MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 *officers charged* #3

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Well put! Some are arguing he was saying “I can’t breathe” before he went on the ground and thus he was already dying at that point. But even if that’s the argument, as a police officer Chauvin had a duty to preserve life. And if someone is telling him ‘I can’t breathe’ how do you justify proceeding to restrict that persons airway for 8-9 minutes?

Another argument is well he was talking so he was breathing. He was just malingering and resisting arrest. OK, but then a person who said “I can’t breathe” stopped talking and moving, so of course logically Chauvin had to keep restricting his airway for another couple minutes?

Either way you slice and dice it, I don’t know how he’s not guilty of manslaughter at the very least.
I agree! I believe he will be found guilty , IMO , of the second degree manslaughter charge based on what I’ve seen in the full body cam video and read in the official county autopsy report.
Since it was reported in the autopsy that there was no muscle or tissue damage to the neck, I think the murder charges will be difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt.

But there is little doubt, again IMO, that DC’s behavior that day constituted negligence and contributed to the death of GF.
 
I want to hear what the reason was for not putting George on his side, so he could breathe.


Gray has previously argued in court that the case against Lane, a rookie, should be dismissed because he expressed concern about Floyd’s struggles to breathe and had asked Chauvin — a 19-year veteran — about rolling Floyd from his stomach onto his side. He deferred to Chauvin, and later boarded an ambulance and performed CPR on Floyd.

“It’s not a case where he’s standing by watching another cop pound on somebody’s head,” Gray said. “This is a case where my client twice — twice — asked if we should turn him over and the answer from [Chauvin] was no.”

Former officer Thomas Lane's attorney seeks dismissal of charges in George Floyd killing
 
I was referring to him taking a shot at the city attorney or whoever said they “disagree with the premise” that the settlement news prejudiced the jury pool.
Yes, but I thought he said it after only one of the jurors said he could not be fair or impartial, and was dismissed. So hopefully not all the jurors will feel that way. There is probably going to be a lot of publicity during the trial but I suppose the judge can always sequester the jury. The news about the settlement came right at the worst moment, it's too bad there wasn't some way to avoid it.
 
I want to hear what the reason was for not putting George on his side, so he could breathe.


Gray has previously argued in court that the case against Lane, a rookie, should be dismissed because he expressed concern about Floyd’s struggles to breathe and had asked Chauvin — a 19-year veteran — about rolling Floyd from his stomach onto his side. He deferred to Chauvin, and later boarded an ambulance and performed CPR on Floyd.

“It’s not a case where he’s standing by watching another cop pound on somebody’s head,” Gray said. “This is a case where my client twice — twice — asked if we should turn him over and the answer from [Chauvin] was no.”

Former officer Thomas Lane's attorney seeks dismissal of charges in George Floyd killing

Me too! This is another factor that I think works against the defense. Another officer on the scene thought you should roll Floyd on his side. Another officer who was experiencing the same behavior from Floyd asked that question. So this nullifies the argument “unless you’re a police officer you can’t judge because police officers are dealing with dangerous situations and have to make quick decisions.”
 
Well put! Some are arguing he was saying “I can’t breathe” before he went on the ground and thus he was already dying at that point. But even if that’s the argument, as a police officer Chauvin had a duty to preserve life. And if someone is telling him ‘I can’t breathe’ how do you justify proceeding to restrict that persons airway for 8-9 minutes?

Another argument is well he was talking so he was breathing. He was just malingering and resisting arrest. OK, but then a person who said “I can’t breathe” stopped talking and moving, so of course logically Chauvin had to keep restricting his airway for another couple minutes?

Either way you slice and dice it, I don’t know how he’s not guilty of manslaughter at the very least.
Yes, I think he did tell them he could not breath several times before they ever put him on the ground. I don't know that he was dying, but not being able to breath is usually an indication that something is wrong. I don't know what standard protocol is in that situation, but they should have at least taken him seriously and checked his vital signs and called for help. What I'm sure is not normal protocol is kneeling on someone's neck for 8 minutes until it's clear they are no longer breathing.

And yes, being police officers they should have known it's not true that when you can talk, you can breathe. Not being able to breathe is usually considered a medical emergency. Imo
 
Cathy Russon
@cathyrusson
·
24m
#DerekChauvinTrial - First juror up today is #127, Male. Went back to school at age 50, changed careers to a pipe fitter. He police defunding the police is "lunacy". On Black Lives Matter he says it's a political entity.

22m
PJ 127 Police make him feel safe, he said "police are great". On questionnaire he had a negative opinion of #GeorgeFloyd questioning why he resisted officers.

21m
Judge dismissed PJ 127 for cause on state's request.

20m
Judge has given the defense a strike back for juror 121 yesterday. That juror now officially dismissed for cause.

