MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #13

[human]

Quote below by Trino

"I'm saying drop the entire idea of sex. This may have had nothing to do with the abduction. Although LE now says it was a sexual abduction, that does not necessarily mean it was so. Obviously, LE has been wrong thus far, and LE knows other theories. Of that I am certain.[/QUOTE]

questions by me, Human, below
I cannot find the information that you gave where you stated that you have been on this from the beginning. It was on here somewhere.

In your early info, you stated you were male and a teacher.

You also said you were a runner from the area.

Do you know DR from teaching and/or running?

I am admitting I did not read all of the posts so I do not know if you talked about that earlier?

What are some of these other theories you know that LE has?

 

[nmogren]

I cannot fix my quote problem. Too many hours have gone by. I have little internet access.

Anyway, if anyone has not seen this article by Joy, it is fabulous.

Real research with real facts.

Kudos to Joy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Facts are good. This is actual good work finally. She is getting better access to things that will really help!


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[Trino]

Quote below by Trino

"I'm saying drop the entire idea of sex. This may have had nothing to do with the abduction. Although LE now says it was a sexual abduction, that does not necessarily mean it was so. Obviously, LE has been wrong thus far, and LE knows other theories. Of that I am certain.

questions by me, Human, below
I cannot find the information that you gave where you stated that you have been on this from the beginning. It was on here somewhere.

In your early info, you stated you were male and a teacher.

You also said you were a runner from the area.

Do you know DR from teaching and/or running?

I am admitting I did not read all of the posts so I do not know if you talked about that earlier?

What are some of these other theories you know that LE has?[/QUOTE]

Wow. Where did you get that info about me?

 

[Trino]

I want to vomit and scream.

My relative is one of the people who is being sued, although the State is the one who is the defendant, not the individuals being sued.

My relative quit the job because it was too sickening. Listening to why it was ok to rape babies.

These people are monsters.

I don't care if other states have learned to handle the problem. BS.

Other states have issue upon issue.

It is a money issue, not a safety issue.

The problem that is faced with giving these monsters longer sentences is that it is felt then that they may kill the victims rather than releasing them.

This civil commitment is a good solution,

These monsters have a nice place to live.

When they get out, if they can find a place to live, it is the worst of the worst.

Finding a job is just about impossible. Who wants to frequent a business that hires a psychopath?

I am enraged that I am paying through my tax dollars to defend their lawsuit.

They don't like their cushy life in Moose Lake?

Then fry them!

Their crimes are despicable.

DAH did not have a chance in life. But he cannot live free among us.

I agree with your assessment about the horrible persons who are incarcerated. The problem is it becomes a Constitutional issue when a state attempts to put someone away for life. My prediction is that it will be decided in federal court.

 

[Trino]

Human, I'm having difficulty with quoting your post, so I'll just answer. I don't recall saying I was male. I have never been a runner. I have no knowledge of DR.

I know the area, yes. I cycle a lot, even before the current trails. I do not know a single person in St. Joe's.

At the time of the abduction my sons were near the same age. I knew an official involved in the investigation and will say nothing about this. However, those two reasons are, most likely, why I have followed the case for so long.

My thoughts now are:
1. I do not believe DR is involved. I won't "go there" because there have already been many, many discussions.
2. The case mildly disappeared from everyone's radar until the 2010 DR investigation. In 2010, I think a couple of investigators thought they could blow the case wide open, only to leave with egg on their faces. I think the items been kept for further analysis are to save face.
3. Stearns Co LE has no idea where to go from here, but neither does anyone else. It's an open case, albeit on the back burner. There will probably never be info released, and maybe this is correct. We are not in a legal position to demand that of LE.
4. Are cases related? I am not certain nor is anyone else.
5. Is St. John's related? Despite the Pine Curtain, I have doubts. Such a horrible group of God's men, but this case doesn't sound like the mode of operation of anyone at the Abbey.
6. Tracker has done an awesome job of explaining the "area of mass destruction." While nothing more was learned about J's disappearance, we came away with more knowledge.
7. Was there a car? I believe there was - somewhere - but not in the drive. I think J was walked to a vehicle.
8. What about Kevin and his youthful fling into the drive? We need to know more.
9. Was this a sexual abduction? I am not convinced. Don't ask.
10. With 100% accuracy, we do not know WHERE J was taken, HOW J was taken, or WHY J was taken. We can only guess. Where is he? Stearns Co? MN? The US? Canada? Elsewhere?
11. The Wetterlings are candidates for sainthood, especially PW who birthed, then lost this child. While it may have made no difference, I would still be screaming in the faces of LE. God bless the family.

