MN MN - Amy Pagnac, 13, Osseo, 5 Aug 1989

[Whisper2112]

Something I just thought of. Many years back I had to call the police to report an incidence of violence that I witnessed, a grown man shoved a teenager down to the ground. The police chatted with me, filled out a police report, REQUIRED me to read it over and sign my name. Things certainly could have changed over the years but were Marshall and/or Susan not required to sign the original police report?

That would be an excellent question to ask the Maple grove PD. Since they have the report, they would likely be able to verify that information.

 

[Whisper2112]

We get it. Marshall adopted Amy. However, the media is not incorrect in referring to him as her non-biological dad. Regardless of if you think it is insensitive or is muddying the waters it is a fact

Adoptive parents are real parents. Treating them as sub-parents is prejudiced.

 

[Whisper2112]

http://kstp.com/news/missing-minnesotans-amy-sue-pagnac/4341864/?cat=1

So, LE wants to know who Amy's biological father is. Won't Susan tell them his name? Does she not know who her father is? This is so strange...

Captain Lindquist said the family has cooperated with Law Enforcement after the last big news cycle on this subject, so I'd imagine they have all the information that the family has. It doesn't seem like information the public would need in order to try to help bring attention to the fact that Amy is missing.

 

[Damarna]

Adoptive parents are real parents. Treating them as sub-parents is prejudiced.

I'm not sure I've seen anyone indicating that adoptive parents are sub parents. I HAVE seen questions as to who her biological father was. Speaking for myself, I think back to some MP cases the biological father may be investigated to rule out his involvement. I think it's a valid question here.

I admit I was confused about M being the adoptive father. I'm use to when a child is adopted she (as in my case) takes on the adoptive father's name. But, as is this case, that's not how it always is.

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[Whisper2112]

I'm not sure I've seen anyone indicating that adoptive parents are sub parents. I HAVE seen questions as to who her biological father was. Speaking for myself, I think back to some MP cases the biological father may be investigated to rule out his involvement. I think it's a valid question here.

I admit I was confused about M being the adoptive father. I'm use to when a child is adopted she (as in my case) takes on the adoptive father's name. But, as is this case, that's not how it always is.

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I strikes me as implied when you use terms like "step" and "non-biological" instead of just stating the relationship as it is. Kind of like it gives me pause when someone points out the race or the religion of an individual when it is not relevant.

The request for the biological father to come forward is very recent. The whole "stepfather" thing is years old, and persists despite numerous corrections made by the family. That seems telling to me, but then again, as I have several adopted family members it is maybe more apparent to me that there is anti-adoption prejudice in play when people degrade the relationship of an adoptive parent to merely "Step".

 

[Damarna]

I strikes me as implied when you use terms like "step" and "non-biological" instead of just stating the relationship as it is. Kind of like it gives me pause when someone points out the race or the religion of an individual when it is not relevant.

The request for the biological father to come forward is very recent. The whole "stepfather" thing is years old, and persists despite numerous corrections made by the family. That seems telling to me, but then again, as I have several adopted family members it is maybe more apparent to me that there is anti-adoption prejudice in play when people degrade the relationship of an adoptive parent to merely "Step".

I'm sorry in your experience you've faced an unfair prejudice toward adoptive parents. I've absolutely had the opposite experience in my life. Let's move past these feelings and focus on getting Amy home.

Whisper2112, you have great passion for Amy and her family. I appreciate that.

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[Whisper2112]

I'm sorry in your experience you've faced an unfair prejudice toward adoptive parents. I've absolutely had the opposite experience in my life. Let's move past these feelings and focus on getting Amy home.

Whisper2112, you have great passion for Amy and her family. I appreciate that.

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I agree, let's get past all the bad, erroneous, and incidental conjecture that seems to be going on in this thread, and find Amy.

Clearly, the best hope of finding Amy is to get the word out that the police are still looking for information. Please get behind the organizations that are helping to do that, and share their posters and share the stories about Amy and let people know that there is a reason to look for her.

It doesn't do any good to spread false info. So those who claim that information was not shared with the police, who claim that the police were not called, who claim that "nothing was done", who claim that the family never worked with the Jacob Wetterling Resource Center (just as a for instance), and claim the family didn't look, who claim the family left town in spite of the fact that the family have said they didn't leave town (but offer no proof to show the family is lying) etc...should try to verify their information.

It is frustrating to see such easily checked claims made that are obviously false. If you don't believe that the family has worked to find Amy, for instance, then just call one of the missing person's organizations that have been listed as organizations the family has worked with, and ask if Amy has been registered with them as a missing child.

If you don't believe that the family has worked to bring her case before the public and begged people to come forward with information, do a google search, and see if you can find any stories about Amy where the family has asked the public to come forward with information...

It's not rocket science. A small amount of time at the computer will reveal that indeed, there has been some sloppy reporting over the years, but it's not difficult to sort the bad information from the good if you spend a little time analyzing it. And, of course, if you come at it with a determination to try to help.

