MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #17

[Trackergd]

And because once they heard from Kevin, they "assumed" that these were the unidentified tire prints and that they had covered all the bases.

Smoke and mirrors...

 

[human]

It is "possible" for someone to plant one or more prints. What is lacking in a "planted" print is the many pressure releases that are present in an actual foot print. It is not easy to plant a fake print that passes the test of a tracker or trained forensics investigator familiar with prints. It is not something I can see very well in photographs that are still shots from a video. I would be able to tell from the police photographs and from the plaster casts, however the Sheriff declined to share. If I can only go from what I see in the photographs and video available; The crime scene was not properly secured, was contaminated by one or more individuals, at least two members of LE walked in the print field, not enough plaster casts were taken, possible additional crime scene was not evaluated (surrounding grass etc) for additional prints. I am also not so sure that Sterns County had the knowledge to clearly identify all the tire prints in the field and am 90% sure they did not know anything about "reading" footprints. They also dismissed a car being involved way too quickly. The entire investigation stinks. I am not sure if it is lack of technical knowledge or something else. The telling part for me is that they refuse to allow technical professionals to review the evidence. Sooner or later the truth will leak out. From what I can see in the pictures, a car was involved. I base that on a view that shows an indirect register in one of the tire prints, and it appears to be the same tire prints that are in front of Jacobs last print. I have nothing to prove one way or the other if DR knew or was involved.

They dismissed the car 14 years later when Kevin came forward in 2003. Is that too quickly?

We have no idea when those photos of the crime scene were taken, do we? Were they photo ops for the media? Does media get to go onto a crime scene before LE is done with it?

 

[human]

Why? Because they identified an individual as a POI as a "place holder" so they can sit on their hands forever claiming it's an ongoing investigation and that they are waiting for technology to advance. If they changed gears and pointed in another direction, DR, depending on the laws in that state may be able to file a defamation of character charge since by inactivity, they let the public in general assume that for all these years DR is guilty of "something". Again, depending on the laws of that state, he may be able to file charges against individual members of LE.

An outsider could be excused for assuming that LE is circling the wagons based on what we see, what is not being said, what is not being shared and an apparant general disregard for the welfare of the character of their POI.

I have not seen anything to convince me that the FBI did anything more than consult with LE, provide some resources and communicate with the media. SCSD maintained control of the case and did not turn it over to the FBI. On the two missing person cases I was involved in with the FBI, this was the same scenario. If this is not an active case with the FBI, I wonder if they would share what they have under the freedom of information act? Something for one of you to chase...

Kevin came forward in 2003. DR was named POI in 2010.

If LE wants a place holder, they have lots of other good choices.

In ELOC's book there is a lot of discussion about Al Graber and Brian Gigler, two FBI agents that seemed to be very central to the case. There were also many more agents. I forget how many now.

 

[Trackergd]

They dismissed the car 14 years later when Kevin came forward in 2003. Is that too quickly?

We have no idea when those photos of the crime scene were taken, do we? Were they photo ops for the media? Does media get to go onto a crime scene before LE is done with it?

Still too quickly, once Kevin came forward, they dismissed the car theory.

Photos were taken the next day, otherwise we would see all the ATV and horse prints all over the place.

Might as well have let the media onto the crime scene, everyone else was tramping all over it....

 

[human]

Still too quickly, once Kevin came forward, they dismissed the car theory.

Photos were taken the next day, otherwise we would see all the ATV and horse prints all over the place.

Might as well have let the media onto the crime scene, everyone else was tramping all over it....

Horses came on Saturday.

 

[kemo]

I have been following this case and in spite of the snippets of legitimate information there are a lot of rumors floating about and speculation ad nauseam. We really have no idea what hard evidence, if any, there is.

The fact the the night of the abduction, a great deal of interest was directed at the lower 50 yards or so of DR's driveway, but no one knocked on DR's door to ask him what, if anything he saw or heard, suggests to me that they were close to certain that Jacob was taken away by a vehicle that either backed down the driveway or turned around near the bottom (perhaps near the woodpile). We don't know why they came to that conclusion. Perhaps it was just jumping to a conclusion. I suspect there was very little attention paid to protecting the crime scene.