20m
New strike count:

State: 8/10

Defense: 14/18

19m
Now PJ 129, Female.

14m
PJ 129 on hearing settlement news, "I wasn't very happy about that...I just..I don't know how to explain...it....I'm not sure how to explain, I just wasn't very happy about it."

10m
PJ 129 , mom of 3 younger kids. She believes in the police and would be more swayed for police. Judge asks if she can be impartial, she says "yes".

3m
PJ 129 fears for the safety of her family, doesn't want to be on this case. Judge dismissed her for cause.

2m
Recess until 10:45 CT. Judge also said, "I have to discuss some camera issues as well."

link: https://twitter.com/cathyrusson
 
Mark Geragos, Scott Peterson’s lawyer in the original trial (not sure if he’s still his lawyer in the appeal process) was talking on a podcast recorded a week ago about how he thinks generally prosecutors are inept when it comes to prosecuting cops. And he think the prosecution is letting a lot of pro-defense jurors on this trial, and he’s questioning what they’re thinking.

I somewhat agree with this because watching some of these cop trials the last few years, the prosecutors seem tepid whereas the defense lawyers are on fire. Nelson is doing a fantastic job! And he just personally comes across well even in questioning PJs.

Meanwhile the prosecution table seems to be an ever evolving door of people sitting there for the camera time or I don’t know what the reason is. But it looks bad! It looks really bad to have a piecemeal prosecution where you have several attorneys playing bits. This case is not nearly as convoluted as some of these high profile murder trials I’ve seen and there you got 2 prosecutors on top of it all! What gives? It can’t be public pressure because God knows some of these high profile murder trials get a ton of public scrutiny. Obviously these cop cases have the added political pressure. Too many cooks in the kitchen? Something is up it seems to me. JMO. Anyone feel the same?
 
Schleicher strikes again weakening my argument above!

Edited to add: NVM. Wow state passed on 131!
 
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State vs. Chauvin trial Day 12: Final juror selected

Juror No. 131 has been accepted as the 15th and final jury member.

Juror No. 131 is an accountant who is married with a puppy at home. He describes himself as a competitive person who likes to follow sports. He also noted he will be moving out of the state at the end of May.

He said he was "shocked" to find out he was summoned for jury duty relating to this trial.

He believes the duration Chauvin had his knee on Floyd's neck was "unnecessary." He also believes it shouldn't have taken four officers to respond to the original call.

The man said he has not posted any opinions on his social media regarding the incident, however, has discussed with coworkers what he could do personally and what they could do as an organization to help end racism.

The juror in question does not support defunding police.

"They provide a service to our society... If we're talking about shifting funds, then that's a conversation to have, but cutting funding is not something I would support," he said, further stating they are an "essential" part of our communities.

The juror has maintained that he would be able to be impartial if he would be selected to serve on the jury.

He believes people shouldn't kneel for the National Anthem. He says he prefers a different method for some to get their message across.

In regards to the rioting and looting, he said Black Lives Matter was a contributing factor to it.

He says there are two different sides of Blue Lives Matter people: those who are using it as an excuse to argue for, and those who are willing to changing and improving things. He also believes there is room for improvement for criminal justice, specifically for corrections. He said he has read up on the statistics
 
Oh shoot - totally got off track here - and forgot about the tweets.... :rolleyes: busy day - trying to get everything together for my trip to the hospital!!

I'll go over and copy/paste Cathy's tweets.... BRB! :)
 
Cathy Russon
@cathyrusson
·
2h
#DerekChauvinTrial - Now PJ 130, Male. being questioned.

2h
PJ 130 says everything he saw over the summer really affected him and he's not sure he can be impartial.

2h
Judge dismisses PJ 130 for cause. 3 up, 3 down this morning

2h
PJ 131. Male. Saw headlines of settlement, says it won't impact his ability to serve.

2h
PJ 131- Married, has a puppy, moving out of MN at the end of May. Loves sports.

2h
PJ 131, initial reaction to summons was surprise stating the size of the county he thought he chances were low. The barricades and Natl Guard at the courthouse was "intimidating"

2 hr
PJ 131 has seen the bystander video, "Maybe 30 seconds or so", while scrolling through the news.

2hr
PJ 131 - On questionnaire about what he knows about George Floyd death he wrote that the initial autopsy didn't say he died from "suffocation" but a second one did.

2hr
PJ 131 - On questionnaire he said while he doesn't have all the facts it didn't seem necessary for 4 officers to respond to a counterfeit bill and kneeling on his neck for 5-10 also seemed unnecessary.

2h
PJ 131 says he can put aside any opinions he might have and listen to the facts. Had no opinion about #GeorgeFloyd on questionnaire.