I often wonder if, some of the comments that you see on various news articles, might be made by the kids who were bullying Amy, and just can't let go.

 

[BethAnn777]

That would be an excellent question to ask the Maple grove PD. Since they have the report, they would likely be able to verify that information.

Good idea. I will ask them and let you all know what I find out.

 

[BethAnn777]

RSBM

I often wonder if, some of the comments that you see on various news articles, might be made by the kids who were bullying Amy, and just can't let go.

Wow. There's a thought. I wonder if LE ever questioned her classmates about the alleged bullying?

 

[flourish]

Then you do not accept the parent's assertion that it was reported wrong in the Garland report, and you do not accept Susan Sr.'s clarification that the appointment was for Amy, and that they told officer Garland about the appointment for Amy? That's your prerogative. But unless you have proof that this is not what happened, it is just speculation. If you do have proof that this is ot how it went down, you should go to the police with it immediately.

I'm not going to engage in whatever it is you're after. There is obviously a personal component here we do not share.

There was lots of discussion about the appointment. There were conflicting accounts. I don't automatically believe or disbelieve the parents. I do wonder about various people's roles and the origins of their big feelings.

 

[flourish]

Yes, perhaps Amy's mother is just a more confident speaker in those type of situations.

However, it would be nice for the father/stepfather to give his account of the day (and days leading up to) Amy's disappearance. There are so many conflicting and confusing accounts floating around, that it would be incredibly useful to get a definitive account from the only person who is able to provide that information. He may possess some important nuggets of information that could break this case, without even realising how important they are.

Bump. Sure would be cool to hear from him, I agree!

 

[Whisper2112]

I'm not going to engage in whatever it is you're after. There is obviously a personal component here we do not share.

There was lots of discussion about the appointment. There were conflicting accounts. I don't automatically believe or disbelieve the parents. I do wonder about various people's roles and the origins of their big feelings.

I also wonder about various people's roles and their big feelings that cloud their ability to read and understand simple and straightforward statements.

How about just the simple fact that after all this time, and all the information that has been gathered (a whole roomful, dedicated just to Amy), with the family fully cooperating (as stated by Captain Lindquist in his press conference after the conclusion of the search), they have not been able to name a suspect or a person of interest?

Doesn't that indicate that there might be a good reason to look at broadening the search and thinking a little more widely about where and how to look?

I guess that familiar ground is comfortable, but you're not going to find anything new if you don't expand your horizons.

I don't happen to believe that the Maple Grove PD has done all that they have done; spent so much time and dedicated so many investigative resources, only to miss something obvious right in front of their noses. Does anyone here really think, that with all of the times that people have posted these half-baked theories all over dozens of forums all over the internet, that MGPD hasn't checked them out? It seems pretty obvious that if they did check them out, they found nothing to indicate any suspects or people of interest.

It is very frustrating, because the idea that Amy could be out there, and there should be more support for Amy And her family. Getting people to share the posters and the stories about Amy out into the world could actually do some real good. Go to the organizations that are supporting the case, and share the information they put out, and you might reach the person who can help.

 

[human]

So what did the PI find about Amy?

People have asked for info.

We are told police reports are wrong.

We are told info is secret.

We are told we should search the internet for info.

But when people post info found, it is scoffed at and shamed.

Strange .

 

[BethAnn777]

These PIs were working directly with Missing Children Minnesota, and they are pretty careful who they work with.

Hey there Whisper. I was reading back through the thread and this post caught my eye. Do you have a MSM link for this info.? I ask because this is the first I have heard that the P.I.'s had any affiliation with Missing Children Minnesota.

 

[Damarna]

I am Amy's mother. Many of you have had a lot of good questions. Regarding the statement, that Amy "suffered from fits of anger", I have no idea why that statement is there. I have no idea what they meant. Amy has never been violent, or harmed anyone.

Yes there was a witness that saw Amy and her father leaves the farm. A private investigator is the one that found that witness, and provided the information to the police.

This same private investigator found somebody that had known Amy prior to her going missing. This person stated that she had talked to Amy. It was sometime within the 1st 2 weeks of her going missing. This information was also provided to the police.

There was a call to one of missing children organizations, stating they felt that Amy was too young to be with the people she was with. Amy also identified herself as Amy Sue Pagnac. The location of this was at a bus or train station on the West Coast. Amy used almost the exact same statements with both individuals, with regard to why she wasn't at home. This information I was shown to me by the original detective that was on the case.

Amy's case was considered a run-away case for several months. After they decided that it was not a run-away case, the procedures of the investigation were: we invited them into our house to look for anything that they wanted; giving them the keys to the farm for which they searched in 1990; more interrogations of us including the Hennepin County Sheriff department interviewed Amy's father for several hours, they cleared him, the detective showed me their report; verified what we had told them, including the timeline; there are other things, but it is too long and detailed.

After all that, the original detective on Amy's case made it perfectly clear to us that he was certain that Amy was the victim of a nonfamily abduction.

February or March of 1990, 2 different undercover private investigators, from a Nonprofit missing child organization, stated that they spotted Amy in a strip club, in the Midwest. Before they could act to rescue her she was moved to elsewhere. I believe these investigators did see Amy.

