MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #13

[Trino]

RBBM. Why indeed. Why abduct a child from another state....why ask three boys their ages? Part of the answer to this case is in the behavior and words of the abductor. Another part is the story in the tracks on the road. And the last part is why? It is "assumed" to have been a pedophile abduction. What are other possible reasons? To take the place of a deceased son?

Mossad is correct about one thing, we keep rehashing the same assumptions and what little case information we have. We cannot and may never get the answers from the Sterns County Sheriff. This case is still active on their books many years after similar cases nationwide were dumped in with the cold case files. There is much more going on than what we are seeing.

It may take someone with a specific skill set and boots on the ground to solve this.

Someone is hiding something.

Someone meaning someone who knows the abductor or someone from Stearns Co?

 

[chaplain1]

Someone meaning someone who knows the abductor or someone from Stearns Co?

If Mossad or others have true inside information, I would suggest getting Jeff Anderson in Stillwater a call. He has fought for child safety for years and has funded many of PW's campaigns. He is also one of the wealthiest Minnesotans, having sued the Catholic Church from coast to coast.

 

[chaplain1]

RBBM. Why indeed. Why abduct a child from another state....why ask three boys their ages? Part of the answer to this case is in the behavior and words of the abductor. Another part is the story in the tracks on the road. And the last part is why? It is "assumed" to have been a pedophile abduction. What are other possible reasons? To take the place of a deceased son?

Mossad is correct about one thing, we keep rehashing the same assumptions and what little case information we have. We cannot and may never get the answers from the Sterns County Sheriff. This case is still active on their books many years after similar cases nationwide were dumped in with the cold case files. There is much more going on than what we are seeing.

It may take someone with a specific skill set and boots on the ground to solve this.

Someone is hiding something.

I have done a lot of thinking on this question. Clandestine military service & preparation? Seems unlikely, given the number of options that would not require forcible abduction. I don't think he was bilingual, etc.

The deceased son & Stockholm syndrome scenario I don't think can be ruled. I would guess rural Canada.

Faking the death of your son?

 

[Trackergd]

Someone meaning someone who knows the abductor or someone from Stearns Co?

Either or both.

With the advances in DNA, after this amount of time, one would wonder why the trunk and other items have not been fully tested so as to implicate or clear DR? Could it be that the evidence was improperly handled, lost, or the chain of custody broken rendering it unusable for prosecution?

With the number of years that have passed, it begs the question as to why the Sheriffs department is holding it's cards close to the vest and not welcoming any help to solve this case. Did the FBI ever come out and say what they felt occurred? After 25 years, the silence with an occasional request for information gives less than an genuine appearance of attempting to solve this case.

What about Minnesota Freedom of Information Act? Well, according to: http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Minnesota_Data_Practices_Act "A 2002 study, Freedom of Information in the USA, conducted by IRE and BGA, ranked Minnesota's law as the 40th worst in the country, giving it a letter grade of "D."

If you keep a case open on the books forever, is it exempt from the Minnesota Freedom of Information Act?

 

[ThePhantom]

Good points, Trackergd. I am assuming someone has tried to get access to details about the case via FOI, but I'm sure the sheriff would invoke the "it's an active case so we're not releasing anything."

My reading of Mossad's post is that there was critical info connected to the case, including a suspect, very early in the investigation, but that the suspect didn't cooperate and basically was off the hook. The only way to pursue and obtain the truth now is through an independent investigation. Yes, the Wetterlings did hire an investigator --did that person face the same roadblock that the sheriff did early on --i.e. suspect managed to get off and stay off the hook? How does one find evidence after twenty five years? Even more concerning --if LE did have a suspect early on that they had to let go for lack of evidence -- but the suspect was the most promising --why did they refrain from pursuing the truth? Why did they just drop it entirely? Re-read Mossad's post -- suspect may be of German descent -- I could be wrong but I think Mossad may be referring to a relative of the suspect who has had suspicions all along. This person lives in rural Stearns and may feel guilt at not having investigated further himself and/or come forward with info.