 

[ELOCsoul]

For those, who've wanted to see better pictures of DAH. They've just become available. Along with more information about the individual.

http://www.joybaker.com/2014/12/27/an-early-suspect/

Thanks for posting this. I cannot provide a link, but Hart has claimed he was at Mud Lake, along with one of his juvenile victims, when Jacob was abducted on the night of October 22, 1989. I wonder if his alibi was checked out and confirmed by LE?

 

[HEY YOU!]

DAH was ruled out early on by law enforcement. We can see that just by his height of 5' 5'' he is at least 5 inches shorter than the boys estimated the perp was by comparing his height to neighbor Merle. If the perp were that short, they would have stated height closer to Patty. Also, the MO DAH used was grooming and repeatingly molesting his victims. He knew them, they knew him, and he saw and abused them often. He did not use a mask or sneak up on anyone. He did not abduct anyone off the street, he molested boys he knew in familiar areas. Different MO for both Jared and Jacob.

 

[HEY YOU!]

There is a large facility in this area that has basically been harboring pedophiles for God only knows how long, it is to be expected that there would be a large number of victims. Those perps are still allowed among the general public. Many of those victims will in turn become pedophiles themselves thus making that particular area have a much higher population of perps than many other locations. It is my opinion that is what happened to DR as a little boy. I believe he was left alone with a trusted priest and was taken advantage of which altered his personality and idea of intimacy. I believe that he had seen the neighborhood boys travel by his home many times during the day and fantasized about what he would do if he ever got on of them alone. That very first night the boys were allowed out after dark and his parents were not home, he took his fantasy and made it a reality in my opinion.

 

[ELOCsoul]

DAH was ruled out early on by law enforcement. We can see that just by his height of 5' 5'' he is at least 5 inches shorter than the boys estimated the perp was by comparing his height to neighbor Merle. If the perp were that short, they would have stated height closer to Patty. Also, the MO DAH used was grooming and repeatingly molesting his victims. He knew them, they knew him, and he saw and abused them often. He did not use a mask or sneak up on anyone. He did not abduct anyone off the street, he molested boys he knew in familiar areas. Different MO for both Jared and Jacob.

A couple of observations from my perspective...

I don't think Hart was ever ruled out, the strongest language I've seen is he was brushed aside, due to the reasons you suggested.

Maybe his MO changed after his stints in prison, or maybe he was having trouble grooming with his old methods due to aging issues, or after affects from exposure to agent Orange in Vietnam.

 

[shergal]

A couple of observations from my perspective...

I don't think Hart was ever ruled out, the strongest language I've seen is he was brushed aside, due to the reasons you suggested.

Maybe his MO changed after his stints in prison, or maybe he was having trouble grooming with his old methods due to aging issues, or exposure to agent Orange in Vietnam.

We don't know for sure that he was exposed to agent orange in Vietnam, do we? If he was born in 1947, he would be 67 now. Just from personal experience of having known friends who were exposed to agent orange in Vietnam, the age group most affected seems to be guys that are around 60 now. I've had 3 friends who went to Vietnam die of cancer from exposure to agent orange (according to their doctors - they also all smoked - so who knows?) but they were all 58 to 61. I'm no history buff at all, but wasn't agent orange used later in Vietnam? Maybe some war buffs or vets who were there would know this? Not that it really matters, but we haven't heard that Hart is sick or has cancer at all. In fact, I'm kind of amazed he never died of AIDS considering all the prisons and victims he went through.

To me, just his height alone rules him out for Jacob. I agree with Hey You!, Trevor would have never compared the abductor's height to Merle - who was 5'10" if the abductor had been only 5'5". Trevor was probably terrified, but he had just been standing on a road near the abductor before standing by Merle at the phone.

 

[nmogren]

To me, Hart looks to be about 5' 7" am I reading the picture right?


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[Sasquatch321]

To me, Hart looks to be about 5' 7" am I reading the picture right?


