Found Deceased MN - Madeline Jane Kingsbury, 26, mother of 2, Winona, 31 Mar 2023 *arrest* #2

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Why, then, would MN take the kids? Baby daddy is the acknowledged, well, baby daddy, right? He lived in the same house. The kids have his last name. Nobody disputes that he is the baby daddy. Well, it turns out MN agrees he is the father. That doesn't mean he has custody.

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youarentsilly said:
Why, then, would MN take the kids? Baby daddy is the acknowledged, well, baby daddy, right? He lived in the same house. The kids have his last name. Nobody disputes that he is the baby daddy. Well, it turns out MN agrees he is the father. That doesn't mean he has custody.

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From what the news articles have said, MN put in a 72-hour hold to encourage the two sides (Maddie's family and AF) to work out an arrangement. That didn't happen, so MN removed the kids from AF's parents' house. If the parents aren't married, the custody is with the mother, by default, and her whereabouts are unknown. At least that's how i understand the situation.
 
youarentsilly said:
Why, then, would MN take the kids? Baby daddy is the acknowledged, well, baby daddy, right? He lived in the same house. The kids have his last name. Nobody disputes that he is the baby daddy. Well, it turns out MN agrees he is the father. That doesn't mean he has custody.

View attachment 419661
Click to expand...
Think we'll have to agree to disagree on this. Just because he is babies daddy, just because they have his last name, just because he lived in the same house. Doesn't mean he has custodial rights. When SS went to the home, he ran into his parents home locked the door refusing to let them have the kids. He then refused to give them any clothes or favorite items to take to make the transition easier for the kids. The momma is gone, something has happened to her. Kids have no idea what is happening & daddy dearest refuses to let them have anything! Show me where that was in the kids best interest? It wasn't! There are 2 sides to every story. The kids are safe, thats what's important. We have yet to hear what has happened to Maddi.
 
(ABC 6 News) – A prayer vigil for missing Winona mother, Madeline Kingsbury, is planned for Friday night in Winona.

“Shining a Light for Madeline” community gathering and prayer service will take place at Veterans Memorial Park beginning at 7:30 p.m. In the event of inclement weather the event will be moved to First Congregational Church in Winona.

Over the last month, law enforcement has used sonar to look in waterways, combed fields and searched the sides of roadways. Hundreds of community volunteers have also participated in several organized searches looking for Kingsbury.

“We’re doing different types of searches every day, following up on tips we received,” said Ben Klinger, emergency management coordinator for the Winona County Sheriff’s Office.

Klinger explains law enforcement are keeping all avenues surrounding Madeline Kingsbury’s disappearance open and urge land owners in the Winona, Houston and Fillmore County area to check their property for any signs of disturbance or suspicious activity.

For more coverage on the disappearance of Madeline Kingsbury, CLICK HERE.
 
cheko1 said:
Think we'll have to agree to disagree on this. Just because he is babies daddy, just because they have his last name, just because he lived in the same house. Doesn't mean he has custodial rights. When SS went to the home, he ran into his parents home locked the door refusing to let them have the kids. He then refused to give them any clothes or favorite items to take to make the transition easier for the kids. The momma is gone, something has happened to her. Kids have no idea what is happening & daddy dearest refuses to let them have anything! Show me where that was in the kids best interest? It wasn't! There are 2 sides to every story. The kids are safe, thats what's important. We have yet to hear what has happened to Maddi.
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We've been over this so many times, to me it's clear - but not worth debating when so few facts are known at this time.
The kids are always the biggest losers, I can't imagine how upside down their world must feel right now :confused:
 
youarentsilly said:
Why, then, would MN take the kids? Baby daddy is the acknowledged, well, baby daddy, right? He lived in the same house. The kids have his last name. Nobody disputes that he is the baby daddy. Well, it turns out MN agrees he is the father. That doesn't mean he has custody.

View attachment 419661
Click to expand...
The issue of why CPS was allowed to initially take custody keeps coming up. I'm an attorney so I'm going to take a crack at explaining it as It is 100% a legal issue not a fitness as a parent issue or biological parent issue (until Adam filed for custody, then the issue of fitness/DNA comes in).

Family law from state to state varies tremendously (see my last paragraph as to why I know a bit about family law). Minnesota has a provision that I have never seen in any state. When a couple is married, the husband is the legal father (until proven otherwise, i.e. a DNA test). When the couple is unmarried, there is NO legal father and unmarried fathers must first establish paternity, also referred to as parentage, before being considered a child's legal father.