Assuming DR is telling the truth, I don't see how he could be faulted for not telling the officers he spoke to at the bottom of the driveway about the cars he saw. He had absolutely no idea what happened, what witnesses saw or what the police were looking for. He was treated as just another lookylou and told to get out of their way.

Standard Operating procedure would have been to knock on every door and ask if the owner had seen or heard anything but it would also establish who was home and identify if anyone acted suspicious. Asking if they could have "a look around" would be possible. The homeowner would certainly have a right to refuse but in a small town, I'm betting most would let them. It is interesting, if true, that they did knock on some other doors in the neighborhood.

We don't know why the investigation was re-directed towards DR once Kevin came forward. Perhaps Kevin just prompted an entirely different look at the case.

 

[Trackergd]

Horses came on Saturday.

We are splitting hairs. Contaminated crime scene, the only thing that occurred on Saturday was that what ever evidence was left was obliterated by the ATV's and horses, including any that may have been in the grass.

 

[777]

...Assuming DR is telling the truth, I don't see how he could be faulted for not telling the officers he spoke to at the bottom of the driveway about the cars he saw. .. .

I don't understand why so many castigate DR for not telling the cops about the cars he saw until the next day. The cops never asked to talk with him from what I can tell - until the next day. His version of events - that he had already gone to bed and wakes up to a big commotion on his property seems believable to me. I am not trying to be biased for or against any potential suspect but if it happened to me I would probably be in disarray and may not remember to volunteer extra information to people who didn't seem interested in talking with me, until I had time to think about everything more clearly.

And because once they heard from Kevin, they "assumed" that these were the unidentified tire prints and that they had covered all the bases.

Smoke and mirrors...

How much value do you give in the scent evidence from the dogs, at least insofar as that evidence has been made public?
Is there a reasonably easy way for the dogs to lose an established scent in the driveway other than putting Jacob on a mode of transportation of some type?




777

 

[Sasquatch321]

The crime scene may have been contaminated some, but it had to be. What was most important appears to be caught. The footprint, a driveways worth of tire tread. And we simply are going off a few pictures. We dont know what LE's print experts know.

 

[human]

I have been following this case and in spite of the snippets of legitimate information there are a lot of rumors floating about and speculation ad nauseam. We really have no idea what hard evidence, if any, there is.

The fact the the night of the abduction, a great deal of interest was directed at the lower 50 yards or so of DR's driveway, but no one knocked on DR's door to ask him what, if anything he saw or heard, suggests to me that they were close to certain that Jacob was taken away by a vehicle that either backed down the driveway or turned around near the bottom (perhaps near the woodpile). We don't know why they came to that conclusion. Perhaps it was just jumping to a conclusion. I suspect there was very little attention paid to protecting the crime scene.

Assuming DR is telling the truth, I don't see how he could be faulted for not telling the officers he spoke to at the bottom of the driveway about the cars he saw. He had absolutely no idea what happened, what witnesses saw or what the police were looking for. He was treated as just another lookylou and told to get out of their way.

Standard Operating procedure would have been to knock on every door and ask if the owner had seen or heard anything but it would also establish who was home and identify if anyone acted suspicious. Asking if they could have "a look around" would be possible. The homeowner would certainly have a right to refuse but in a small town, I'm betting most would let them. It is interesting, if true, that they did knock on some other doors in the neighborhood.

We don't know why the investigation was re-directed towards DR once Kevin came forward. Perhaps Kevin just prompted an entirely different look at the case.

Which version are you going with? He went to bed or he stayed up and searched the outbuildings?

 

[human]

We are splitting hairs. Contaminated crime scene, the only thing that occurred on Saturday was that what ever evidence was left was obliterated by the ATV's and horses, including any that may have been in the grass.

Sunday to Saturday -- that is a lot of days.

 

[human]

I don't understand why so many castigate DR for not telling the cops about the cars he saw until the next day. The cops never asked to talk with him from what I can tell - until the next day. His version of events - that he had already gone to bed and wakes up to a big commotion on his property seems believable to me. I am not trying to be biased for or against any potential suspect but if it happened to me I would probably be in disarray and may not remember to volunteer extra information to people who didn't seem interested in talking with me, until I had time to think about everything more clearly.


