Missouri - The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #15

[the_p0ssum]

Cox didn't do it if you look at the FBI statement in 1992 and Springfield Police Department's media release at the 20-year mark in 2012. They both say the suspect(s) are likely not people with a history of violent crimes. That rules out Cox. Keyword: Violent.

FBI Statement: FBI expert discusses abductions
SPD 2012 Statement: https://www.springfieldmo.gov/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/2003

That rules out all serial killers types too.

The 20th anniversary release notes "and he may not have a history of committing crimes of violence." I'm not sure that "may not" equates to "likely not." But I find it interesting that some of Cox's own family thinks he was involved. Are there any references to this in published media?

 

[cherrymeg]

Cox didn't do it if you look at the FBI statement in 1992 and Springfield Police Department's media release at the 20-year mark in 2012. They both say the suspect(s) are likely not people with a history of violent crimes. That rules out Cox. Keyword: Violent.

FBI Statement: FBI expert discusses abductions
SPD 2012 Statement: https://www.springfieldmo.gov/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/2003

That rules out all serial killers types too.

That was the profile from the FBI based on the information they had. They could be totally right about the suspect, they could also be wrong. Profiling isn't an exact science. There aren't bodies or signs of violence at the house so even the best profile might not be complete. MOO

 

[Nixaeagle]

The 20th anniversary release notes "and he may not have a history of committing crimes of violence." I'm not sure that "may not" equates to "likely not." But I find it interesting that some of Cox's own family thinks he was involved. Are there any references to this in published media?

Exactly , he also may have . It’s just speculation . Like the aforementioned trusted person . That’s based on no forced entry . There are a 1/2 dozen other ways they were abducted without needing forced entry or a trusted person .
Personal interviews and research into public statements that family members have made.

 

[Nixaeagle]

That was the profile from the FBI based on the information they had. They could be totally right about the suspect, they could also be wrong. Profiling isn't an exact science. There aren't bodies or signs of violence at the house so even the best profile might not be complete. MOO

Same is true with “ may not believe he is capable of committing this type of crime “
Sounds like Lionel Dahmer home movies . Grandma asked “you’re looking good and trim , have you been working out ? . Jeff : “I’ve been surviving on McDonald’s food “ when he’s literally been eating humans .

 

[cherrymeg]

Same is true with “ may not believe he is capable of committing this type of crime “
Sounds like Lionel Dahmer home movies . Grandma asked “you’re looking good and trim , have you been working out ? . Jeff : “I’ve been surviving on McDonald’s food “ when he’s literally been eating humans .

Ew - sometimes it's better to live in blissful ignorance as long as you don't eat the "McDonalds Food". No eating the suspicious unpackaged meat is when you have to lie to yourself lol. That isn't something you suspect from most people. Most people don't think their loved ones are cannibals or murderers. No history of violence can mean hasn't been caught yet. The man in Cleveland had three women locked in his house and he brought the daughter around his family. No one had a clue.

 

[KickapooGrad04]

If you want to be pedantic about two sources closest to the case than any of us, and play outliers, that’s your prerogative, but I tend to play the odds. If they had anything that linked Cox, they wouldn’t have wasted time on Garrison and people linked to the women via grave robbers. Just like with the staged kidnappings in Detroit and smaller towns near me like Lansing/Flint, this case sounds just like them. They knew about Cox for years and still went after the Hood property in 2002/2003–why do that then?

This case doesn’t scan like most serial killer cases. I would like a source on the Riedel being in town thing. @Missouri Mule can you let me know?

 

[Jdgreene]

Some random thoughts…My opinion only…

Single Perp: If this was a single perp, I don’t see there being any remote possibility of this being the only crime committed by them. For example, if this was sexual in nature, they would desire to feed this and continue down this path. I believe we would see a similar crime committed after this was transpired if they thought it was the “perfect” crime…a way not to get caught. I don’t see guilt being a factor causing a single perp to commit suicide, as their conscious has already been seared to get to the point of committing this crime. Essentially, I believe this person would be caught. And, in my opinion, would brag about this crime being unsolvable.

