Mitigating Factor: Casey's Parents

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
This is also interesting because it is our blow by blow of the penalty phase for Peterson.
he also still maintains his innocence of killing his wife and unborn son.
I forgot that that some actually challenged the verdict and I am sure the jury did not like that.
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17112&page=2

starts a round post 28
 
If I were the Social Worker, Jeanene, I would be looking for patterns of behavior in KC's background that might indicate undiagnosed bipolar disorder. One way to argue a mitigating factor would be to show where KC was in a manic phase (which might be well supported by her constant texting at all hours). Her patterns established so far is to deny, deny, deny until the very last second that she is confronted and then admit and expect all will be forgotten and everyone should move on from here. (ie: the pregnancy, highschool graduation, employment, Caylee is missing). I would be looking at times in her school history where there might have been identified problems and GA & CA swept it under the rug. I would want to know if there are cyclical patterns of manic phases in her behaviors previously. I would be looking for learning disabilities, interaction with peers, what happened when she did get in trouble (ie: school or neighbors) in the past, any consequences for negative behaviors? Medical records, a history of head or brain trauma, domestic violence, issues of child abuse and/or neglect in KC'S childhood, etc.


Interesting that you see bipolar, could be but I see more of an anti-social disorder because of her thought process which IMO seems to center around a very narcisstic profile. She doesn't recognize the difference b/w good consequences vs. bad consequences. She lacks the ability to grasp how her behavior affects others. And as far as the "mom" act she portrays it seems just that an act b/c she is unable to experience real genuine emotions.

Think of recognized serial killers such as Ted Bundy and Jefferey D. We can't imagine how someone could take the life of another for no other reason than "just because". They were able to commit those horrendous crimes b/c they lack the ability to feel those emotions.

Does my comment even make sense??

Novice Seeker
 
From the little understanding of the law if all relevant mitigating factors are not considered in a death penalty case, the punishment can be consider "cruel and unusual", as the Supreme Court ruled in Tennard v. Dretke. It is also my understanding that KC's attorney does not have to admit her guilt in order to bring up the fact that her parents mistreatment and failure to give her proper moral guidance made her less able appreciate the criminal aspect of the offense and that because of this her ability to control her behavior to was impaired.

Thus I believe that her parents conduct will argued in the sentencing phase and if it is not it would make the sentencing subject to appeal

You bring up a very good point here. Whether it is a "mitigating factor" it certainly is an ongoing issue for KC that played a big role (in my opinion) in why she responded the way she did. Since there were never any consequences for her negative behaviors and I sincerely doubt she ever faced a "come to Jesus meeting" with anyone of authority previously. KC has never had a "concept" of accepting responsiblity for her actions and working towards not letting that happen again. Lying is a coping skill in this home, whether it is GA lying about how he lost all that money on the internet, to CA lying about pizza/stolen cars/$, or KC lying about ZFG. These patterns of behavior are pervasive in this family.
 
More penalty phase info:
[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=457574&postcount=228"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=459233&postcount=242"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

also be careful about crossing over into a psych profile discussion. we have a 9 part thread on that specific topic.
 
Interesting that you see bipolar, could be but I see more of an anti-social disorder because of her thought process which IMO seems to center around a very narcisstic profile. She doesn't recognize the difference b/w good consequences vs. bad consequences. She lacks the ability to grasp how her behavior affects others. And as far as the "mom" act she portrays it seems just that an act b/c she is unable to experience real genuine emotions.

Think of recognized serial killers such as Ted Bundy and Jefferey D. We can't imagine how someone could take the life of another for no other reason than "just because". They were able to commit those horrendous crimes b/c they lack the ability to feel those emotions.

Does my comment even make sense??

Novice Seeker

Yes, your comments make more sense than mine (ha). I was just throwing ideas out that might be general mitigating factors that a defense team might want to explore. I agree with you. What is heart breaking is this is the very personality who was in charge of meeting Caylee's needs. It must have been a pretty scary place for a little girl dependant upon the very person who cannot feel their child's pain.
 
So are you saying that since GA and CA eat crab puffs KC's life should be spared?