2h
PJ 131 wrote "negatively" affected by the protests/riots last summer. He said the dialogue is good but when it shifted to rioting the message gets lost

2h
PJ 131 - "strongly agreed" with police in his community make him feel safe. "Strongly disagree" with defunding the police.

2h
PJ 131 - Defense passed for cause. State no questioning

2h
PJ 131 on athletics kneeling during National Anthem he said he wished they would use a different way to get their message out.

2h
15 jurors seated in #DerekChauvinTrial . Judge announces that the 15th juror will be excused Monday if all 14, after being polled, are still eligible to serve.

2h
- Recess until Monday, March 29, 9am CT/10am ET for opening statements.

1h
Judge confirmed the reason there's only 2 alternates is space limitations saying, "..that's all we have room for. We could seat 15 if we had room..."

1h
15th juror (PJ131) is self-identified as white man, 20s.

Chauvin jury.png
^^click on it to make it bigger

link: https://twitter.com/cathyrusson
 
No. 2: White man, 20s
He described himself as a chemist and environmental studies scientist who said he typically views life through an analytical lens.

Defense attorney Eric Nelson asked him to expand on some of the answers he gave on his written questionnaire, particularly a question concerning Black Lives Matter.

“I support the message that every life should matter equally,” the juror said. “I don’t believe that the organization Black Lives Matter necessarily stands for that.”

The juror was also asked to expand on answers he gave about disparities in policing and about the criminal justice system. He said he doesn’t necessarily think Minneapolis police are more likely to use force against Black people than they would against others.

However, he said he believes the criminal justice system is biased against racial and ethnic minorities. He said there was a lot of evidence to support that opinion.

No. 9: Multi/mixed race woman, 20s
She describes herself as easygoing, and a mediator among her friends.

In her questionnaire, she said she had somewhat negative impressions of Chauvin, but that she could keep an open mind and be fair. She also said she believes the Black Lives Matter movement, along with Blue Lives Matter, has turned into a disingenuous marketing scheme for corporations.

She has an uncle who’s a police officer in central Minnesota, but said that wouldn't affect her opinion.

When the judge told her she was chosen, she said, "Awesome."

No. 19: White man, 30s
He said he’s in client services and has had to resolve conflicts before.

In his questionnaire, he indicated his view of Chauvin was “somewhat negative” because he didn’t resuscitate Floyd, and that he supports Black Lives Matter in a general context. He also said he has some unfavorable views of Blue Lives Matter.

He said he has a “friend of a friend” who is a Minneapolis K-9 officer but that he hasn’t spoken to him about the case or seen him since the pandemic.

He said he’s seen the bystander video about two or three times, not in full, as part of news articles.

No. 27: Black man, 30s
He told the court he came to the United States 14 years ago, speaks multiple languages, works in information technology and is married.

Nelson asked the juror about an answer he provided on the written questionnaire about the death of Floyd. “And you said, ‘It could have been me or anyone else.' Can you explain that a little?” asked Nelson.

“It could have been anybody. It could have been you,” replied the juror. “I also used to live not far from that area (38th Street and Chicago Avenue in south Minneapolis) when I first met my wife. So that is why I said it could have been me. It could have been anybody.”

Asked if he had any particular opinions about the Minneapolis Police Department or law enforcement in general, the man said he did not. The juror also said he felt somewhat supportive of both Black Lives Matter and Blue Lives Matter.

“And you wrote that you believe ‘our cops need to be safe and feel and be safe to protect our community,’” Nelson read from the juror’s questionnaire. “Correct,” said the juror.

No. 44: White woman, 50s
The court held part of her questioning without audio while they discussed a sensitive matter with the juror. She later said in her work for a nonprofit advocacy group, she’s had contact with Attorney General Keith Ellison.

When asked if she felt that would jeopardize her ability to be an impartial juror, she said no.

Nelson asked the juror about her answers on the jury questionnaire pertaining to the treatment of people of color by the criminal justice system.

“I do believe there’s bias,” said the woman. “I’ve seen it in my work.”

The woman also said had formed a somewhat negative opinion of Chauvin. But she said she had sympathy and empathy, not only for Floyd, but for the officers involved.

“Everyone’s lives are changed by this incident and what happened. Everyone’s lives,” she said. “And it’s not easy. For anyone.”

No. 52: Black man, 30s
He said he works in the banking industry and is a youth sports coach.

In his questionnaire, he said he was neutral on Chauvin and Floyd. He said he had seen the video and has wondered why the other officers didn’t intervene.

Prosecutor Steve Schleicher questioned one of the juror's statements made during questioning by the defense. The man had said he didn’t think anyone had the intent to cause Floyd’s death.

Schleicher said Chauvin’s intentions will be contested during the trial and asked him if he’d have a problem setting aside his opinion.

