MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #6

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shergal, I wish they would have stated why each person was eliminated. And the dogs tracking the scent up the driveway 100 yards and then losing it (in addition to the smaller footprints stopping) leads me to believe some sort of vehicle was used. I never understood why all of a sudden LE said a vehicle wasn't used.

I agree, I never have understood why they were so quick to eliminate a vehicle.

I'd like to know if the tracks were straight up the middle of the driveway, or did they at least go in a straight line and then vanish....or did they veer off towards the edge and then into the grass??

It just seems logical to use a vehicle, unless you were going straight to DR's farm. If the perp took him info the grass/field area and walked a ways, you'd think there would have been some sort of evidence found (flatten vegetation, clothing snagged, etc)
 
Some posters on this site seem to believe that there must be some very significant evidence against DR, otherwise they would not have investigated him so thoroughly. It has been suggested that this "evidence" might include proof that no "mystery" vehicle went up that driveway that day; greatly limiting who might have committed the crime.

There is an old dependable police trick. You approach a POI with information to the effect that you know he did it. You you imply, suggest or outright lie that you have evidence you do not (perfectly legal) and plead with the POI that the "gig is up", "your going down", make it easy on yourself" etc. This approach works best when the POI has never been "in the system" before. Many confessions are obtained this way (although a few "false confessions" are also obtained). Even if the POI does not confess, he might feel it necessary to change details of his original version of events, furnish verifiable untruths or otherwise say something or behave in a manner that might advance the investigation.

An extreme version of this includes disclosing information to the media that will encourage public perception that the POI is guilty. The obvious problem with this approach is that there is really no way to "clear" the POI if he stands by his story and does not confess.

The issue of what evidence and information to disclose is pretty dicey. Law Enforcement always wants any perp to believe they have more that they really do but releasing information and evidence can also encourage people to come forward with additional information. Releasing information that points in a particular direction might discourage information that might point in a different direction. Generally, they will be very up front with the sort of information/evidence that is rock solid but much more careful if they were not so certain.

I would expect that compelling evidence that no vehicle was used in the abduction would be well worth publicizing since is would focus all suspicion on DR (and perhaps a few other close neighbors) and anyone with "significant" information would be likely to come forward. This would also have the effect of pretty well "clearing" anyone who would have needed a vehicle. It would tend to discourage any forthcoming information on any of them.

From what I can tell, there were some media reports that once Kevin came forward, Law Enforcement was operating on the assumption that no vehicle was used and DR was the prime Suspect. Was this really "true" or was it all part of the "full court press" on DR. Since then, news reports don't seem to dwell on DR and are not so focused on the "no car" theory.
 
Initially in my research (fairly new to researching this case) I thought DR could be the abductor, but as I read more, I lean AGAINST that theory.

Sheriff Kostreba stated in one of the videos that "they..or he (cant remember which) felt like a failure as they haven't solved the case." I strongly wondered to myself, are they going after DR, JUST to close the case? (cover their reputation as LE) It's happened that way before, or even due to political matters.
 
Some posters on this site seem to believe that there must be some very significant evidence against DR, otherwise they would not have investigated him so thoroughly. It has been suggested that this "evidence" might include proof that no "mystery" vehicle went up that driveway that day; greatly limiting who might have committed the crime.

There is an old dependable police trick. You approach a POI with information to the effect that you know he did it. You you imply, suggest or outright lie that you have evidence you do not (perfectly legal) and plead with the POI that the "gig is up", "your going down", make it easy on yourself" etc. This approach works best when the POI has never been "in the system" before. Many confessions are obtained this way (although a few "false confessions" are also obtained). Even if the POI does not confess, he might feel it necessary to change details of his original version of events, furnish verifiable untruths or otherwise say something or behave in a manner that might advance the investigation.

An extreme version of this includes disclosing information to the media that will encourage public perception that the POI is guilty. The obvious problem with this approach is that there is really no way to "clear" the POI if he stands by his story and does not confess.