Oh he** no. KC deserves whatever punishment the jury determines. Death would be preferable.(sic)

I brought up the Ritz incident as a point that Lyon could use for the mitigating circumstances that could have contributed to KC's ability to murder her own child without any remorse. KWIM???

Novice Seeker
 
I think that the defense is going to have to walk a very fine line with trying to blame any of this on Casey's upbringing. There are many, many people who had the same type of family life that Casey had that have gone on to live normal lives without committing acts of violence towards anyone. All it would take is for one juror to have a similar background (upbringing) as Casey for the rest of the jury to realize what a lame excuse this is. It does not matter if you were loved as a child or not, had a strict upbringing or lax one, had parents that covered for you or made you own up to your mistakes......none of that makes it acceptable to do the things that Casey has done. Casey knows right from wrong, Casey had normal friends that she behaved normally around. You can only blame the parents to a certain extent and that still does not excuse what a person has done and if they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law or not.

JMO

ITA and is what I was trying to say in my earlier post. People who sit on jury's are not idiots.. IMO it will not work if the defense tries to blame Casey's parents for her killing her child. I don't think people realize how many of people in this country have been raised in much the same manner and never dream of murdering their children. I don't care if Casey was sexually, emotionally and physically abused, so were millions of other Americans and they don't go on to become murderers. Jurors know this!


This part of my post is not in response to your post-

I see we are back at trying to point at Bipolar as an excuse for murder. :banghead: Bipolar doesn't remove ones soul. It's personality disorders, not mood disorders that house things like lack of empathy and/or remorse, splitting, enmeshment, "crazy making" behaviors, failure to conform to social norms, consistent irresponsibility, blatent disregard for others, inability to maintain relationships, Failure to accept responsibility for their actions or trying to "rationalize" their behaviors, fears of abandonment, low tolerance for frustration, Shallow affect, lack of realistic, long-term goals, superficial charm and feelings of entitlement, uses others to achieve their own ends (the end justifies the means).

Really, the stigma attatched to each of these disorders is enough why do we want to keep adding more by claiming things that are just not true? Living with mental illness is hard but when you say "I have Bipolar" and have people assume you are a danger to others is stomach turning. The only things personality disorders and Bipolar have in common is the fluctuating of moods and impulsivity. We are more a danger to ourselves than we could ever be to anyone else.. We feel more than "normal" people do and once the mania has passed, our guilt eats us alive.

Sure Casey texted all night and went clubbing and had sex with whoever (typical Borderline behavior) if you are suggesting that's because she was manic at that time- when do you suggest she was depressed? This behavior went on a looong time, when did she crash? Never IMO. This is just who she is, typical of the personality disordered.
 
[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89819"]KC and family Psych Profile #10 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

:)
 
Interesting that you see bipolar, could be but I see more of an anti-social disorder because of her thought process which IMO seems to center around a very narcisstic profile. She doesn't recognize the difference b/w good consequences vs. bad consequences. She lacks the ability to grasp how her behavior affects others. And as far as the "mom" act she portrays it seems just that an act b/c she is unable to experience real genuine emotions.

Think of recognized serial killers such as Ted Bundy and Jefferey D. We can't imagine how someone could take the life of another for no other reason than "just because". They were able to commit those horrendous crimes b/c they lack the ability to feel those emotions.

Does my comment even make sense??
Novice Seeker

It sure does. Though I think she knows how her behavior effects others she just doesn't care. She was abused horribly by her own personality disordered mother (IMO), I have always felt that way I just don't think it is an excuse to kill.
 
You bring up a very good point here. Whether it is a "mitigating factor" it certainly is an ongoing issue for KC that played a big role (in my opinion) in why she responded the way she did. Since there were never any consequences for her negative behaviors and I sincerely doubt she ever faced a "come to Jesus meeting" with anyone of authority previously. KC has never had a "concept" of accepting responsiblity for her actions and working towards not letting that happen again. Lying is a coping skill in this home, whether it is GA lying about how he lost all that money on the internet, to CA lying about pizza/stolen cars/$, or KC lying about ZFG. These patterns of behavior are pervasive in this family.

And in millions of other family across America.
 
I was responding to the discussion here, in this thread, about Bipolar being a mitigating factor.
LOL, then I probably wasn't talking to you. :) It was a general post related to the earlier post I had made.
 