“I don’t think it would be that difficult at all,” he said. “I think I can definitely look at it with an objective point of view.”

No. 55: White woman, 50s
She said she works in health care as an executive assistant.

The juror said she couldn’t watch the full video because she found it too disturbing.

She also said in her questionnaire she has a somewhat negative opinion of Chauvin but that he’s innocent until proven otherwise.

She said she has a somewhat unfavorable opinion of Black Lives Matter, acknowledging that she perceives it to possibly mean that other lives don’t matter. She wrote on her questionnaire, “I believe all lives matter,” according to notes from the pool reporter.

No. 79: Black man, 40s
He said he works in management capacity, and that he has not formed an opinion about who is responsible for Floyd’s death.

In his questionnaire, he said he had a neutral opinion of Chauvin and a “somewhat positive” impression of Floyd.

He said he strongly disagreed with defunding police, noting that his house was burglarized once and he had to call the police. The man said he immigrated to the United States.

No. 85: Multi/mixed race woman, 40s
She said she works in organizational management.

In responses to the court, she said was always taught to respect police but added that she wouldn't have trouble second-guessing their decisions if needed.

“Police officers are human,” she said. “They’re not robots that are programmed to all behave in the exact same way. So I feel like as humans, they can make mistakes as well.”

No. 89: White woman, 50s
She said she’s a cardiac care nurse who lives in the suburbs.

She was questioned in depth about her medical training and whether she would second-guess police on resuscitation efforts. She was also asked whether she would reference her nursing experience during deliberations. She said she could avoid it, and would not act as an expert during deliberations.

“I think I can be impartial and listen to instructions and go with what I’m given and ignore the outside stuff,” she said.

No. 91: Black woman, 60s
She said she’s retired from a job in marketing, and that she has a degree in psychology. She volunteers with underserved youth. She grew up in south Minneapolis near where Floyd died.

She said she watched a few minutes of the bystander video of Floyd’s arrest before shutting it off.

She has a relative who is a Minneapolis police officer but they are not close.

She said she believes Blacks and whites do not receive equal treatment, noting that a white U.S. Capitol riot suspect was allowed to go on vacation in Mexico after she was charged.

She said she doesn’t follow the news closely and does not know enough yet to judge the case one way or another.

No. 92: White woman, 40s
She said she works in communications, and has been with the same company for 15 years.

She disagrees with defunding the police but believes change is needed based on what she's seen in media coverage of racism.

She noted somewhat negative views of both Chauvin and Floyd, that she didn’t believe Floyd deserved to die, and that police used excessive force. But she also noted she didn’t think Floyd was innocent either, according to notes from a pool reporter.

She said she understands there are reasons people struggle with addiction.

No. 96: White woman, 50s
She described herself as an animal lover who is passionate about advocacy for affordable housing and homelessness. She told the court said she recently resigned from her customer service-related job. The juror noted she feels like she is good at de-escalating conflicts and getting both sides to come together for a resolution.

She said she had seen video clips of the bystander video a few times and is also aware of the $27 million settlement.

In her questionnaire, she wrote that the restraint used on Floyd was “ultimately responsible” for his death, but under questioning she acknowledged that was her assumption based on what she had seen. She acknowledged the video may not show the entirety of what happened.

No. 118: White woman, 20s
The juror is a social worker who has relatives who are nurses.

In her line of work, she's had to call the police to remove unruly people. When asked by the prosecution if she's ever seen someone not comply with the police, she said she has not. Schleicher, the prosecutor, wondered if she would blame a person who doesn't comply with police for injuries resulting from a police encounter. She said everyone needs to be treated with respect even if they are suspected of a crime.

She disagrees with defunding police, but under questioning about police reform said that “there are good things and things that should be changed.”

The juror said she’s discussed the case with family members, including one who said they thought Chauvin should not have kept his knee on Floyd's neck for that long.

She said her decision regarding a verdict would not affect her relationship with family and she wouldn't feel the need to justify it. She said she's curious to hear more about police training that may have influenced how the encounter unfolded.

No. 131: White man, 20s
He described himself as an accountant and a sports fan. When asked by Schleicher about his opinion on athletes who “take a knee” during the national anthem, the man said, “I would prefer if someone would express their beliefs in a different manner. But I understand what they are trying to do and raise the dialogue on certain issues.”

The man said that after watching the bystander video from May 25, 2020, he felt like Chauvin’s use of force lasted too long.

He said he generally believes racial minorities are treated unfairly by the criminal justice system.

He strongly disagrees with the notion of defunding the Minneapolis Police Department. “I believe the force is a necessary and integral part of our society,” he said.

The man will be dismissed if none of the other jurors drop out by Monday, when opening statements begin.
 
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