never been attacked if her answer had been different.

It's true that openly gay bishops are a relatively recent phenomenon. Women priests and pastors are also a relatively recent phenomena. Many Christian Churches continue to grow in their knowledge of God and leave behind the soul-numbing prejudices they once felt comfortable preaching and practicing in the name of the Bible.

Also, thanks for pointing out that her stance on gay marriage in the name of Christianity is simply her perception. I interpreted your initial post to intimate that her beliefs are supported by Christianity.

I am ultra sensitive when people present "homosexuality as sin" as a basic Christian tenet as opposed to a basic tenet of some Christians. For too long, we Christians have failed to welcome all God's children into our fold with love and acceptance. It is the facet of Christian practice that I find most repelling.

 

[southcitymom]

No she probably doesn't.
Sorry SCM, I feel that political correctness can be a bad thing in some cases. I feel that it allowed an extremist to kill 13 of our soldiers.
I may be on a rant because of it.....
(still love you though!)

I hear you. But I don't consider it politically correct to support homosexuals in their fight for what I perceive to be a basic civil right. I just consider that good common sense!

 

[southcitymom]

No she probably doesn't.
Sorry SCM, I feel that political correctness can be a bad thing in some cases. I feel that it allowed an extremist to kill 13 of our soldiers.
I may be on a rant because of it.....
(still love you though!)

PSS - I adore you too, MG. I am NOT one of those who think the those who oppose my personal view on the subject are blind or bigoted. I hope I have made it clear that I respect that this is a complex religious subject for some people. I may not have made that clear because I am an ardent supporter of gay civil rights!

 

[mysterygirl]

I understand scm.....I really do. I stuggle with some of these issues...

 

[southcitymom]

I understand scm.....I really do. I stuggle with some of these issues...

:blowkiss::blowkiss:

 

[LinasK]

Does anyone think maybe she was targeted originally because they knew what a hypocrite she really was? Of course if she hadn't jumped on the publicity bandwagon, gone on all the talk shows and tried to make herself a spokesperson for the conservative voice I think people would have stopped digging and left her alone.

What an embarrassment she is for true conservatives. Why pretend to be something you aren't. That's what I don't understand.

Where the problem lies with me is her being against homosexuality because of her religion when Christianity also views masterbation as a sin.
On the view she said she was young and made a mistake and she trusted her BF.
Isn't premarital sex consider a sin? Maybe her BF was just taping her masterbate but they weren't having sex? Yeh,right!
And she is saying masterbation is not sex?!?
She is a liar and a hypocrite IMO.


Ok she said she sent her BF the tape.I still don't think you do that with someone you aren't sexually active with.

As I said before, I judge pageants. And if a pageant follows its own rules, here is what is important.
1) Many times high and low scores are tossed so one judge can't sway it in either direction. That said, Miss USA is a little less concerned with that than other systems.
2) Judges are instructed to judge based on HOW something is said, not the opinion it is based on. If you can state your opinion clearly and back it up, the opinion is beside the point.
3) Holding a title is a Job. You have an employment contract, bosses, appearances, and expected duties. And, just like in real life, bosses can fire you.

Miss California:
1) Didn't answer the question that was asked.
2) At all levels you are trained to speak on your feet and off the cuff--that's a big part of the job. She could not articulate her answer, nor could she state it tactfully. For or against again does not matter (by the by, Perez Hilton is a lousy judge and was there for publicity for him and Trump).
So, at the national level she missed out on the job. It's as simple as that. She was not denied the crown because of her opinion. She did not earn the crown and the job because she could not do the job.

As for losing her Miss California crown:
1) Again, it's a job. You don't speak disrespectfully to your boss. You can disagree, but you don't mouth off. You don't skip appearances (they are part of your job). You can refuse to do something, but not everything.
2) When you know you are already on bad terms, you don't keep pushing the boundries unless you want to lose your job.
3) You can't work for Company A, and using your job, speak for company B --which is what she did without permission.
4) You don't lie to get a job --which is what she did whe she signed the contract. Put the info out there, be truthful, and it's not a big deal.

Personally, I'm for gay marriage. But as a judge, what I think doesn't matter and shouldn't matter.

Of course it is all in one's interpretation of Christianity. But your post called it a very basic Christian following/tenet/belief. And it is not. My church has an openly gay bishop. It is a following of some Christians.

I'm uncertain who you think her accusers are. She brought action against the Miss USA dynasty (or whatever the heck it is) by saying they fired her because of her religious beliefs. She sought money as compensation for being fired for her religious beliefs. It is therefore more than fair for "them" to examine how those religious beliefs play out in her life and to bring forth examples of when they did not seem to jibe with her actions.

For what it's worth, I would be appalled if I thought she was fired for her religious beliefs. Additionally, FWIW, I understand her belief in marriage as one man and one women (just like I understand how Christians used to believe in marriage as one man and one woman of the same race). The Bible can be extraordinarily confusing and contradictory, and I believe that every Christian interprets the Bible, just like they interpret all other data, through their individual perspective. I'm not going to throw stones at someone who reads the same thing I read and gleans a different message.

But I will happily throw stones at piousness and hypocrisy (I still don't understand how a person can be okay with surgically altering the body God gave them, but NOT okay with the thought that God created homosexuals and heterosexuals all equal in Her own image....I mean honestly, mysterygirl, it's okay to alter your body by putting plastic bags in your chest but not okay to accept the body God gave you and use it to make love to someone......:waitasec::waitasec.

I agree with you that tolerance is a two-way street!

BBM. I agree with all of the above, especially the bolded parts. The woman is a paranoid liar and hypocrit! Perez Hilton did everyone a favor by asking her that question and exposing her prejudices. Why is it that homosexuality is a sin- in her book- NOT mine- and yet she has no problem with making *advertiser censored*, masturbating, and augmenting her body to make it unnatural to win a beauty contest??? I'm not a particularly religious person, but even I know she's no paragon of a church-goer!:doh:

 

[LinasK]

Today 3:28 PM PST by Natalie Finn
Hey, if everyone's seen you naked anyway...
Prominent *advertiser censored* studio Vivid Entertainment has re-extended its $1 million offer to ex-Miss California USA Carrie Prejean to star in an adult film, hopeful that she'd be more receptive to the idea now that they know it's not a matter of her being too shy to strip for the camera.
And timing is everything. more at link: http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b153314_would_you_like_be_porn_star_now_carrie.html