I happen to know of someone on death row (not personally, but I knew the guy's father many years back). The perp was 21 years old when he killed his father's girlfirend and 11 year old son by stabbing them to death in their home where he also was living at the time of the murders. He said committed the murders while on drugs, and was mad at his father because his father had sold his car earlier that day. He was raised by his single mother in TX where she beat him, where her many boyfriends also beat him. He also endured other abuse. The murders happened in Florida, and last night this thread got me curious about what ever happened to the guy - did he appeal (of course he did), is he still on deathrow, etc. While the murder was not quite the same as Caylee's murder - I still wondered what mitigating factors were used when sentencing this guy (I was also interested in his appeal). Seems his terrible family background (being raised by a single mother who was beyond abusive, being beaten by mother's numerous boyfriends, who was being subjected to beng in the same room while his mother had sex with men, etc) had no value when he was sentenced. He did not get life in prison, he got a death sentence and is still sitting on death row here in Florida. VERY INTERESTING reading for those who want to see an actual case where mitigating factors are discussed. Am I allowed to link to the court docs here or is it going off topic?
Well, I had to sleuth hard to find him. He's now in Florida State Hospital.

Sorry JBean...it's the "sleuth" in me.
 
No jumping on Bean E. That is rule 57! LOL!


I agree with you. After studying a bit recently about the visitors to Casey and what they specialize in, and listening to Professor Lyons seminars..... it is going to be brutal for mom and pop.

I hope that Brad has seen what we have all seen and read the writing on the wall and prepares them accordingly that she is going to be downright cruel to them. Perhaps some of the defense investigators questioning of them as of late has given them hints to what is to come and thus the are somber and uncharacteristically private right now.

Cindy, if you are reading here, brace yourself. The penalty phase is going to make brother Rick's letter look charming by comparison. Sure Andrea will apologize to them , profusely and in advance, but it is going to be brutal.

Brother Rick to Cindy in an e mail:
"Email from Rick to Cindy
August 21 2008 at 12:59 AM
Subject: Re: won’t do Greta

Cindy, George did wrestle his dad and put him thru the window. That is why George had to start his own business. Don’t lie to me about it. Mom filled me in on Casey so don’t lie to me about her. She STOLE dads check and bought a stupid phone at AT&T so don’t lie to me about the $354!!!! Mom has the god damn statement! I know I re verified with mom today!!! The sitter IS the whole case! Are you that dumb??? The house could be JOE BLOWS for Christ’s sake. are you that naive??? You really are that stupid. I can’t believe it. My sister is a moron. You need help. You are delirious! I WAS trying to help you. Your grand daughter is dead!! there I said it. Casey has killed her someway either by accident or on purpose. Casey is a narcissist Read up on it. You and George have been walking through life with blinders on. Casey made you both look like fools at my wedding. Did you forget I told you she was pregnant!!! You are a nurse for Christ’s sake. You are a fool. Casey has buffaloed you and George for a long time. I also know about George and the internet and he paid most of it back from his workers comp check. Casey ran up the tab. Mom knows and told me you idiot. You think what you d is secret? You are living a fantasy!! Wake the hell up sister!! George’s debt was paid over time in Ohio. I remember the settlement and that was from 1989. You think I am as dumb as you? You are not only in denial but are missing your brain. The article of clothing of the sitters was verified by who? Casey? No one ever saw the sitter so how could they have proven to be hers. What drugs are you on. You are so stupid I can’t take it. You should make the Guinness book of world records for being gullible. The only thing that God knows is Casey is a liar and you are stupid. Casey knows where Caylee is and when all the evidence is in she will get the death penalty for murder. You have to be a moron for destroying evidence with washing pants that smell like a dead body. If they were in the car and the smell was in the trunk how could the pants stink? Think use that think on your shoulders. If the cops didn’t think you were stupid they would bring charges against you and George for destroying evidence. I disowned Nate for lying for Pam and I can disown you for your ignorance. I see how Casey is so screwed up between you and George as role models. Saying Casey will be mother of the year I nearly tossed my groceries. She will be mutha of the year. Those people in prison will have a field day with her. You better tell her to confess and ask for solitary. It is her only hope. Do you think I care anymore after you attacked me. You are in another universe. You and George ARE on your own. Good luck with that.
Oh by the way, EVERYONE ON GRETA THINKS CAYLEE IS DEAD INCLUDING GRETA! DO YOU EVER WATCH HER SHOW? WHAT A MORON YOU ARE!!! MENTAL HOSPITAL HERE YOU COME!!!"

