MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #8

[ELOCsoul]

Did you mean Kay's Kitchen? If so, that is apparently where the boy whose jacket was ripped off was attacked, but I haven't found the street address yet.

~ svh

This attempted abduction you are referring to here....please provide details and source if information.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Sigrun]

There is no footprints of the perpetrator entering a vehicle. Its only of a person walking behind Jacob and then pulling him back into the ditch and into the farm. If a vehicle is involved the footprints I'm looking for have to exist and they aren't there. DR had been aware of "lovers lane" all his life, he knew to make it look like Jacob was taken from there in a vehicle.

Wow Sasquatch, I was totally with you all the way up to the word "ditch". I agree, no footprints showing a conventional entry into a vehicle; walking behind the victim, yes. So what is it in the footprints that tells you they moved toward the ditch? You might of explained this but I'm searching through like 10,000 posts so apologies.

~ svh

 

[Sigrun]

http://www.kayskitchen.us/map.html

Thanks Camille. I assume it's the same as it was in 1989 then?
~ svh

 

[Sigrun]

This attempted abduction you are referring to here....please provide details and source if information.

Thanks in advance.

Sure. Don't know if it was an "abduction" attempt, but sounds like an attack at least. I think it was actually your post here. Here's the quote:

"There were a total of three kidnap attempts in the St Joseph area in 1989: "J", whose kidnapping attempt is documented in a previous post with newspaper scans; the second was the boy who ran into Kay's kitchen after breaking free from his jacket; the third was Jacob.

My point is, after previous abduction attempts, why were law enforcement not better prepared to handle Jacob's kidnapping when that occurred? Stearns County didn't even notify the city of St Joseph police after J's attempt. That is especially frustrating in light of Jared's kidnapping in January.

In the case of "J" the abductor asked his age, much like in Jacob's case. I do not have newspaper articles for the boy that ran into Kay's Kitchen... That case has been previously mentioned on Websleuths, and I have found information from other sources about this."

Was that you? You can find it by searching the forum under "Kay's Kictchen".

~ svh

 

[Sasquatch321]

Wow Sasquatch, I was totally with you all the way up to the word "ditch". I agree, no footprints showing a conventional entry into a vehicle; walking behind the victim, yes. So what is it in the footprints that tells you they moved toward the ditch? You might of explained this but I'm searching through like 10,000 posts so apologies.

~ svh

My theory is that DR and Jacob walked along the side of the gravel driveway until DR commanded Jacob to step into the driveway, he then picked him up and DR backstepped back into the grass, and they headed towards the farm.

In Shergals photobucket, picture no. 7, no footprints in front of Jacobs indicating anyone entering a vehicle, except Jacob. The footprint is planted.

 

[human]

I don't know where I read it, but the Hubers had no sewage system and animals such as chickens lived in the house.

Can you imagine the odors that would be emanating from these people?

And any car they had would be filthy as well

 

[Sigrun]

My theory is that DR and Jacob walked along the side of the gravel driveway until DR commanded Jacob to step into the driveway, he then picked him up and DR backstepped back into the grass, and they headed towards the farm.

In Shergals photobucket, picture no. 7, no footprints in front of Jacobs indicating anyone entering a vehicle, except Jacob. The footprint is planted.

You might be right. Let me verify that I have all the assumptions for this we need:

1. DR chose to plant a footprint (to exculpate the resident, himself)
2. Footprints leading into and out of the driveway are not there because they just didn't take, for whatever reason
3. The only way to enter the car is with the perpetrator's footprints leading the victim's? This assumption, to me, is tantamount to assuming no one else was in the car.

~ svh

 

[Sasquatch321]

You might be right. Let me verify that I have all the assumptions for this we need:

1. DR chose to plant a footprint (to exculpate the resident, himself)
2. Footprints leading into and out of the driveway are not there because they just didn't take, for whatever reason
3. The only way to enter the car is with the perpetrator's footprints leading the victim's? This assumption, to me, is tantamount to assuming no one else was in the car.

~ svh

Jacobs last footprint in all its glorious definition is there, right before the tire tread. Tell me, where is the perpetrators size 10 to 13 black boot, twisting its foot into the gravel, as he turns sideways and sits down to enter the vehicle. its not there, but what I do see there is someone following Jacob.

 

[Sigrun]

My theory is that DR and Jacob walked along the side of the gravel driveway until DR commanded Jacob to step into the driveway, he then picked him up and DR backstepped back into the grass, and they headed towards the farm.