The issue of what evidence and information to disclose is pretty dicey. Law Enforcement always wants any perp to believe they have more that they really do but releasing information and evidence can also encourage people to come forward with additional information. Releasing information that points in a particular direction might discourage information that might point in a different direction. Generally, they will be very up front with the sort of information/evidence that is rock solid but much more careful if they were not so certain.

I would expect that compelling evidence that no vehicle was used in the abduction would be well worth publicizing since is would focus all suspicion on DR (and perhaps a few other close neighbors) and anyone with "significant" information would be likely to come forward. This would also have the effect of pretty well "clearing" anyone who would have needed a vehicle. It would tend to discourage any forthcoming information on any of them.

From what I can tell, there were some media reports that once Kevin came forward, Law Enforcement was operating on the assumption that no vehicle was used and DR was the prime Suspect. Was this really "true" or was it all part of the "full court press" on DR. Since then, news reports don't seem to dwell on DR and are not so focused on the "no car" theory.

Sure, that makes sense.

But please explain the hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars expended on digging up that farm and sifting through the stuff they dug up.

Please explain how they got a judge to sign off on a search warrant the next day to enter the home.

Interesting how DR so fits other perps who taunt LE and keep clippings of the crime. Seems like that happens almost 100% of the time
 
If they are genuinely under the impression that DR is guilty, that would explain the hundreds of thousands spent, etc. They could be genuinely mistaken though.

And a farm right on the spot where Jacob was abducted is an obvious place to search, regardless of whether or not the people in the house are viable suspects. No problem seeing why a judge would sign off on a search warrant. There could be any amount of evidence on that land, Jacob was abducted at the end of their driveway.

And DR is not the only person who has kept clippings of this case.

How has DR taunted LE?
 
This man was arrested in St Paul in 1997 for molesting a young boy. He had told the boy about a body hidden at Fort Snelling, and also talked about Jacob Wetterling's abduction. (Source: 8/14/97 St Cloud Times)

He worked as a paramedic, but also traveled the state of MN as a first aid instructor from 1975 - 1997.

Got me to thinking about the medical cop from Kevin's story....


http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=95417537
 
I agree, I never have understood why they were so quick to eliminate a vehicle.

I'd like to know if the tracks were straight up the middle of the driveway, or did they at least go in a straight line and then vanish....or did they veer off towards the edge and then into the grass??

It just seems logical to use a vehicle, unless you were going straight to DR's farm. If the perp took him info the grass/field area and walked a ways, you'd think there would have been some sort of evidence found (flatten vegetation, clothing snagged, etc)

BBM

"Push downs" would have been evident to the trained eye.

I am guessing they did not even know to look for this, even though trained SAR folks knew about that evidence in the late 70's.
 
Sure, that makes sense.

But please explain the hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars expended on digging up that farm and sifting through the stuff they dug up.

Please explain how they got a judge to sign off on a search warrant the next day to enter the home.

Interesting how DR so fits other perps who taunt LE and keep clippings of the crime. Seems like that happens almost 100% of the time

Human,
Do you know, for a fact, that " hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars expended on digging up that farm and sifting through the stuff they dug up." or are you just speculating? Either way, when there is enough public pressure to solve a case, LE will certainly be able to spend whatever they can get authorization for to follow up any lead, if all other leads have dried up. It seems reasonable that DR became a serious suspect once Kevin came forward and thorough investigation of his possible involvement was justified. We can hardly infer that because someone was a "serious suspect" whose possible involvement warranted an expensive investigation, that he "must" be guilty. The exact opposite might be inferred: After "hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars were spent" and nothing was found, wouldn'tthat tend to establish his innocence?
 
Initially in my research (fairly new to researching this case) I thought DR could be the abductor, but as I read more, I lean AGAINST that theory.

Sheriff Kostreba stated in one of the videos that "they..or he (cant remember which) felt like a failure as they haven't solved the case." I strongly wondered to myself, are they going after DR, JUST to close the case? (cover their reputation as LE) It's happened that way before, or even due to political matters.

