Missouri - The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #9

[Whiskers16]

Hi all,
The bickering and discussion of "inside information" needs to stop. If a user wants to present information without links to substantiate, please initiate the process to become a Verified Insider.
Thanks,
Whiskers

 

[Valiant]

If there was credible evidence to point to a suspect who had no DNA on file, a law enforcement organization would obtain DNA from that person from a discarded object. If that happened to match, then a more formal procedure can be used DNA evidence for trial evidence.

 

[Missouri Mule]

There was two phone calls that night and the second phone call the police have never said who Sherill was speaking to.

I believe you are correct but could you cite where that was published? I know the name of the first caller as that was published, I believe, but the second caller has not been to my knowledge ever identified or confirmed. I would just, if possible, wish to know who that was. It should, I think,
be highly relevant to this case.

 

[Missouri Mule]

If there was credible evidence to point to a suspect who had no DNA on file, a law enforcement organization would obtain DNA from that person from a discarded object. If that happened to match, then a more formal procedure can be used DNA evidence for trial evidence.

That would be reasonable if the police knew who they were looking at. To my knowledge, they don’t have a solid suspect.

If they have unidentified DNA, it must belong to someone.

That suggests they don’t yet have a suspect. Am I incorrect in making this conclusion?

 

[Tip and Mitten]

This case has spanned my entire existence! It really needs solving, no two ways about it. In reading this thread (and still with many past ones to go) I get the feeling one of you could name the killer and be spot on, and I also get at times a whiff of sulfur, as if the perp were posting here, too. October shivers, truly! Tell me more! Sleuth on.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I pray I am not breaking any rules but there was an incident about 10 years ago where I called the Springfield New-Leader and asked to speak to the reporter currently handling and writing about the case.

I was put through to the reporter and although it was a brief conversation he told me explicitly that the Springfield Police Department would willingly talk about any other case but that this one refused to talk about. He never said they didn’t wamt to talk about it but that they “refused”to discuss the case. I thanked him and as I said it was a brief call.

It was later on that night, almost two o’clock in the morning and I frequently visited the only internet site that did discuss this case at that time to any extent. I had the not so bright idea that others might be interested in knowing the police department’s policy regarding this one case. I did give his name.

So I mentioned it on that website and others read what I wrote and contacted the reporter. He contacted me the next day and said our conversation was confidential and chewed me out royally. I responded that I didn’t take our conversation as confidential but he would have none of it. I don’t recall his name and wouldn’t put it here if I did. But that is a true story. I would recall the name if I researched their archives.

I have also talked to three other reporters handing this case who were employed by the newspaper. I do know their names. One called me at home and we discussed the case, Carnahan in particular, for about 1/2 an hour. I’ve had no further discussions with any News-Leader staff.

Make of it what you will.

If this is against the terms of service I apologize in advance.

 

[Scooby Doo 4U]

Here's a link to an interesting story regarding the use of modern Ground Penetrating Radar that was used to discover a Viking Long Ship in Norway recently.
Viking ship found buried in Norway - CNN Video
The point of this post is, I wish police would re-explore the properties they searched years ago, with modern broader covering, better enhanced GPR like they used in this video. I sincerely think that it would allow police to either rule out the areas they searched before, or discover things that they may have missed. I don't recall that they used GPR when they searched the properties back then. I know they used Dogs, and the tip's they had, but who knows how much better they could search those properties today with this much more modern and technologically advanced GPR equipment.
I just wanted to share this. Something I wish police would consider at some point.

 

[Scooby Doo 4U]

I pray I am not breaking any rules but there was an incident about 10 years ago where I called the Springfield New-Leader and asked to speak to the reporter currently handling and writing about the case.

I was put through to the reporter and although it was a brief conversation he told me explicitly that the Springfield Police Department would willingly talk about any other case but that this one refused to talk about. He never said they didn’t wamt to talk about it but that they “refused”to discuss the case. I thanked him and as I said it was a brief call.

It was later on that night, almost two o’clock in the morning and I frequently visited the only internet site that did discuss this case at that time to any extent. I had the not so bright idea that others might be interested in knowing the police department’s policy regarding this one case. I did give his name.

So I mentioned it on that website and others read what I wrote and contacted the reporter. He contacted me the next day and said our conversation was confidential and chewed me out royally. I responded that I didn’t take our conversation as confidential but he would have none of it. I don’t recall his name and wouldn’t put it here if I did. But that is a true story. I would recall the name if I researched their archives.

I have also talked to three other reporters handing this case who were employed by the newspaper. I do know their names. One called me at home and we discussed the case, Carnahan in particular, for about 1/2 an hour. I’ve had no further discussiattions with any News-Leader staff.