Mossad please feel free to tell me I'm totally wrong in my interpretation.

I'm surmising that Mossad is speaking descriptively without concrete detail because he doesn't want his post yanked.

Many people in that area have German ancestry but one of the early suspects clearly does. I feel frustrated too because our discussion can only focus on identified POI's and not on previously identified suspects.

This post is meant for possible insights into Mossad's post and I freely admit I may be misunderstanding its content. However, I strongly believe after reviewing additional information that Jacob and Jared's perpetrator is an earlier suspect and he was responsible for both. That and a dollar will get me coffee at McDonalds. Money would be needed to hire a top notch investigator with no conflict of interest whatsoever, no connections or ties to people/organizations/businesses in that area, who would objectively pursue the evidence without fear of reprisal. I'm beginning to think this particular area is one of the most incestuous in terms of people covering for each other -- referring to people in positions of authority and even some of the townsfolk. So many secrets but they're covered up or denied altogether so that life can go on. The problem is, the victims are left to suffer.

Just my two cents.

 

[Trino]

Good points, Trackergd. I am assuming someone has tried to get access to details about the case via FOI, but I'm sure the sheriff would invoke the "it's an active case so we're not releasing anything."

My reading of Mossad's post is that there was critical info connected to the case, including a suspect, very early in the investigation, but that the suspect didn't cooperate and basically was off the hook. The only way to pursue and obtain the truth now is through an independent investigation. Yes, the Wetterlings did hire an investigator --did that person face the same roadblock that the sheriff did early on --i.e. suspect managed to get off and stay off the hook? How does one find evidence after twenty five years? Even more concerning --if LE did have a suspect early on that they had to let go for lack of evidence -- but the suspect was the most promising --why did they refrain from pursuing the truth? Why did they just drop it entirely? Re-read Mossad's post -- suspect may be of German descent -- I could be wrong but I think Mossad may be referring to a relative of the suspect who has had suspicions all along. This person lives in rural Stearns and may feel guilt at not having investigated further himself and/or come forward with info.

Mossad please feel free to tell me I'm totally wrong in my interpretation.

I'm surmising that Mossad is speaking descriptively without concrete detail because he doesn't want his post yanked.

Many people in that area have German ancestry but one of the early suspects clearly does. I feel frustrated too because our discussion can only focus on identified POI's and not on previously identified suspects.

This post is meant for possible insights into Mossad's post and I freely admit I may be misunderstanding its content. However, I strongly believe after reviewing additional information that Jacob and Jared's perpetrator is an earlier suspect and he was responsible for both. That and a dollar will get me coffee at McDonalds. Money would be needed to hire a top notch investigator with no conflict of interest whatsoever, no connections or ties to people/organizations/businesses in that area, who would objectively pursue the evidence without fear of reprisal. I'm beginning to think this particular area is one of the most incestuous in terms of people covering for each other -- referring to people in positions of authority and even some of the townsfolk. So many secrets but they're covered up or denied altogether so that life can go on. The problem is, the victims are left to suffer.

Just my two cents.

Interesting, especially the last paragraph because Stearns Co was once considered to be a very closed community area. I don't think that's so true today, however, because newer families have moved in.

As to a detective, if one were to take on the case, I'm guessing Stearns Co LE would not be cooperative in the least. Just guessing... I believe the Wetterlings previously hired a detective only to investigate the international claim so Stearns Co wasn't involoved. I do wonder why - and not to be critical - the Wetterlings have not hired a private detective to investigate the crime itself since LE has not been effective in solving the case. Personally, I would have no faith in either Stearns Co or the FBI of that era solving the case, and not much has changed with the current investigators.

 

[human]

Drop the idea of kids you teach. The point definitely WAS why ask. It is VERY possible there were other reasons to ask, reasons that had nothing to do with perversion. My post had no such thoughts. Think outside the box. I simply asked why take the time to ask questions. To me this has always been a key, something overlooked in favor of other possibilities.