I have discussed this before. DR is an upstanding member of the community whose parents are involved in all kinds of church activities.

Have you seen all of the other crazy sex offenders that people have listed on here? And they keep finding more and more and more.

To choose DR as a scapegoat when there are so many other delicious choices is totally crazy.

There has to be huge reasons why DR has been named a POI.

If LE wanted to look like they are doing something, they would choose a far more possible suspect. They appear to have a smorgasbord of choices.

But to scapegoat DR? Um, no
 
Sheriff Kostreba stated in one of the videos that "they..or he (cant remember which) felt like a failure as they haven't solved the case." I strongly wondered to myself, are they going after DR, JUST to close the case? (cover their reputation as LE) It's happened that way before, or even due to political matters.

I wondered that as well, because according to DR, they also sat him down and outright asked him to confess so they could wrap up and close the case. I'm sure that was partly strategy (as a method to actually get him to confess)...but maybe also partly desperation. They look like failures for not being able to solve this. It's been 24 years, for pete's sake.
 
Human,
Do you know, for a fact, that " hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars expended on digging up that farm and sifting through the stuff they dug up." or are you just speculating? Either way, when there is enough public pressure to solve a case, LE will certainly be able to spend whatever they can get authorization for to follow up any lead, if all other leads have dried up. It seems reasonable that DR became a serious suspect once Kevin came forward and thorough investigation of his possible involvement was justified. We can hardly infer that because someone was a "serious suspect" whose possible involvement warranted an expensive investigation, that he "must" be guilty. The exact opposite might be inferred: After "hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars were spent" and nothing was found, wouldn'tthat tend to establish his innocence?

No, I do not have a copy of the bill. Just figuring it out for the cost of backhoes, personnel , and the sifting of the materials at the BCI. Then the analyzing.

What do you think the cost of that would be?

I did not read that DR was no longer a POI? Did you? I read that they were keeping materials for further analysis as we advance in the world of science.

Minnesota is looking at releasing civilly committed sex offenders , one of the reasons being cost. It is considered unsustainable.

So, you feel that releasing someone the equivalent of DAH into society is not based on lack of funds? And yes, I am quite aware of who is in Moose Lake State hospital. DAH is a sweetheart compared to some. For instance, raping toddlers. No problem, according to the perps.

Look out Minnesota. These darlings can be coming to a neighborhood near you soon.
 
I have discussed this before. DR is an upstanding member of the community whose parents are involved in all kinds of church activities.

Have you seen all of the other crazy sex offenders that people have listed on here? And they keep finding more and more and more.

To choose DR as a scapegoat when there are so many other delicious choices is totally crazy.

There has to be huge reasons why DR has been named a POI.

If LE wanted to look like they are doing something, they would choose a far more possible suspect. They appear to have a smorgasbord of choices.

But to scapegoat DR? Um, no

We have differing opinions on this I guess. (anything is possible).

I am not sure what your point was saying his "parents are involved in all kinds of church activities." ???
 
I wondered that as well, because according to DR, they also sat him down and outright asked him to confess so they could wrap up and close the case. I'm sure that was partly strategy (as a method to actually get him to confess)...but maybe also partly desperation. They look like failures for not being able to solve this. It's been 24 years, for pete's sake.

I'm sure they're well aware that they look like failures. They haven't had any more luck than we have had here on WS solving this case. I don't think that makes us failures. Both LE and all of us are still working to try and solve this case.

At least they've admitted they made plenty of mistakes in the beginning. Hindsight is always so much better, isn't it?
 
I'm sure they're well aware that they look like failures. They haven't had any more luck than we have had here on WS solving this case. I don't think that makes us failures. Both LE and all of us are still working to try and solve this case.

At least they've admitted they made plenty of mistakes in the beginning. Hindsight is always so much better, isn't it?