LEO: I have a difficult time with this angle due to the thought that over the past 25+ years there have probably been multiple law enforcement personnel who have looked into this case. At some point, if evidence was destroyed, I believe one would possibly have had an “aha” moment of the gap / lack of evidence. I know it is not always the case, but it seems that time is usually the enemy of “dirty cops”.

Multiple Perps: The difficulty in accepting this theory is coming to grips with believing that multiple people have been able to essentially “keep their mouths closed”. Which, if we were dealing with petty criminals, would most definitely go against this. Petty criminals would let something slip, and this would get them caught. So, we can and should eliminate petty criminals. Which only leaves us hardened criminals. Ones that this wouldn’t wreck their conscious. And, ones that also would be able put fear into someone if they did accidentally say something / let something slip. With all that is happening in the world today with the pandemic, we can see how fear is a great controller and manipulator. Now, this could and probably would create a huge web of people who may know something, but fear keeps them from releasing the information.

I’ve read bout the GJ3. I do not know who these were.

It’s obvious if motive was known, then this case would be fast-tracked to solving. However, motive is not known and will not be / may never be known unless justice takes place on perp(s). I think it would be foolish to dismiss the “crazy” theory / ies on this case.

 

[KickapooGrad04]

Some random thoughts…My opinion only…

Single Perp: If this was a single perp, I don’t see there being any remote possibility of this being the only crime committed by them. For example, if this was sexual in nature, they would desire to feed this and continue down this path. I believe we would see a similar crime committed after this was transpired if they thought it was the “perfect” crime…a way not to get caught. I don’t see guilt being a factor causing a single perp to commit suicide, as their conscious has already been seared to get to the point of committing this crime. Essentially, I believe this person would be caught. And, in my opinion, would brag about this crime being unsolvable.

LEO: I have a difficult time with this angle due to the thought that over the past 25+ years there have probably been multiple law enforcement personnel who have looked into this case. At some point, if evidence was destroyed, I believe one would possibly have had an “aha” moment of the gap / lack of evidence. I know it is not always the case, but it seems that time is usually the enemy of “dirty cops”.

Multiple Perps: The difficulty in accepting this theory is coming to grips with believing that multiple people have been able to essentially “keep their mouths closed”. Which, if we were dealing with petty criminals, would most definitely go against this. Petty criminals would let something slip, and this would get them caught. So, we can and should eliminate petty criminals. Which only leaves us hardened criminals. Ones that this wouldn’t wreck their conscious. And, ones that also would be able put fear into someone if they did accidentally say something / let something slip. With all that is happening in the world today with the pandemic, we can see how fear is a great controller and manipulator. Now, this could and probably would create a huge web of people who may know something, but fear keeps them from releasing the information.

I’ve read bout the GJ3. I do not know who these were.

It’s obvious if motive was known, then this case would be fast-tracked to solving. However, motive is not known and will not be / may never be known unless justice takes place on perp(s). I think it would be foolish to dismiss the “crazy” theory / ies on this case.

One of the GJ was involved in carjacking someone via gun point using a ruse of his car breaking down. One is Garrison’s buddy who now goes by a new name entirely. Make of that what you will...
Even after hearing Cox leads and many other leads, the cops decided to go through with getting an actual warrant and subpoena to dig on the land of John Hood in Cassville. Hood is notoriously linked to a drug trade. Direct link to these people via Dustin Recla dating Suzie and her testifying in court. I don’t believe in coincidences.

 

[Missouri Mule]

If you want to be pedantic about two sources closest to the case than any of us, and play outliers, that’s your prerogative, but I tend to play the odds. If they had anything that linked Cox, they wouldn’t have wasted time on Garrison and people linked to the women via grave robbers. Just like with the staged kidnappings in Detroit and smaller towns near me like Lansing/Flint, this case sounds just like them. They knew about Cox for years and still went after the Hood property in 2002/2003–why do that then?