In Shergals photobucket, picture no. 7, no footprints in front of Jacobs indicating anyone entering a vehicle, except Jacob. The footprint is planted.

Sasquatch, I should probably explain what I mean on point 3 a little more. My dad told me it was a "cool thing" to do back in the day to sit on the driver side window (when it's down) with your back against the door jamb, then lift and swing your legs into the car. People would do this with open top cars. If the perpetrator stands behind the jamb and sits down his last step could be behind the jamb, behind JEW's. A person already in the car could lift JEW from the driver's seat and move over. And this is the fastest way to get both in the car. With a pickup truck, yes, I can see your point. He would need to step ahead of JEW.

 

[Sigrun]

Jacobs last footprint in all its glorious definition is there, right before the tire tread. Tell me, where is the perpetrators size 10 to 13 black boot, twisting its foot into the gravel, as he turns sideways and sits down to enter the vehicle. its not there, but what I do see there is someone following Jacob.

Agreed. See my previous post. He wouldn't need to grind his foot at all, and it would be left behind JEW's.

~ svh

 

[Sasquatch321]

Sasquatch, I should probably explain what I mean on point 3 a little more. My dad told me it was a "cool thing" to do back in the day to sit on the driver side window (when it's down) with your back against the door jamb, then lift and swing your legs into the car. People would do this with open top cars. If the perpetrator stands behind the jamb and sits down his last step could be behind the jamb, behind JEW's. A person already in the car could lift JEW from the driver's seat and move over. And this is the fastest way to get both in the car. With a pickup truck, yes, I can see your point. He would need to step ahead of JEW.

All tire tracks were accounted for in 2004. Show me the footprint evidence of the perpetrator.

 

[human]

Huber farm auction

http://www.vanderbrinkauctions.com/auction_images/134/documents/Flyer.pdf

 

[Sigrun]

All tire tracks were accounted for in 2004. Show me the footprint evidence of the perpetrator.

You bring up two points.
First sentence:
And the only person accounted as there was Kevin and girlfriend in his open top Grand Prix.
Second sentence:
Are you suggesting there was no perpetrator anywhere near the last impression of JEW? I think your last objection applies to either narrative, right? If the impression was faked, how far away from JEW was the perpetrator standing when he commanded it?

The first point also seems less than likely because a perpetrator is primarily concerned with two things in the commission of a serious crime; flight and destruction of evidence. Destruction of evidence is usually secondary to flight. At this point, the perpetrator, whoever it was, was in the stage of flight.

I'm only looking at what is in the driveway right now, so maybe DR is the perpetrator. Can't say yet.

~ svh

 

[human]

More info on farm auction Huber

http://www.agweek.com/event/auctionsDetail/id/3997/property_id/1/

 

[Ifollowthis]

Huber farm auction

http://www.vanderbrinkauctions.com/auction_images/134/documents/Flyer.pdf

Thanks I was looking for this, Vanderbrinks drop off sale bills at various public places, I remembered seeing one at our office. I wonder what type of cars the various cars were, maybe Vanderbrinks have more pictures than are on the sale bill. There were 4 trailer homes on the auction to be sold as scrap.

 

[human]

Thanks I was looking for this, Vanderbrinks drop off sale bills at various public places, I remembered seeing one at our office. I wonder what type of cars the various cars were, maybe Vanderbrinks have more pictures than are on the sale bill. There were 4 trailer homes on the auction to be sold as scrap.

Look at the next one. No cars. Just scrap

 

[Sasquatch321]

You bring up two points.
First sentence:
And the only person accounted as there was Kevin and girlfriend in his open top Grand Prix.
Second sentence:
Are you suggesting there was no perpetrator anywhere near the last impression of JEW? I think your last objection applies to either narrative, right? If the impression was faked, how far away from JEW was the perpetrator standing when he commanded it?

The first point also seems less than likely because a perpetrator is primarily concerned with two things in the commission of a serious crime; flight and destruction of evidence. Destruction of evidence is usually secondary to flight. At this point, the perpetrator, whoever it was, was in the stage of flight.

I'm only looking at what is in the driveway right now, so maybe DR is the perpetrator. Can't say yet.

~ mvh

I appreciate you allowing me to catch you up in this diffucult case and discussion. For 14 years LE and the FBI had a set of tire tracks they couldnt account for, they let go of the local aspect altogether. In 2093 a man came forward and says the tire tracks were made by him and his girlfriend. For the next six years they take a look at DR. In 2009 they execute a search warrant on his farm and find his shrine of newspaper clippings, recorded news stories, and a journal pointing out the errors of LE. After the search is concluded, LE makes the decision to name DR a POI/Suspect.