I think LE admitted they lost the local case pretty quicky but even with hindsight this is a perplexing case. I think Sherrif Sanner even admitted his sense of 'failure' in not solving the case but was not giving up. It HAS been 24 years and LE with all of their resources have not been able to solve the case so I wonder how can sleuthers on WS solve it? Well, it appears to me there are some professionals on WS with some serious sleuthing abilities and it is my hope that eventually there will be that one break that is needed to solve the puzzle. Hopefully sooner rather than later. As of late, I have been simply reading WS + other sources and not posting as I have nothing more to add of substance. Some characteristics of the WS forum on Jacob's abduction I've noticed + appreciate are:
1. The posters are doggedly determined
2. Posters are decent in their remarks and genuinely concerned for the truth as well as empathically concerned for Jacob and his family.
3. Posters are always willing to carry the ball forward when other posters are in a dry spell.

Despite my opinions rendered on WS I am open to all possibilities + theories. Holding one's preconceptions/theories at bay while researching available evidence is not easy to do-everything eventually must be proven and this case has way too many possibilities(some more plausible than others). Hopefully all of this information gathered will paint a picture that will lead to the truth.
 
I think LE admitted they lost the local case pretty quicky but even with hindsight this is a perplexing case. I think Sherrif Sanner even admitted his sense of 'failure' in not solving the case but was not giving up. It HAS been 24 years and LE with all of their resources have not been able to solve the case so I wonder how can sleuthers on WS solve it? Well, it appears to me there are some professionals on WS with some serious sleuthing abilities and it is my hope that eventually there will be that one break that is needed to solve the puzzle. Hopefully sooner rather than later. As of late, I have been simply reading WS + other sources and not posting as I have nothing more to add of substance. Some characteristics of the WS forum on Jacob's abduction I've noticed + appreciate are:
1. The posters are doggedly determined
2. Posters are decent in their remarks and genuinely concerned for the truth as well as empathically concerned for Jacob and his family.
3. Posters are always willing to carry the ball forward when other posters are in a dry spell.

Despite my opinions rendered on WS I am open to all possibilities + theories. Holding one's preconceptions/theories at bay while researching available evidence is not easy to do-everything eventually must be proven and this case has way too many possibilities(some more plausible than others). Hopefully all of this information gathered will paint a picture that will lead to the truth.

I keep wondering that if I had a chance to look at all the photographs of foot prints and tire prints pre-horse/ATC/other vehicles, I might be able to find the proverbial "fly poop in the pepper".... All my verbal and email request to the Sheriff have been for naught.
 
ELOC, are you able to post the St Cloud Times article?

I'll post the article this weekend - trying to do it now but having problems with attachments on WS.
 
On Joy's latest blog there is some very interesting comments, speculations, + theories by 'DUKE' with a final appreciative comment by JARED. Both worth reading.
 
ELOCsoul: Did you find any other articles where they might have followed up on this guy at all?
 
I was just reading this blog by "Nadine" on Jacob. It has some major errors in it, but is still interesting to read.
http://lightingtheirwayhome.wordpre...tober-22-1989-usmcc000001-updated-05-04-2013/

There are also some strange comments at the end by a man who claims to have been a cop working on Jacob's case. (Doubtful, since he has his facts wrong.) He does come up with a tidbit I've never heard before though.

Nadine also mentions Seitz. I've seen various articles on Seitz before, but I don't recall ever reading that he had a map of Millstream Park. I wonder if that is accurate and if it was marked up at all?

From the article...
"It was quickly apparent that Seitz seemed to have taken on quite the obsession with one boy in particular. That boy – was Jacob Wetterling. Authorities found video footage of Jacob before he went missing, maps of Jacob’s hometown, and many posters and laminated photos of Jacob. They also discovered a map of Millstream Park, which was near the spot where Jacob was abducted. Authorities were shocked when they discovered that Seitz had actually approached Patty while the search for Jacob was going on. He claimed to be a psychic who was abducted as a child and who offered families of missing children his services. Patty declined his ‘help’, but records place Seitz in the area for the following two weeks after Jacob was abducted."
 
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