This case doesn’t scan like most serial killer cases. I would like a source on the Riedel being in town thing. @Missouri Mule can you let me know?

As I checked further the source that he was in town came from the Newspaper’s belief only. Mr. Clay has long maintained Riedel had left for Illinois sometime in February per my recollection.

I dug deep into this and there was nothing established of an evidentiary nature that the police had documented. Unfortunately, this has been a recurring problem since the crime had happened. If the police have ever said in any report he was in town I have not seen it.

Cox is still a viable suspect but he runs counter to the description that the police provided in 2012. He obviously had a very serious criminal history, including Garrison and Carnahan.

What is needed is the identity of some male nearby who had no prior history and whose whereabouts were unknown to any family members between the hours of 9PM until 6 AM the next morning. That would rule out all of the other individuals including Riedel who have been in the news since the case began. Most had extensive criminal histories.

This is my opinion only. I have three specific individuals who would meet the 2012 description. None have criminal histories. Their names have or will be provided to the SPD.

If none of these possibles pan out one must necessarily consider an unknown serial killer. Why he would have selected that home might be based on his surveilling the home. There a police report that specifically suggests that possibility.

 

[KickapooGrad04]

As I checked further the source that he was in town came from the Newspaper’s belief only. Mr. Clay has long maintained Riedel had left for Illinois sometime in February per my recollection.

I dug deep into this and there was nothing established of an evidentiary nature that the police had documented. Unfortunately, this has been a recurring problem since the crime had happened. If the police have ever said in any report he was in town I have not seen it.

Cox is still a viable suspect but he runs counter to the description that the police provided in 2012. He obviously had a very serious criminal history, including Garrison and Carnahan.

What is needed is the identity of some male nearby who had no prior history and whose whereabouts were unknown to any family members between the hours of 9PM until 6 AM the next morning. That would rule out all of the other individuals including Riedel who have been in the news since the case began. Most had extensive criminal histories.

This is my opinion only. I have three specific individuals who would meet the 2012 description. None have criminal histories. Their names have or will be provided to the SPD.

If none of these possibles pan out one must necessarily consider an unknown serial killer. Why he would have selected that home might be based on his surveilling the home. There a police report that specifically suggests that possibility.

Sorry I don’t believe this.

Don’t you think the cops cross referenced Mike Clay’s version of the story with Joe himself or others around Joe in IL?

 

[Nixaeagle]

As I checked further the source that he was in town came from the Newspaper’s belief only. Mr. Clay has long maintained Riedel had left for Illinois sometime in February per my recollection.

I dug deep into this and there was nothing established of an evidentiary nature that the police had documented. Unfortunately, this has been a recurring problem since the crime had happened. If the police have ever said in any report he was in town I have not seen it.

Cox is still a viable suspect but he runs counter to the description that the police provided in 2012. He obviously had a very serious criminal history, including Garrison and Carnahan.

What is needed is the identity of some male nearby who had no prior history and whose whereabouts were unknown to any family members between the hours of 9PM until 6 AM the next morning. That would rule out all of the other individuals including Riedel who have been in the news since the case began. Most had extensive criminal histories.

This is my opinion only. I have three specific individuals who would meet the 2012 description. None have criminal histories. Their names have or will be provided to the SPD.

If none of these possibles pan out one must necessarily consider an unknown serial killer. Why he would have selected that home might be based on his surveilling the home. There a police report that specifically suggests that possibility.

JR went to Chicago in March ‘92 to his mothers . He worked a plea deal for testifying against the other two . Suzie testimony was irrelevant and big IF she testified it would be VERY limited scope . If anyone should have disappeared it would have been JR , not Suzie .

Why select Delmar ? opportunity . You have Mr. Hurricane who did extensive research into this case ( as you know ) you have a retired LE with almost 40 years experience with basically the same conclusions . You have the task force that reviewed the case files and same conclusions .