If I were to abduct one person out of three possibilities, which, in itself is strange, I would want to get the H out of the area and would grab and go, especially since the boys were close in age. I would not bother to ask who was the oldest. You can go back to WS 1989 and find my posts where I thought DR was involved (no more). I've been following that long, and the strange idea of this questioning has never left me.[/QUOTE

Trying to degrade me does not work, so please stop it.

Why exactly do you feel that he asked the questions then?

A pervert is interested in certain attributes. Are you saying you know why a pervert would ask ages, especially when two of the boys are the same age?

 

[human]

If you read about the friends the Wetterlings have and the contacts they have, they have resources. Patty is also with the Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

My guess is that they know who did it, but getting evidence is the problem.

I feel PI's are in books, not real life.

The Congdon murder, which was one of Minnesota's most famous murders involved a family of great means. They were lawyers , bankers, and other prominent types of positions. They hired a PI only to be totally scammed by him.

Virginia Piper was the most famous kidnapping in MN before Jacob. Super rich family. It is highly likely the perps are known, but they were never convicted.

The Sheriff said they were waiting for advances in science for the items they kept.

In 1989, DNA for criminal cases was totally new, I have posted the links to the info about that earlier.

 

[human]

Congdon murder

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisabeth_Congdon

 

[human]

Virginia Piper case was bigger than I knew.

http://www.minnpost.com/books/2014/10/virginia-piper-kidnapping-gets-new-look-stolen-garden

 

[Trino]

Drop the idea of kids you teach. The point definitely WAS why ask. It is VERY possible there were other reasons to ask, reasons that had nothing to do with perversion. My post had no such thoughts. Think outside the box. I simply asked why take the time to ask questions. To me this has always been a key, something overlooked in favor of other possibilities.

If I were to abduct one person out of three possibilities, which, in itself is strange, I would want to get the H out of the area and would grab and go, especially since the boys were close in age. I would not bother to ask who was the oldest. You can go back to WS 1989 and find my posts where I thought DR was involved (no more). I've been following that long, and the strange idea of this questioning has never left me.[/QUOTE

Trying to degrade me does not work, so please stop it.

Why exactly do you feel that he asked the questions then?

A pervert is interested in certain attributes. Are you saying you know why a pervert would ask ages, especially when two of the boys are the same age?

I'm saying drop the entire idea of sex. This may have had nothing to do with the abduction. Although LE now says it was a sexual abduction, that does not necessarily mean it was so. Obviously, LE has been wrong thus far, and LE knows other theories. Of that I am certain.

 

[human]

I'm saying drop the entire idea of sex. This may have had nothing to do with the abduction. Although LE now says it was a sexual abduction, that does not necessarily mean it was so. Obviously, LE has been wrong thus far, and LE knows other theories. Of that I am certain.

Google is your friend. Hate to be obtuse.

But, I am not sure why you feel you can command me or any other poster? Strange.

 

[chaplain1]

I'm saying drop the entire idea of sex. This may have had nothing to do with the abduction. Although LE now says it was a sexual abduction, that does not necessarily mean it was so. Obviously, LE has been wrong thus far, and LE knows other theories. Of that I am certain.

Good points, Trackergd. I am assuming someone has tried to get access to details about the case via FOI, but I'm sure the sheriff would invoke the "it's an active case so we're not releasing anything."

My reading of Mossad's post is that there was critical info connected to the case, including a suspect, very early in the investigation, but that the suspect didn't cooperate and basically was off the hook. The only way to pursue and obtain the truth now is through an independent investigation. Yes, the Wetterlings did hire an investigator --did that person face the same roadblock that the sheriff did early on --i.e. suspect managed to get off and stay off the hook? How does one find evidence after twenty five years? Even more concerning --if LE did have a suspect early on that they had to let go for lack of evidence -- but the suspect was the most promising --why did they refrain from pursuing the truth? Why did they just drop it entirely? Re-read Mossad's post -- suspect may be of German descent -- I could be wrong but I think Mossad may be referring to a relative of the suspect who has had suspicions all along. This person lives in rural Stearns and may feel guilt at not having investigated further himself and/or come forward with info.