Make of it what you will.

If this is against the terms of service I apologize in advance.

Interesting post for sure. It makes you wonder why police have been so adamant in not discussing the case with people over the years. Many people have also pointed this issue out over the years.
At the very least you'd think that they would want to dispel all of the mis and disinformation. As well as try harder to keep the case alive in the eyes of the public.
It makes you wonder if they have solved the case, but just can't prove it to the point of filing charges, and don't want to ruin the integrity of their case by speaking publicly about it.
I've often wondered if that's why the McCall family named the website they helped establish, "One Missing Link". Could that be referring to police knowing what happened, but missing that one link that would provide for the filing of formal charges. Certainly something to think about. JMO.
Makes you wonder???

 

[Scooby Doo 4U]

<modsnip - quoted post has been removed>
Is there anyway you could provide a source for police saying they had "Unidentified DNA". Reason I ask is, I've read everything I could find about this case over the years, and unless I've misread something at some point, I've never seen police state that they found any DNA evidence. Not to mention DNA evidence that was unidentifiable. I would love to read that article if I've missed it somehow over the years. TIA

 

[Brubeck]

This rejuvenated thread continues to be great, even with the grumbles and TOS edginess! And this case will get solved someday. Great reading till then. Thanks, all.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I have a subscription to the archives of newspapers across the United States dating back to the 1800’s. Most if not all of the articles are to be found on this website.

The June 12th issue had some interesting information.

Much of the information is already well known and discussed. I did, however, find something that piqued my interest. As many know, the house sits back a considerable distance from Delmar and next to a small business per my recollection. However there is a driveway between that business and the house that is at a higher level than the home. Surrounding that house is a substantial amount of parking is available.

Prior to purchasing that home the home was occupied by the mother of the owner who lived there for five years. At the time she lived there, there were several instances of sightings of transients and “street people.” Also seen were suspected cases of what appeared to be drug transfers between cars etc. There was one instance of a transient type individual who was said to have come into the house wanting to find work cutting grass. At that time, the lady’s sister was visiting and very alarmed as he opened the screen door on the carport and let himself into the house. He was asked to leave.

Kurt Naegler, a former police officer, and then affiliated with MOCIC an associated agency also echoed the increasing transient population behind their houses. He had sold the house a year prior to the abductions.

It appears from reading the article that the house was poorly located and the property to the east attracted somewhat undesirable individuals.

I am up through June 12, 1992 and can access most newspapers to the current time. I have this available as I am also involved in doing geneological work on my family tree.

 

[MooseMeMuch]

IMO we cannot 'assume' 18 people offered up their DNA....I wouldn't. Fingerprint? Sure.

DNA testing...was still in it's infancy in '92...it was first used in court in the U.S. in '87. IMO we cannot 'assume' all 18 people volunteered to give a DNA sample. Heck, I wouldn't. Never have and no plans to. Fingerprint? Sure.

"In the 1980s, in order to perform DNA analysis on a crime scene or a victim, forensic investigators needed a blood sample or semen stain of about the size of a quarter."

I was hoping 'touch DNA' might help bring closure to this case but so far nope! If it's a matter of funding...all the more reason to get the "Cold Justice" team involved.

Touch DNA

 

[Scooby Doo 4U]

IMO we cannot 'assume' 18 people offered up their DNA....I wouldn't. Fingerprint? Sure.

DNA testing...was still in it's infancy in '92...it was first used in court in the U.S. in '87. IMO we cannot 'assume' all 18 people volunteered to give a DNA sample. Heck, I wouldn't. Never have and no plans to. Fingerprint? Sure.

"In the 1980s, in order to perform DNA analysis on a crime scene or a victim, forensic investigators needed a blood sample or semen stain of about the size of a quarter."

I was hoping 'touch DNA' might help bring closure to this case but so far nope! If it's a matter of funding...all the more reason to get the "Cold Justice" team involved.

Touch DNA

Touch DNA is the DNA break through of modern times. Amazing that one touch, is all it takes to collect enough of a DNA sample to run its DNA sequence. It soo bad that they didn't have this technology back when the crime was committed. It's also sad that they didn't keep all of the cars from so long ago, to retest them. However, I wonder if Ms. McCall or Suzie's brother or Bartt's Aunt kept their purses. I would wager that based on what everyone has said over the years, that the bags were probably not placed their by the women, based on how and were they were found, that this may be a viable option for retesting, if they still exist. As well as other personal affects or house hold affects that may have been touched by the perp(s). I wonder if police have considered this angle at all? Even the broken shards of the porch globe could potentially be tested, and if I recall correctly, even though they were initially discarded by MH, and JK, they were, for the most part, recovered by police back then. Interesting angle MMM!!!