Now surely we can keep the old theory open for discussion, but what is concretely supporting it.

 

[Sigrun]

I appreciate you allowing me to catch you up in this diffucult case and discussion. For 14 years LE and the FBI had a set of tire tracks they couldnt account for, they let go of the local aspect altogether. In 2093 a man came forward and says the tire tracks were made by him and his girlfriend. For the next six years they take a look at DR. In 2009 they execute a search warrant on his farm and find his shrine of newspaper clippings, recorded news stories, and a journal pointing out the errors of LE. After the search is concluded, LE makes the decision to name DR a POI/Suspect.

Now surely we can keep the old theory open for discussion, but what is concretely supporting it.

I think it is more like me trying to catch up to you and others. I do think the tracks in the driveway strongly support Kevin's story, he just didn't come forward until 2003 but the chronology of his story might be off by a few minutes and he might have left out some details. On the other hand, JEW might have been abducted by a runner. And the fact that he did not see any reason to discard JEW's reflective vest suggests to me that his flight was a sprint and not a duration run. Therefore, I'd expect his destination to be somewhere within 300 meters of the last foot impression of JEW. So, looking at this just from the driveway, right now I see two more or less equally viable directions to go. But I have not looked at as much as you have, so who knows?

Having said all this, my specialty is psychology and I haven't even gotten to that yet. If he faked an impression this would be a treasure trove of information about the personality responsible. In the DR "narrative" I could say this:

The same personality that posed a nonsensical question to JEW and two minor witnesses is the same personality that harbored a magical belief in his or her ability to abduct an 11 year old at the foot of his or her own driveway and not be suspected of the act.

The same personality that transmitted disinformation to the authorities is the same personality that chose to abduct a minor in the presence of two other minors.

The same personality that designed this disinformation is the same personality that found not only utility but wild humor in the act itself.

So, there is already a whisper in my mind of a personality that enjoys deception and finds dark humor in it, and which I gather solely from the crime scene, so your fake impression theory is not all that far-fetched. I'm just not ready to hang on to the analysis above yet.

~ svh

 

[ELOCsoul]

Sure. Don't know if it was an "abduction" attempt, but sounds like an attack at least. I think it was actually your post here. Here's the quote:

"There were a total of three kidnap attempts in the St Joseph area in 1989: "J", whose kidnapping attempt is documented in a previous post with newspaper scans; the second was the boy who ran into Kay's kitchen after breaking free from his jacket; the third was Jacob.

My point is, after previous abduction attempts, why were law enforcement not better prepared to handle Jacob's kidnapping when that occurred? Stearns County didn't even notify the city of St Joseph police after J's attempt. That is especially frustrating in light of Jared's kidnapping in January.

In the case of "J" the abductor asked his age, much like in Jacob's case. I do not have newspaper articles for the boy that ran into Kay's Kitchen... That case has been previously mentioned on Websleuths, and I have found information from other sources about this."

Was that you? You can find it by searching the forum under "Kay's Kictchen".

~ svh

Yes, I somewhat regret that part of the post. I generally follow a rule that I only post something if I find it in a legitimate news source, or if I hear information from at least two credible sources. In the case of this particular "attempt", I only had one credible source. But, I thought that I had remembered reading about the "attempt" at Kay's Kitchen before. However I could not locate that information.

Thank you for your reply!

 

[Sigrun]

Yes, I somewhat regret that part of the post. I generally follow a rule that I only post something if I find it in a legitimate news source, or if I hear information from at least two credible sources. In the case of this particular "attempt", I only had one credible source. But, I thought that I had remembered reading about the "attempt" at Kay's Kitchen before. However I could not locate that information.

Thank you for your reply!

At some point I might find it important to resolve that question. However, for me, right now it is not an important detail. If Kevin was indeed at his girlfriend's mother's house when this went down then where that house is would matter more to me. And that is especially true if the boy's route took them down Minnesota Street east to Tom Thumb's. Then I'd want to know if they were visible from that house (the quote was that it was near Tom Thumbs, which appears to be in the opposite direction). Then I might wonder if his "visit" to Tom Thumbs occurred at a slightly different time than he stated. The description makes it sound like they rode right in front of the house.

If the other report about who was there is accurate, it sounds like the alibi for Kevin and his girlfriend is built around a circle of wagons involving their relatives. I wonder if there is something more to his alibi.

~ svh