Mossad please feel free to tell me I'm totally wrong in my interpretation.

I'm surmising that Mossad is speaking descriptively without concrete detail because he doesn't want his post yanked.

Many people in that area have German ancestry but one of the early suspects clearly does. I feel frustrated too because our discussion can only focus on identified POI's and not on previously identified suspects.

This post is meant for possible insights into Mossad's post and I freely admit I may be misunderstanding its content. However, I strongly believe after reviewing additional information that Jacob and Jared's perpetrator is an earlier suspect and he was responsible for both. That and a dollar will get me coffee at McDonalds. Money would be needed to hire a top notch investigator with no conflict of interest whatsoever, no connections or ties to people/organizations/businesses in that area, who would objectively pursue the evidence without fear of reprisal. I'm beginning to think this particular area is one of the most incestuous in terms of people covering for each other -- referring to people in positions of authority and even some of the townsfolk. So many secrets but they're covered up or denied altogether so that life can go on. The problem is, the victims are left to suffer.

Just my two cents.

Respect the Phantom greatly, but my read on his post was as a solicitation for us to pay him to investigate.

 

[shergal]

THIS POST WAS MADE BY CHAPLAIN and I am commenting on it:
Respect the Phantom greatly, but my read on his post was as a solicitation for us to pay him to investigate.

MY RESPONSE:
I didn't get that impression at all. I think he is just saying someone not connected to the case - and not connected to Stearns LE should investigate.

 

[Dave K]

In Human's post 947, you'll see that the Quote system didn't work as normal, because, note the closing "Quote" is missing the right-hand bracket. Here's a copy/paste of it - [/QUOTE

Following that, several posts, stemming from that post, quoting each other, have the quote system (for those particular posts) out of whack and making it look like the quotes, being quoted, belong to the wrong person.

Anyone wanting to follow the dialogue there, should read the several relevant posts to see what quotes belong to who, because, several are misidentified.

 

[shergal]

I'm saying drop the entire idea of sex. This may have had nothing to do with the abduction. Although LE now says it was a sexual abduction, that does not necessarily mean it was so. Obviously, LE has been wrong thus far, and LE knows other theories. Of that I am certain.

There are various sites online that link to the fact that it was sexually motivated. I'm not sure I can link them here though. But please, just take Patty Wetterling's word for it...

"This is a sexually motivated crime. Sometimes, you need to say that," Patty said. "So, it's not like we're in la-la land."
http://www.sctimes.com/story/news/local/2014/10/18/wetterlings-still-coping-heartbreak/17529251/

 

[ELOCsoul]

I'm saying drop the entire idea of sex. This may have had nothing to do with the abduction. Although LE now says it was a sexual abduction, that does not necessarily mean it was so. Obviously, LE has been wrong thus far, and LE knows other theories. Of that I am certain.

Actually, investigators very quickly determined the abductors motive was sexual, and have said so many times from the beginning. An unspecified action by the abductor(s) was referred to as a "sure" link between Jacob's and Jareds cases. The only recent development was that Patty publicly acknowledged such.

 

[HEY YOU!]

If I pulled a black stocking over my head and perhaps had removed my glasses beforehand, I may have to ask the ages of those boys as I probably couldn't see very well at that point.

 

[Trino]

There are various sites online that link to the fact that it was sexually motivated. I'm not sure I can link them here though. But please, just take Patty Wetterling's word for it...

"This is a sexually motivated crime. Sometimes, you need to say that," Patty said. "So, it's not like we're in la-la land."
http://www.sctimes.com/story/news/local/2014/10/18/wetterlings-still-coping-heartbreak/17529251/

Patty Wetterling offered an opinion, an assumption, an educated guess, but there is no absolute proof as to the reason JW was abducted.

 

[HEY YOU!]

Patty Wetterling offered an opinion, an assumption, an educated guess, but there is no absolute proof as to the reason JW was abducted.

It's my understanding that she had reason to believe it was sexually motivated after speaking with her son Trevor following Jacob's abduction. She would have to have a solid reason for actually stating that as fact.