Which version re
How much value do you give in the scent evidence from the dogs, at least insofar as that evidence has been made public?
Is there a reasonably easy way for the dogs to lose an established scent in the driveway other than putting Jacob on a mode of transportation of some type?




777

Which version are you going with? He went to bed or he stayed up and searched out buildings?

Dogs- did not find her scent even though they were in the perp's yard- Somer Thomoson.
Just a couple of weeks ago. Madiyson Middleton in Santa Cruz. Dogs traced her scent to a river, I think.

She never left the aortment building and was in a dumpster in the apartment buidling where she lived.

 

[777]

Which version are you going with? He went to bed or he stayed up and searched out buildings?
.

I'm going with the only version he's ever told as far as I can tell. He went to bed as normal. The dog went berserk and he awoke to people looking around his property. He went to investigate and was told there was a kidnapping. He looked around the outbuildings. Later he went to bed.

There's been plenty of media-filtered versions of what happened that night, but as for direct quotes from DR he has only stated one version from what I've seen. Do you have another version?



777

 

[human]

Yes. There is the one where he said, " Why bother". I think it was to either Julie Nelson or Trish von Pilsum or Justin Manley?

I am surprised you did notbrun across it when reading all the threads this week because it has been discussed several times.

 

[Trino]

Yes. There is the one where he said, " Why bother". I think it was to either Julie Nelson or Trish von Pilsum or Justin Manley?

I am surprised you did notbrun across it when reading all the threads this week because it has been discussed several times.

Please verify this. I don't think he actually said, "Why bother."

 

[human]

It has been on here many many times. I feel like asking for all of these links of things that have been discussed on here numerous times is something I am not going to respond to because even if I put links, it appears no one cares to read them. It is only disingenuous.

 

[chaplain1]

From his behavior, DR appears to be on the spectrum. At best, he just doesn't seem to have any empathy when he discusses the case.

There is plenty of room to defend DR. However, I would not defend his comments to the media.

 

[StinkSprings]

First, let's address the days the horses arrived. It was Thursday, not Saturday. Your misinformation is EXACTLY why you need to site your sources. Spreading the word that horses arrived on Saturday is categorically wrong. When you start saying something like the "Horses arrived Saturday" when in fact, its been posted on here that they arrived on Thursday is bad sleuthing, not fair to the other users and not fair to Jacob Wetterling. Links are ment to verify statements.

With that, here is a newspaper clipping from FRIDAY, October 27th, 1989. It clearly notes the horses were there the day before, on October 26th, 1989....a THURSDAY.

Sunday to Saturday -- that is a lot of days.

 

[Caoutchouc]

Cop out?

Finally. So happy to see people fighting for facts and respectable debate. Does it take work to cite sources? Yes. Will it take (more) work to find out what happened to Jacob Wetterling? Absolutely.
Let's do this.

 

[dreddlock]

It has been on here many many times. I feel like asking for all of these links of things that have been discussed on here numerous times is something I am not going to respond to because even if I put links, it appears no one cares to read them. It is only disingenuous.

Hi everybody, I am new to WB as a member and to this forum. I did know of Jacobs story but not in depth, at all. As a guest I have been reading WS for several years. DR did say that in a TvP interview...Investigators questioned him as recently as two weeks ago, February 7th [2004]. They took a sample of his DNA. Five days later they questioned his family and searched his computer files at home.The Man: “I just have to hope they make sense out of it and not wreck my life.”Remember he is the witness who placed a car at the scene. Later that night he heard a commotion. It was the search and it was in his yard. He went back to bed.Trish Van Pilsum: “Why would you go to bed when a kid had just disappeared?”The Man: “I wanted to get some sleep. I wasn’t going to waste my time.”The man FOX 9 talked with may never be connected with the Jacob Wetterling kidnapping case. But I also recall him dismissing TvP quotes. If i can find I will repost.Finally, I want to thank those of you who have written, especially about facts, in this forum. It is fascinating, captivating and awful at the same time. Hope the W's family get answers and soon. I have followed the Lyon Sisters case for going on a decade and its finally begun to break, its been excruciatingly slow but I have a sense that this case could be soon. I hope for the W's. Thanks for reading.