We can have our opinions about whether this is right or wrong but that is the law. Because Adam did not establish paternity, he had no legal rights as a parent. He is not on the birth certificate. Because he had no legal rights the only one with legal rights was the mother Madeline. In other words, in MN, because there was not establishment of parentage by Adam, once Madeline was missing the kids were, legally, orphans. Which made CPS the legal guardians of these children. That does not mean that Adam could not file for paternity or parentage but now the hill is much steeper because he has to prove he is a fit father whereas before, he could have signed a piece of paper and he would have had custody and the state would have to prove he is unfit.

I'm not sure why he didn't do this. I was in a similar situation over a decade ago - no legal rights to my children. Within days of their births I filed for second parent adoption to establish my parentage because my wife and I wanted to make sure that a situation such as this did not happen - death or incapacity of the only legal parent resulting in the other parent having no legal rights. I am in a same-sex couple. I adopted the two children my wife had and she adopted the child I had (this was pre-legalization of same-sex marriage). As for how much family law varies - the first two adoptions were in California. The adoptions were so easy that I did them myself without an outside attorney. The third adoption, in New Jersey, was so complicated and required an explicit waiver of parental rights from the bio-father/sperm donor, that we had to hire an attorney even though I am an attorney.

Sorry for the long post - I hope it helps in understanding! MN is an outlier on the parentage issue.
 
momsof3 said:
The issue of why CPS was allowed to initially take custody keeps coming up. I'm an attorney so I'm going to take a crack at explaining it as It is 100% a legal issue not a fitness as a parent issue or biological parent issue (until Adam filed for custody, then the issue of fitness/DNA comes in).

Family law from state to state varies tremendously (see my last paragraph as to why I know a bit about family law). Minnesota has a provision that I have never seen in any state. When a couple is married, the husband is the legal father (until proven otherwise, i.e. a DNA test). When the couple is unmarried, there is NO legal father and unmarried fathers must first establish paternity, also referred to as parentage, before being considered a child's legal father.

We can have our opinions about whether this is right or wrong but that is the law. Because Adam did not establish paternity, he had no legal rights as a parent. He is not on the birth certificate. Because he had no legal rights the only one with legal rights was the mother Madeline. In other words, in MN, because there was not establishment of parentage by Adam, once Madeline was missing the kids were, legally, orphans. Which made CPS the legal guardians of these children. That does not mean that Adam could not file for paternity or parentage but now the hill is much steeper because he has to prove he is a fit father whereas before, he could have signed a piece of paper and he would have had custody and the state would have to prove he is unfit.

I'm not sure why he didn't do this. I was in a similar situation over a decade ago - no legal rights to my children. Within days of their births I filed for second parent adoption to establish my parentage because my wife and I wanted to make sure that a situation such as this did not happen - death or incapacity of the only legal parent resulting in the other parent having no legal rights. I am in a same-sex couple. I adopted the two children my wife had and she adopted the child I had (this was pre-legalization of same-sex marriage). As for how much family law varies - the first two adoptions were in California. The adoptions were so easy that I did them myself without an outside attorney. The third adoption, in New Jersey, was so complicated and required an explicit waiver of parental rights from the bio-father/sperm donor, that we had to hire an attorney even though I am an attorney.

Sorry for the long post - I hope it helps in understanding! MN is an outlier on the parentage issue.
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To build on this a bit, Adam is the adjudicated father based on that paperwork (it appears that he may have signed a ROP after all) but did not have custody or parenting time (likely thought there was no reason to seek either when in a relationship with Maddi and raising the children together). In MN, being named on the birth certificate does not establish legal fatherhood and does not confer any rights or obligations. He has standing to request custody/parenting time since he has been adjudicated.

It’s not clearly laid out in the CHIPS Petition, but the circumstances of Maddi’s disappearance appear to make petitioners concerned for the children’s safety. Removal is heavy-handed (while technically compliant with the statute, absent other safety concerns, it could be difficult to justify removing children from a legal parent they’ve spent their life with because he doesn’t have a custody order).

MOO, of course, but I find it unlikely that custody, parenting time, or child support were motives if AF harmed Maddi.
 
Winona Police Department

Please see the map below for parking areas for the Shine a Light for Madeline event on Friday, May 5th. In addition to the marked parking lots, on-street parking will be available. Handicap parking will be available in the south bandshell lot. It will be easiest to enter the park from Huff Street or Main Street. Please join us in supporting Madeline’s family and Shine a Light for Madeline.