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A hair under 5' 6"

 

[Trackergd]

We don't know for sure that he was exposed to agent orange in Vietnam, do we? If he was born in 1947, he would be 67 now. Just from personal experience of having known friends who were exposed to agent orange in Vietnam, the age group most affected seems to be guys that are around 60 now. I've had 3 friends who went to Vietnam die of cancer from exposure to agent orange (according to their doctors - they also all smoked - so who knows?) but they were all 58 to 61. I'm no history buff at all, but wasn't agent orange used later in Vietnam? Maybe some war buffs or vets who were there would know this? Not that it really matters, but we haven't heard that Hart is sick or has cancer at all. In fact, I'm kind of amazed he never died of AIDS considering all the prisons and victims he went through.

To me, just his height alone rules him out for Jacob. I agree with Hey You!, Trevor would have never compared the abductor's height to Merle - who was 5'10" if the abductor had been only 5'5". Trevor was probably terrified, but he had just been standing on a road near the abductor before standing by Merle at the phone.

RBBM

Agent Orange was used during the Vietnam War from 1961 to 1971

Source: Wikipedia

 

[ELOCsoul]

We've also got a height reference now putting him at 5' 5" without the hair. I think that nearly or completely discounts him from the Wetterling.

I can get over the height issue because it was one man, acting in an authoritative manner. The boys could have perceived him to be taller than he really was.

What I cannot get past, is putting Hart on a dead end road in St Joseph, an hour away from the area where he had groomed multiple boys. It's unlikely that the perpetrator just happened to come across this place, IMO.

 

[thenotebook]

The height pretty much rules him out for me. Also the mug shot compared to Jared's sketch...I don't see much similarity. DAH's nose looks crooked and is very noticeable. How in the world did Joy manage to get this mug shot?!? Fabulous find. Kuddos to Joy.

I think the answer lies with someone LE spoke to early on in the investigation. I think they need to go back to all the early suspects and reconsider them.

Also one thing Joy did not address - what does Jared think of the mug shot now?

 

[human]

questions by me, Human, below
I cannot find the information that you gave where you stated that you have been on this from the beginning. It was on here somewhere.

In your early info, you stated you were male and a teacher.

You also said you were a runner from the area.

Do you know DR from teaching and/or running?

I am admitting I did not read all of the posts so I do not know if you talked about that earlier?

What are some of these other theories you know that LE has?

Wow. Where did you get that info about me?[/QUOTE]

You stated in a post a few posts ago that you were in on this from the beginning and suspected DR. So I read many of your early posts from years ago.

The info is there. But I do not have much internet access so I did not read that much as there is a lot of info you have on here.

 

[human]

I agree with your assessment about the horrible persons who are incarcerated. The problem is it becomes a Constitutional issue when a state attempts to put someone away for life. My prediction is that it will be decided in federal court.

Then fry em. Although we don't have that option in MN.

So give them a life sentence.

Not the beautiful place in Moose Lake.

Let them be underground in Oak Park MN.

 

[ThePhantom]

The height pretty much rules him out for me. Also the mug shot compared to Jared's sketch...I don't see much similarity. DAH's nose looks crooked and is very noticeable. How in the world did Joy manage to get this mug shot?!? Fabulous find. Kuddos to Joy.

I think the answer lies with someone LE spoke to early on in the investigation. I think they need to go back to all the early suspects and reconsider them.

Also one thing Joy did not address - what does Jared think of the mug shot now?

-----------------------------------------------
I'm in agreement with you. Here is what is frustrating - Jared is not allowed to see some of the early suspects, which is utterly exasperating to me. For that matter, some of the sleuthers here are unaware of some of the early suspects, one of which I have a terrible feeling may be responsible. Though I would truly like to believe that LE did due diligence on all of these earlier suspects, I do not. And I have to wonder how knowledgable Joy is on this matter? I do not think she is. What a tangled state of affairs to know someone who in all likelihood should have been further pursued was not. This (I *think*) may be at the root of mossad's cryptic messages. I came late to the party on this, because I was concerned particular monks were behind it. While I still believe a monk may have been behind guimond's disappearance, I'm now of a different mind about Jacob and possibly Jared too. Since my thoughts with regard to an earlier suspect cannot be discussed here, I'm left to trying to de-crypt Mossad's posts while putting various pieces of data on the Internet together. Blah. Thank you for listening to my sad tale of woe.

 

[chaplain1]

ELOC--

Do you discuss the early suspects in your book, like the one phantom is talking about?

 

[ThePhantom]

I sincerely hope he does - I am counting on it. When will I be able to purchase this book?