Hurricane July 9, 2015 Websleuths “
I’ve never seen any evidence of an organized crime angle , Professional hitman or professional cleaners , And therefore have no interest in it”

 

[Missouri Mule]

Sorry I don’t believe this.

Don’t you think the cops cross referenced Mike Clay’s version of the story with Joe himself or others around Joe in IL?

I’m not exactly following you. So far as I can tell, Riedel was not in town the night the women went missing. According to a investigator to this case he saw the actual police report and Riedel was not in town. I’ve not personally seen it, however. The newspaper was therefore wrong. Was it even relevant?

I do not believe any of the crypt vandals were involved.

Now as to the number of perpetrators are involved, I could only speculate that one of the perpetrators would have rolled on the others if multiple perps were involved.

I believe in the absence of evidence that multiple players were not involved.

It is disturbing that the first responders behaved what most of us would regard as irrational. But that does not prove guilt or even a suspicion of guilt.

Conclusion: One perp. Sexual assault.

 

[KickapooGrad04]

Hurricane has never proven right or wrong. He went to the cops with info. Case still unsolved, correct?

Glad you brought Hurricane up. He leans towards the GJ3 direction for this crime too.Sexual assault motive was never officially declared and a lot learned since 1995. There’s no reason MOCIC and RISS would have been brought up to speed on this case AFTER that date if organized crime wasn’t suspected.

Plus why was Hoods’ searched if the angle was a dead end?

By the way there’s no proof from anything available publicly that “JR went to Chicago” besides Mike’s word. And Mike didn’t have eyes on him all the time (proof of that in Mike’s own words).

 

[KickapooGrad04]

I’m not exactly following you. So far as I can tell, Riedel was not in town the night the women went missing. According to a investigator to this case he saw the actual police report and Riedel was not in town. I’ve not personally seen it, however. The newspaper was therefore wrong. Was it even relevant?

I do not believe any of the crypt vandals were involved.

Now as to the number of perpetrators are involved, I could only speculate that one of the perpetrators would have rolled on the others if multiple perps were involved.

I believe in the absence of evidence that multiple players were not involved.

It is disturbing that the first responders behaved what most of us would regard as irrational. But that does not prove guilt or even a suspicion of guilt.

Conclusion: One perp. Sexual assault.

You have no conclusion if you investigation starts and ends leaning on the word of a suspect who hated the women. Have you seen the documents of his arrest in IL in mid July 1992? These are unrelated to MO.

Also, why was Hood property searched if Cox, etc. were promising leads? Not only searched, but gag ordered?

Why did RS’s public statement about getting a knock on his door by detectives Doug Thomas and Randy McDowell saying Garrison and Robb were suspects in the case and told him to keep quiet about them being outside the apartment?

You guy bring up a 1995 document referencing sex assault but you have assistant attorney general in 2017 saying “grave robbers aren’t cleared” so...what gives? Moore says this and never spoke strongly about any other suspect pool. Polygraph results are immediately thrown out the window when Allen Neal says grave robbers’ alibi could not be confirmed or denied. Allen Neal was Bartt’s favorite detective and winner of many awards, remember? Asher said similar in 2019 production.

I take Allen Neal, Doug Thomas, Moore’s word over Mike Clay.

 

[Missouri Mule]

You have no conclusion if you investigation starts and ends leaning on the word of a suspect who hated the women. Have you seen the documents of his arrest in IL in mid July 1992? These are unrelated to MO.

Also, why was Hood property searched if Cox, etc. were promising leads? Not only searched, but gag ordered?

Why did RS’s public statement about getting a knock on his door by detectives Doug Thomas and Randy McDowell saying Garrison and Robb were suspects in the case and told him to keep quiet about them being outside the apartment?