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cheko1 said:
Think we'll have to agree to disagree on this. Just because he is babies daddy, just because they have his last name, just because he lived in the same house. Doesn't mean he has custodial rights. When SS went to the home, he ran into his parents home locked the door refusing to let them have the kids. He then refused to give them any clothes or favorite items to take to make the transition easier for the kids. The momma is gone, something has happened to her. Kids have no idea what is happening & daddy dearest refuses to let them have anything! Show me where that was in the kids best interest? It wasn't! There are 2 sides to every story. The kids are safe, thats what's important. We have yet to hear what has happened to Maddi.
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Ita.
Re. the bolded : These are not the actions of a caring parent.
Also, the fact that he ran to his parents when feeling the heat makes me go Hmmm.......
Had they enabled him before this ?

Has AF had any assistance from anyone at all, for his current 'predicament' (this is how I feel he is thinking regarding Madaline's disappearance) ?
For Madaline's family, I am sorry for the nightmare they are enduring !

What is chilling is if this case grows cold, he may very well get those kids and it's a safe bet that Madaline's family may never see those kids again if the paternal side forbids visitation.
Imo.


Where are you, Madaline ?
 
Last edited:
Erutan said:
Ita.
Re. the bolded : These are not the actions of a caring parent.
Also, the fact that he ran to his parents when feeling the heat makes me go Hmmm.......
Had they enabled him before this ?

Has AF had any assistance from anyone at all, for his current 'predicament' (this is how I feel he is thinking regarding Madaline's disappearance) ?
For Madaline's family, I am sorry for the nightmare they are enduring !

What is chilling is if this case grows cold, he may very well get those kids and it's a safe bet that Madaline's family may never see those kids again if the paternal side forbids visitation.
Imo.


Where are you, Madaline ?
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Agreed! And the fact, imho, that none of the family are engaging in the memorials, tmk, tells a lot about choosing sides, which, i believe, shouldnt be an issue in times like these.

Im disappointed that so much time has past, i understand it, but my heart breaks for her family.
 
Erutan said:
What is chilling is if this case grows cold, he may very well get those kids and it's a safe bet that Madaline's family may never see those kids again if the paternal side forbids visitation.
Imo.

Where are you, Madaline ?
Click to expand...
Not true, it appears Grandparents have rights in MN. Thank goodness and with Maddi's Father being an attorney, he should be able to navigate this well if necessary.

Minnesota Grandparents’ Rights Lawyer & Attorney​

In the state of Minnesota, grandparents are given some legal right to visitation with their grandchildren. If your child is deceased and you are being denied access to your grandchildren, you may go to court and request a set parenting time schedule as if you were the parent of the children. Otherwise, the court allows grandparents to seek visitation rights as an interested third party or de facto custodian.

 
Knox said:
Not true, it appears Grandparents have rights in MN. Thank goodness and with Maddi's Father being an attorney, he should be able to navigate this well if necessary.

Minnesota Grandparents’ Rights Lawyer & Attorney​

In the state of Minnesota, grandparents are given some legal right to visitation with their grandchildren. If your child is deceased and you are being denied access to your grandchildren, you may go to court and request a set parenting time schedule as if you were the parent of the children. Otherwise, the court allows grandparents to seek visitation rights as an interested third party or de facto custodian.

Click to expand...
Thanks for this, @Knox !

Makes me feel a bit better for her children.
If Madaline is gone forever, her children will be a comfort for her family.
 

Vigil held for missing Winona woman​

Hope and faith that a missing Winona mother comes home safe was strengthened inside a church filled with dozens of Madeline Kingsbury’s loved ones.

Due to rain, the vigil was held at the First Congressional Church of Winona. Those who spoke included Winona mayor Scott Sherman, who thanked everyone who has helped in the search for Kingsbury.

Friday marked five weeks since people have last seen or heard from Kingsbury.

A touching video was also played with pictures of Kingsbury throughout her life.

A group of Kingsbury’s sorority sisters joined together.

“She’s the most incredible, inspiring young woman I have ever had the pleasure of meeting,” one said while fighting back tears.

kstp.com

Vigil for missing Winona mother strengthens hope and faith in search

Friday marked five weeks since people have last seen or heard from Kingsbury.
kstp.com kstp.com

Video at link-
 
SimplyCass said:
Even if he had signed the ROP, it doesn't grant custodial rights or parenting time. And the law in MN is that if the parents are unmarried, the mother has custody, and they have to go to court to change that arrangement.

View attachment 419401
Does MN have family court records publicly available?
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Yes, Minnesota Court Records Online (MCRO) has public records, Search MN Public Records Free, but according to minnesotacourts.org, "Generally, court records are available to the public, but access to certain types of records and case information is limited by the MN Rules of Public Access. Case parties can view the details of their cases, but under the rules, some details may not be viewed by the general public.
 
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