 

[MooseMeMuch]

Here's a link to an interesting story regarding the use of modern Ground Penetrating Radar that was used to discover a Viking Long Ship in Norway recently.
Viking ship found buried in Norway - CNN Video
The point of this post is, I wish police would re-explore the properties they searched years ago, with modern broader covering, better enhanced GPR like they used in this video. I sincerely think that it would allow police to either rule out the areas they searched before, or discover things that they may have missed. I don't recall that they used GPR when they searched the properties back then. I know they used Dogs, and the tip's they had, but who knows how much better they could search those properties today with this much more modern and technologically advanced GPR equipment.
I just wanted to share this. Something I wish police would consider at some point.

Excellent info and idea. Now to light a fire underneath SPD....

 

[MooseMeMuch]

How we would’ve handled the situation may not matter but people are unpredictable. One person would had to have planned and watched to pull this off without leaving a shred of evidence-but it wasn’t a normal night. I’ve been in life threatening situations and made excuses for what was happening rather than what I thought I would-and what people I told said they would’ve done-because I didn’t want to believe it.

Whoa, good point concerning 'denial'. I'm sorry you had to go through the situations and glad you survived them. wow Thank you for bringing reality into this equation.
IMO, denial played a huge role in this case.
Not only denial as to what was happening but who was doing the harm....a powerful combo that would be overwhelming to anyone. By the time the victim made sense of the whole event, it would be too late. IMO...very well could have happened with this case

 

[Ozoner]

The June 12th issue had some interesting information.

Much of the information is already well known and discussed. I did, however, find something that piqued my interest. As many know, the house sits back a considerable distance from Delmar and next to a small business per my recollection. However there is a driveway between that business and the house that is at a higher level than the home. Surrounding that house is a substantial amount of parking is available.

Prior to purchasing that home the home was occupied by the mother of the owner who lived there for five years. At the time she lived there, there were several instances of sightings of transients and “street people.” Also seen were suspected cases of what appeared to be drug transfers between cars etc. There was one instance of a transient type individual who was said to have come into the house wanting to find work cutting grass. At that time, the lady’s sister was visiting and very alarmed as he opened the screen door on the carport and let himself into the house. He was asked to leave.

Kurt Naegler, a former police officer, and then affiliated with MOCIC an associated agency also echoed the increasing transient population behind their houses. He had sold the house a year prior to the abductions.

It appears from reading the article that the house was poorly located and the property to the east attracted somewhat undesirable individuals.

Snipped

A transient person wouldn't have had a vehicle unless he stole one. There was talk of a van being boosted that night, but I still doubt that a transient did this.

 

[Valiant]

Snipped

A transient person wouldn't have had a vehicle unless he stole one. There was talk of a van being boosted that night, but I still doubt that a transient did this.

The van that was supposedly stolen right around that time and later recovered at a campground, much like the house the women disappeared from, had no real evidence that a crime like this one had been committed using it.

 

[Scooby Doo 4U]

The van that was supposedly stolen right around that time and later recovered at a campground, much like the house the women disappeared from, had no real evidence that a crime like this one had been committed using it.

Didn't they find the van that was stolen, in a camp ground, like you mention, located in Indiana, but were never able to tie anyone to it or who had driven it there? Which is too bad, because that is a very strange coincidence of the van being stolen the same weekend the women disappeared, and the sightings of the van by the paper delivery person. I still don't think IMO that the van seen by the paper delivery person, was the same van seen by the porch lady. They didn't sound like they were the same model or color.

 

[Ozoner]

Didn't they find the van that was stolen, in a camp ground, like you mention, located in Indiana, but were never able to tie anyone to it or who had driven it there? Which is too bad, because that is a very strange coincidence of the van being stolen the same weekend the women disappeared, and the sightings of the van by the paper delivery person. I still don't think IMO that the van seen by the paper delivery person, was the same van seen by the porch lady. They didn't sound like they were the same model or color.

Did either the porch lady's description or the paper boy's description match the stolen van even vaguely? (Granted, people's memories of details like make and color can be way off, and a vehicle can appear to be one color under certain lighting conditions and a different color under different lighting conditions.)

 

[Valiant]

While both the stolen van and the other “sightings” of the van were both Dodge vans, they were very different in appearance. Google “Dodge A108” (porch lady van) and “1979 Dodge van” (stolen van) images and see how different they look.

Actually the second stolen van might have been newer than 1979, but still very different than the A108 van.