Red Mine.

I kinda doubt that Brad will do much to prepare them for what is to come...he sure didn't prepare them at all for the Morgan depos.
 
I hope it's okay to add this in addition to my former post about the Anthony's being a mitigating factor: I can see the prosecution really going against any attempts to say they caused anything. They could say that if only Casey had obeyed the laws against stealing and killing she would be sitting out on patio with her family right now enjoying a drink, living in a lovely home, having built in babysitters, and support to do what she wants whether it would be to work, be a stay at home mom, give them custody of the baby, or go back to school.
 
Red Mine.

I kinda doubt that Brad will do much to prepare them for what is to come...he sure didn't prepare them at all for the Morgan depos.

I don't think they are going to try to vilify Cindy and George but that's just me. I think they are going to use their "faith" in their daughter as a reason to keep her alive. "Ladies and gentlemen, her parents do not think she is capable of this, how will they ever be able to come to terms with their daughters crime, murdering their precious grandchild that they themselves were raising if they cannot spend time with and speak to her.. hopefully someday getting the truth from her, if she is dead? That would be punishing the grandparents more than Ms. Anthony herself. Please spare this womans life for her parents sake... blah blah blah"

ETA- no joke in re: to Brad, what a waste!
 
You bring up a very good point here. Whether it is a "mitigating factor" it certainly is an ongoing issue for KC that played a big role (in my opinion) in why she responded the way she did. Since there were never any consequences for her negative behaviors and I sincerely doubt she ever faced a "come to Jesus meeting" with anyone of authority previously. KC has never had a "concept" of accepting responsiblity for her actions and working towards not letting that happen again. Lying is a coping skill in this home, whether it is GA lying about how he lost all that money on the internet, to CA lying about pizza/stolen cars/$, or KC lying about ZFG. These patterns of behavior are pervasive in this family.

I beg to differ. It's like saying that the perp's 'halcyon' days after she murdered Caylee - getting the tattoo, dancing at Fusian, living off her friend's bank account, etc., etc., was merely "ugly coping". The perp's lying is pathological and self-serving; it has nothing to do with coping. I would say the jury is still out on the rest of the As except that their lying is also self-serving, but then I do think they are a sociopathic family a la the Mafia. "Ugly coping" as a mitigating factor? Every liar and thief could use that. I doubt the jury would buy it.
 
Other mitigating factors to spare the dp could be:

1) No previous history w/the law (prior to 7/08)
2) "Good Parent" as reported by many friends and relatives
3) No evidence of violent behaviors in the past
4) "Good ?" student (I am guessing since she was close to graduating)
5) "Employed for a period of time" - except she just didn't show back up to work
6) No previous CPS reports (until after Caylee missing) - again I am assuming
7) Had long term relationships (ie: friends & neighbors) in the community prior to 7/08.
8) Has support of friends and family (at least GA, CA, & LA)
9) Has positive attributes in which she could still be a contributing member of the prison society (ie: likes to clean house and cook for others)

ps: don't beat me up please - just offering ideas

Also don't forget: that the family of the victim and the accused (one in the same) doesn't want the DP - and the defendant's young age as a single mother and also, her young age at the time of committing the crime.


One more thing they might bring up is that there were witnesses to her asking for help and that she knew she needed help and at one time did try express that need to those around her, she even tried to convince her parents to let her give Caylee up!
 
Was just reading through some old threads on Mitigating factors, and looking at opinions about GA and CA from two years ago, and whether or not they would be tossed under the bus.

Bumping some very interesting info and comments on this short thread!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
152
Guests online
2,528
Total visitors
2,680

Forum statistics

Threads
603,765
Messages
18,162,705
Members
231,848
Latest member
Niceperson
Back
Top