You guy bring up a 1995 document referencing sex assault but you have assistant attorney general in 2017 saying “grave robbers aren’t cleared” so...what gives? Moore says this and never spoke strongly about any other suspect pool. Polygraph results are immediately thrown out the window when Allen Neal says grave robbers’ alibi could not be confirmed or denied. Allen Neal was Bartt’s favorite detective and winner of many awards, remember? Asher said similar in 2019 production.

I take Allen Neal, Doug Thomas, Moore’s word over Mike Clay.

In no way am I relying on what Mr. Clay has said.

 

[KickapooGrad04]

In no way am I relying on what Mr. Clay has said.

Thanks. Per Websleuths rules, you need to provide a relevant link. Secretive sources that cannot be fact checked are not allowed as you know, do you mind providing the source verifying where Riedel was on 6/7/92? Just because he left with Clay does not mean he couldn’t come back the same way Clay did. All info online points to him being in town.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Thanks. Per Websleuths rules, you need to provide a relevant link. Secretive sources that cannot be fact checked are not allowed as you know, do you mind providing the source verifying where Riedel was on 6/7/92? Just because he left with Clay does not mean he couldn’t come back the same way Clay did. All info online points to him being in town.

I’d be happy to do that if I had access to the police files.

Neither do I have access to any source that can definitively prove he was in town.

I don’t believe it is particularly important either way.

However we do have the last official police statement about the perp. Clearly that implies that none of the “usual suspects” could have done it as they all had well documented rap sheets.

https://www.springfieldmo.gov/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/2003

That is who we need to be trying to ferret out of this morass of conflicting opinions. That is to say Riedel could not have done this because of his documented history. That can be found on Missouri Case Net.

 

[KickapooGrad04]

I’d be happy to do that if I had access to the police files.

Neither do I have access to any source that can definitively prove he was in town.

I don’t believe it is particularly important either way.

However we do have the last official police statement about the perp. Clearly that implies that none of the “usual suspects” could have done it as they all had well documented rap sheets.

https://www.springfieldmo.gov/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/2003

That is who we need to be trying to ferret out of this morass of conflicting opinions. That is to say Riedel could not have done this because of his documented history. That can be found on Missouri Case Net.

So you don’t have proof of him being in town. You should edit your post saying he wasn’t. Since you can’t know for sure.

Riedel perfectly describes who they are talking about. He has no prior history of violent crimes and nothing since. People wouldn’t suspect a family man with a chimney company. Though the description is vague and describes many close to the women. It could describe Clay, and others, even Mike Henson could be forced to fit that. If he doesn’t have a DV charge.

Wright believes this person hides in plain sight. That they seem ordinary to most but they may have a changed major behavior to mask the guilt.

2017, Darrell Moore: some of us feel the graverobbers should not have been cleared. That’s 2017. Not 1995 like the article mentioning sex assault motive. This was a revenge crime in my opinion.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Thanks. Per Websleuths rules, you need to provide a relevant link. Secretive sources that cannot be fact checked are not allowed as you know, do you mind providing the source verifying where Riedel was on 6/7/92? Just because he left with Clay does not mean he couldn’t come back the same way Clay did. All info online points to him being in town.

I’d be happy to do that if I had access to the police files.

So you don’t have proof of him being in town. You should edit your post saying he wasn’t. Since you can’t know for sure.

Riedel perfectly describes who they are talking about. He has no prior history of violent crimes and nothing since. People wouldn’t suspect a family man with a chimney company. Though the description is vague and describes many close to the women. It could describe Clay, and others, even Mike Henson could be forced to fit that. If he doesn’t have a DV charge.

Wright believes this person hides in plain sight. That they seem ordinary to most but they may have a changed major behavior to mask the guilt.

2017, Darrell Moore: some of us feel the graverobbers should not have been cleared. That’s 2017. Not 1995 like the article mentioning sex assault motive. This was a revenge crime in my opinion.

 

[Missouri Mule]

You are entitled to your opinion. I am satisfied he was not in Springfield that night.

It is irrelevant either way.

So far as I am concerned the subject is closed.