Maple Grove Police Department moved to a different building unfortunately, many of the records on Amy's case were lost. Timelines, witnesses, gas receipts etc.

Because of lost records, these 2 individuals need to call the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children and provide them more information about the situation, including the individuals they saw Amy with.

We have made ourselves available almost anytime the police asked, except for when one was in the hospital, etc. We have called many times asking for updates, or if there's anything else we can do, etc. Usually they never get back to us. We have been interviewed by local law enforcement, several times. They complained we don't tell them anything different or new.

Yes Amy's father is a male. Usually men do use the restrooms a lot faster than women; even men that washed their hands well usually are a little bit faster. But you know sometimes one has to do more than urination.

Both Marshall and I are listed as Amy's parents on her birth certificate.

I wanted to bring this post forward for the purpose of reminders of what this poster identified as Amy's mom stated. Geez, I wish she would have gone through the verified insider steps and stayed with us!

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[human]

I wanted to bring this post forward for the purpose of reminders of what this poster identified as Amy's mom stated. Geez, I wish she would have gone through the verified insider steps and stayed with us!

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Too bad there is no info that can be put out there such as which strip club, where on the West Coast, for instance.

I wonder why the info is not made public as with the Jacob Wetterling case. His supposed sitings and the people who were thought to be him were made public. Of course it was all wrong, but nevertheless the info was put out there

 

[Whisper2112]

So what did the PI find about Amy?

People have asked for info.

We are told police reports are wrong.

We are told info is secret.

We are told we should search the internet for info.

But when people post info found, it is scoffed at and shamed.

Strange .

You have been told that the PI gave all the information he found to the police, and that the parents were told what they know about the incident by the police. They have shared everything that they can about what the police told them. They have stated that they were told not to share specific information. So. If you want to know what the police found out, your best bet is to ask the police. The phone number for Maple Grove PD is public.

You were told that one police report was inaccurate, and that another, more accurate report was filed. For some reason, the report that the parents say was inaccurate is the one that is quoted in the media. It would be interesting to see the second (corrected) report. Again, the Maple Grove police are the people who would be able to share that. Again, their contact information is public and easily available.

It seems reasonable that you would search for public information, or at least read the preceding conversation in a forum before demanding that people provide information again that they have already provided. That is basic netiquette, and has been for decades.

Rumor and innuendo SHOULD be scoffed at and shamed. Information is truly valuable. However, "I heard once that he put an alien landing pad in his back yard" when anyone can see from arial photos that it is a patio. That's not information. The question "why did he stop to go to the bathroom two miles from home" when it is clear that he had a receipt for a gas purchase at that gas station is not information. It's a ridiculous question that should be scoffed at. The trip to the bathroom was secondary to stopping for gas. The assertion that Amy is buried in the front yard, made with no evidence, and assuming that the MGPD has not investigated such a pervasive and high-profile rumor and ruled it out is profoundly insulting to the MGPD. After all, you can hardly find an article online about this case where someone does not bring this up. But do you really think that the MGPD just ignored that all these years and did nothing to check it out? That's not very likely.

If I had to guess, I would say they probably went and looked at public records of some kind to determine when the landscaping was done, and found that it was done when the parents say it was done, and that the neighbors are misremembering the timeline. It wouldn't require any extraordinary police work to look into that.

 

[human]

This is a place to put out information.

If someone has credible information such as the PI report, why is it being kept secret and comments made to call the police department? I do not understand how that is helping anyone

 

[flourish]

This is a place to put out information.

If someone has credible information such as the PI report, why is it being kept secret and comments made to call the police department? I do not understand how that is helping anyone

It's not. I've come to believe not everyone's intentions are to bring clarity and a conclusion to this case, but rather confusion and obfuscation.

Otherwise, why not provide all this information instead of being rude and telling people they're wrong but not actually providing what it right? It's easy to say, "that's wrong, you're wrong, police are wrong," but providing the actual information to back it up is either impossible or there's an unwillingness. I can't imagine an unwillingness is remotely helpful, which is why I'm guessing being helpful is not the goal.

Pretty sad. You've got several sleuths at your disposal but you'd rather berate them than utilize their curiosity and skills to help.

Poor Amy. Getting lost in the BS.

I'm not calling the freaking police department when clearly posters are implying there's information abounding but aren't willing to offer it.

Until someone actually provides actual information, we can't exactly ascertain its value, can we? Maybe that's the point? The point sure doesn't seem to be resolving Amy's case!

 

[Whisper2112]

Too bad there is no info that can be put out there such as which strip club, where on the West Coast, for instance.

I wonder why the info is not made public as with the Jacob Wetterling case. His supposed sitings and the people who were thought to be him were made public. Of course it was all wrong, but nevertheless the info was put out there

All cases are different. And, not all Law Enforcement are the same, and not all departments have the same processes or cultures.

So, it would actually be really weird for two different law enforcement agencies to handle two different cases the same way.